[Fire Man]

This is how I currently have my speakers set up...

Obviously that isn't a great spot for my center channel. I moved my fronts up to the top shelf and I plan on putting a shelf above my tv for the center. My question is does the center need to be right smack above the tv, or can I put it up about 8-10 inches. The speaker will be angled down of course, I just want to make sure this isn't a bad idea. The reason is the look of the shelf. I'd like it better if it set up a bit higher.

 

[jostenmeat]

Well, it would be better as closer to the tv. Don't overestimate how much better/worse that will look. For instance, someone tried the upright bookshelf recently, and thought it looked totally wacky. He did not notice that it sounded MUCH superior.


He left it that way, and had friends over, expecting to hear all sorts of remarks. Not a single one, but they all enjoyed the movie. FWIW.


I've been copying/pasting a recent post of mine a lot lately. Please take it FWIW.

Quote:
I'm here to throw you a curveball. I've been annoyingly ranting and raving, particularly to those with flat panels. Its just something to consider, or ponder over. IOW, I'm just trying to be helpful, and please feel free to ignore. But, here goes, paraphrasing a former post of mine:


The best is three towers in the front. Very few do this. I've been ranting and raving for a long time about this.


Now, if you have a large DLP sitting on an AV rack, you can't, and that's quite understood. If you have a flat panel mounted on the wall a few feet high, you absolutely can, and IMO absolutely should.


get a modular rack for $200, and put it anywhere you want, just not up front. Even the closet if you want. A URC (extremely reputable) RF-20 remote + blaster is only $75 last I checked. A 35 ft Mono HDMI is about $40.


By having the identical tower, you will be:


- perfectly matched as matched can be, in all speaker characteristics

- even plane of tweeters/drivers for perfect and even panning

- completely bypass horizontal lobing issues inherent in a horiz mtm design, which usually means a sweetspot at less than 20 degrees.

- horiz cabinet means vertical dispersion as opposed to horiz dispersion. Sound likes to travel along the path of least resistance (smallest dimension), so to speak.

- less stuff/mass/material in-between your speakers that would otherwise destroy stereo, or m-ch, imaging.

- better video immersion without all the lights up front

- best of all, money in the pocket


If it indeed must be horizontal, the best designs will be such as top mounted tweeter (ie B&W), WTMW (ie Revel, AV123), or coincidental (KEF).


Now, if you have only one loveseat, for 1-2 viewers, not as big of a deal, assuming you sit straight on. If you have more than one couch, my suggestions just only regarding center design will benefit you greatly.

Now, in your case, the only part that might not be true is the "money in the pocket" portion of this quote. However, I think with "modest" expenditures, you can have HUGE audio gains. JMO. Nothing beats a good design and/or layout.


-jostenmeat

 

[Fire Man]

You make great points. After thinking about it some more I think I'm going to mount my tv on the wall a little higher which will allow me to put all three front speakers on the top shelf. I've always liked the look of mounted tv's anyway.


Thanks for the input.

 

[troublefan]

I know you like the speakers on the shelf but with all three speakers almost literally right next to each other, I think you'd get a better, wider front soundstage with the L and R spread out further. Would moving your whole shelf system a foot or so left (centered between the left wall and the curtains), mounting the tv (not too high up), center speaker on the shelf directly below it, and L and R wall mounted to the side of the tv (spaced further and equidistant from the tv) be a possibility? I know this isn't what you asked, but perhaps you'd get a better front soundstage with the speakers further apart. This may not work for you if you don't want speakers on the wall or if your speakers are rear ported.

 

[Fire Man]

I'd love to be able to do that but it's not possible. This room is not friendly for setting this all up. As it is now only one seat on the couch is straight on to the tv. I can't move the couch cause the wall ends and a hall way begins. And then the window screws things up on the wall with the tv. I use to have the room set up with the far wall being the tv wall, but it left so little room to get around the couch and we couldn't do it anymore. This set up opens the room up much more. It's such a small house and it's really our best option. Believe me, I've moved stuff around quite a bit.

 

[jostenmeat]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jostenmeat /forum/post/14676050


For instance, someone tried the upright bookshelf recently, and thought it looked totally wacky. He did not notice that it sounded MUCH superior.

I just reread my post. The highlighted, underlined, italicized word "not" is um not supposed to be in there. It in fact DID sound much superior.

I am with troublefan on this, but Im sure you know whats possible and what's not. Also, speakers just tend to like being in free space, and not sitting on shelves.


The only possible negative I see in the rec of moving it all to the left is greater reflection energy from the left wall, creating a more left-heavy soundstage. Which can definitely be ameliorated with treatments, as I know first hand, but take all that FWIW.


Good luck man!

 

[Fire Man]

Besides the limitation with the way the room is set up, I also live with my girlfriend. She couldn't care less about proper set up. She wants things to look nice. So as much as that kills me (ok, pisses me off), it keeps me from doing what I would really like to do. My hands are bound. So I'm trying to set it up as best as possible and please her at the same time. It's not an easy task.

 

[Fire Man]

Ok, after many long talks with the boss (do NOT tell her I said that), this is what is comes down to. I tried and tried to get her to let me mount the tv on the wall and moved the "tv stand" to another wall, then use speaker stands along the front. But that idea was not welcome at all. (this is killing me just typing this). So, about the best I can do is put a shelf just above the tv and use that for the center, angled down. Then I'm going to put my fronts on speaker stand at a 25 or so degree angle from the listening area. I wanted to mount the tv on the wall, and she's not against it, but it makes the tv too high, thus making the center too high. Didn't want either of those to happen. I've looked at a LOT of pics of peoples set up and I see the center channel mounted above the tv quite often, so I'm guessing many are ok with that.


My next question is about the L and R surround speakers. I did have the on stands, which will now be used on my fronts. Plus they should be higher then I had them anyway. My problem is they will not go on the sidewalls ideally. It's really not an option. There would be a speaker in two different door ways if I did. So the only choice is to put them on small shelves on the back wall, which is what the couch is up against. They wouldn't be able to go very far to the sides either. Basicall about a foot out from the side of the couch, then up a foot or two. If I did this, which way should my speakers face? Toward the couch facing each other or forward, facing the tv. I'm not against ceiling mounting and pointing them down somehow, but I'd prefer the shelf. Ok she prefers the shelf. (someone has to feel my pain, right?).


I know I have a lot of limits here, but any help would be greatly appreciated. My house is just so small. If I didn't live in it for free (comes with my job) I'd move in a second.


Thanks.

 

[troublefan]

I understand the WAF/GAF. The rear wall shelf placement, with the speakers aimed at the couch (toward each other) is how I would do it. Pointing forward into the room would not give you the surround effect and would probably just muddy up the audio altogether. You can compensate for distances through the receiver's setup as well as volume so surround audio won't be overtly loud being close to the listening position.


You could still mount the tv, just a few inches higher than it is now. Your center would go on the stand underneath it, and with the fronts on stands to either side, they would all three be more likely to be at the same height. This would make for a nice, ear-level front soundstage. Just another thought. Have fun!

 

[Fire Man]

The way the tv sits right now, it is just a little bit high for my liking. It's not too bad though. I'm just afraid it would be too high and we wouldn't like it.


Now one thing my girl suggested, which actually surprised me, was making a platform for the couch so we could mount the tv higher and we'd be at the same level as now. It's really not a bad idea, but I'd have to do some measuring to see how it would work out.

 

[LowellG]

With your L/R mains that close together you might just try your system with a phantom center and sell it. Also, can the CC hold the weight of your TV? That might be another option.

 

[Fire Man]

I couldn't imagine selling a speaker. I know I'll have a better room at some point in the future. For now I'm trying to find the best set up for what I have to work with.


I suppose I could put my tv on my CC, but not sure I'd like the look.


I'm heading to the house now to do some thinking and set up my new denon 1909. For now I'm going to put the center channel on a shelf above the tv cause I already have the shelf and I might as well see how it comes out. Then later I'll play around with the whole set up and hopefully be able to make it better.


Thanks for the input.