[5h4d0w]

Today, I realized that the allegedly first laser projector (I don't keep up with digital projection technology, as it has been useless black point wise so far) was released.

People seem to be quite taken with it but as seems unfortunately usual, no concrete tests about the black point and contrast ratio yet:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00TZJ0XWW?vs=1

Is anybody here who has bought it already or knows someone who has one?

 

[AV_Integrated]

If you Google it, there are a number of reviews out there. I thought this one seemed pretty honest...

http://9to5mac.com/2015/01/30/review-cellulon-picopro-pico-projector/

To me, it seems like a general step forward, but nothing that special. The use of a long life battery that actually gets you through a movie (let's say while camping) is nice, but the brightness will limit any quality image to about a 50" or smaller diagonal, which is typical of projectors in that size category.

I'm not getting excited about this one nearly as much as the LG PF1500. Pico projectors have no real obvious use. They don't replace business projectors or home theater models. They are ideal for camping or perhaps travelling, but the brightness limitation holds them back severely.

 

[5h4d0w]

I've googled plenty. Like I said - I'm looking for tests about black point and contrast ratio. Those things can't be found on review sites. At least not for projectors => display device reviewing done right.

So the only chance I have is on a forum with many tech-savy people where many own colorimeters or at least the common sense (common for said tech-savy person) to test the black point in a darkened room, resolution accuracy with some sort of grid or line pattern, etc.
All that wishy-washy stuff in projector reviews like "the blacks look really rich" or "the image seems sharper than that of projector XYZ" just makes me feel like this: http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads...41670_937204_facepalm_implied_super_super.jpg

Still... thanks for the link.
At least there isn't any proof in there there that the blacks actually suck and he talks about them in a positive way. Even though it's still quite wishy-washy...

As for replacing home theater models... now that's quite a generalization. There are people to whom black is important. If that thing really does at least as well in blacks as a CRT projector, it'll certainly replace mine.

 

[5h4d0w]

I actually just managed to find sort of a black point demonstration:

If it's capable to produce such a relatively bright, borderless image, the blacks must be perfect.
I need this (well actually the PicoPro, not PicoAir) and I need it NOW.

 

[Mik James]

This whitepaper should give an idea of the contrast available if it is indeed using a microvision light engine: http://www.microvision.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/OPN_Article.pdf

It appears to be very crt like. If they don't sort out the issues with the Oculus Rift for high contrast/dark content then i'll probably pickup one of these projectors while I wait.

Here's an excerpt for anyone who doesn't like sifting through whitepapers:

"The essence of the design is that,
with the exception of the scanner, the
rest of the optics engine deals with
making a single pixel. All three lasers
are driven simultaneously at the levels
needed to create the proper color mix
for each pixel. This produces brilliant
images with the wide color gamut available
from RGB lasers.
Direct-driving of the lasers pixel-bypixel
at just the levels required brings
good power efficiency and inherently
high contrast. The efficiency is maximized,
since the lasers are only on at
the level needed for each pixel. The contrast
is high because the lasers are completely
off for black pixels rather than
using an SLM (spatial light modulator)
to deflect or absorb any excess intensity."

 

[Verge2]

Give me 300 lumens, scan lines and infinite blacks, sure.


But 30?

And based off how the display works, why is contrast only 80k?

 

[Mik James]

Probably because contrast specs are meaningless. Perhaps they are just being honest for a change, it isn't a very bright display after all so the contrast could only be so high even if it has perfect black.
The reviews indicate fair performance on your average white wall at 50"-60" screen for dark room viewing,
With a higher gain maybe that can be pushed to 70"-80".
The important thing to note is the reviews don't really place it at the 30 lumen spec for perceived brightness.

Definitely niche but it's a good start

 

[Verge2]

Probably because contrast specs are meaningless. Perhaps they are just being honest for a change, it isn't a very bright display after all so the contrast could only be so high even if it has perfect black.
The reviews indicate fair performance on your average white wall at 50"-60" screen for dark room viewing,
With a higher gain maybe that can be pushed to 70"-80".
The important thing to note is the reviews don't really place it at the 30 lumen spec for perceived brightness.

Definitely niche but it's a good start

This perceived lumens stuff I don't buy. I wouldn't go bigger than 35 inches with 30 lumens. Maybe something bigger in the future.

 

[Mik James]

This perceived lumens stuff I don't buy. I wouldn't go bigger than 35 inches with 30 lumens. Maybe something bigger in the future.

Well, ill let you know when they release it. I can do a direct comparison against the Acer K330.

 

[AV_Integrated]

It will be good to get some comparison, but on paper, there is nothing special about this model other than the battery efficiency.

A serious review that measures light output, and really puts it head to head with the competition would be nice. Keeping in mind the PF1500 from LG is supposed to be delivering around 800 calibrated lumens in a 1080p model that's $1,000 out the door very shortly. Maybe not in the same price class, but I still struggle to understand what class a 32 lumen non-1080p projector falls into. Not business, not home theater... The portable 'fun' class, for sure. Great for the business traveler and hotel room wall. Or, the sit in your drawer at home and never get used segment.

Which is a niche of a niche of a niche market.

Any real business or home application seems completely unrealistic for this model and makes it mostly a waste of money which could be better spent elsewhere.

 

[Verge2]

It will be good to get some comparison, but on paper, there is nothing special about this model other than the battery efficiency.

A serious review that measures light output, and really puts it head to head with the competition would be nice. Keeping in mind the PF1500 from LG is supposed to be delivering around 800 calibrated lumens in a 1080p model that's $1,000 out the door very shortly. Maybe not in the same price class, but I still struggle to understand what class a 32 lumen non-1080p projector falls into. Not business, not home theater... The portable 'fun' class, for sure. Great for the business traveler and hotel room wall. Or, the sit in your drawer at home and never get used segment.

Which is a niche of a niche of a niche market.

Any real business or home application seems completely unrealistic for this model and makes it mostly a waste of money which could be better spent elsewhere.

Anybody else using this type of display technology? All I'm interested in.

 

[Mik James]

I just want to remember what true black with high contrast looks like without spending $2000+.

It's been a few years since my crt rear pro died and im getting desperate.
The oculus rift oled was a major disappointment for contrast/black level with all the pixel noise and ghosting.

Hopefully they get a brighter/higher res model out within a year or two.

 

[AV_Integrated]

Hopefully they get a brighter/higher res model out within a year or two.

Hopefully they get over their completely insane OCD need for these next to worthless Pico models completely.

A version of this which delivered 800 lumens, was fanless, and true 1080p w/3D? Keeping ultra-high contrast ratios and a fair price tag. It would certainly make things a bit more interesting.

Throw in some digital version of zooming as well. Why not?

If the last ten years haven't been interesting, then the next ten sure as heck are going to be.

 

[Verge2]

I just want to remember what true black with high contrast looks like without spending $2000+.

It's been a few years since my crt rear pro died and im getting desperate.
The oculus rift oled was a major disappointment for contrast/black level with all the pixel noise and ghosting.

Hopefully they get a brighter/higher res model out within a year or two.

Well.... When does JVCs panel technology come off patent?

 

[AV_Integrated]

Well.... When does JVCs panel technology come off patent?

JVC uses LCoS, just as Sony and now Epson.

JVC's version is not as bright, and is pricier in their implementation. It's not patented, it's expensive. This is why most LCoS models costs a fair bit more than others.

 

[Verge2]

JVC uses LCoS, just as Sony and now Epson.

JVC's version is not as bright, and is pricier in their implementation. It's not patented, it's expensive. This is why most LCoS models costs a fair bit more than others.

They have 10x the native contrast of Sony projectors costing 2x as much.

Based on that you can't really say all lcos panels are created equal.

 

[AV_Integrated]

They have 10x the native contrast of Sony projectors costing 2x as much.

Based on that you can't really say all lcos panels are created equal.

Sure I can say it... I may be lying, but I can say it.

It's really difficult to say why JVC panels have so much more contrast, but it's possible that Sony went for brightness where JVC went for contrast. Some economies of scale or something like that. It's just so hard to say what it is about the JVC light engine that makes the contrast so much higher than what Sony and Epson is putting out.

Still, a laser based tech which paints a screen similar to a CRT gun certainly has the potential for greater contrast. But, it needs to be bright enough to be actually useful.

 

[Elix]

I surely would like to see this technology implemented in a HT-tier product.

 

[Verge2]

Sure I can say it... I may be lying, but I can say it.

It's really difficult to say why JVC panels have so much more contrast, but it's possible that Sony went for brightness where JVC went for contrast. Some economies of scale or something like that. It's just so hard to say what it is about the JVC light engine that makes the contrast so much higher than what Sony and Epson is putting out.

Still, a laser based tech which paints a screen similar to a CRT gun certainly has the potential for greater contrast. But, it needs to be bright enough to be actually useful.

Yea i googled around a bit during lunch, there is no information out there as to why JVC's light engine is so good.

Not cool JVC.

 

[Mik James]

The Epson Ls10000 might be using something similar, only $7650 higher msrp .

Why do they always hit the high and low end with new tech first, never the midrange.
Exactly the same thing going on with oled panels, plenty of cheap cellphone oleds and 3000$ oled flat panels. Nothing decent for the average joe.