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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well I finally got my CS-1 hooked up, here’s my bug's so far.


I have a Pioneer 720HD HDTV with an HD2000 Explorer cable box, currently using the s-video out on cable box for CS-1 input.


I can get only one resolution to work which is 852 X 480 60 Hz for Plasma and it’s a noticeable improvement over s-video.


I can get 1080p and it looks damn good but its split screen. Meaning there is a line down the middle and the full picture is on both sides but a bit squished.


If I could get 1080p working I would be one happy movie/sports watching camper.


I would like to get 720p to work as well but all I get is a scrambled mess.


I can not get the CS-1 to recognize component inputs just s-video for some reason.


I upgraded to the latest bios 118 however after upgrading I get a runtime error when I try to create or edit resolutions. I was able to mess with it prior with no problems.


I am going to send this list to Focus Enhancements tech support unless anyone knows any fixes first.


Also if anyone has made any custom resolutions maybe they could be uploaded to a central location for others to try them out.
 

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Since you are the first,


Can you hook your CS-1 up to a computer monitor and see if it displays all the native resolutions on the monitor.


Thanks,

clopez
 

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What is the actual native resolution of your Plasma? What ever the native resolution is, you should be using this resolution. I do not know of any Plasmas with a native rate of 1080p. You should report any bugs to [email protected] . Make sure to give as much information about your system as possible.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Socio
...I can get 1080p and it looks damn good but its split screen. Meaning there is a line down the middle and the full picture is on both sides but a bit squished...
Socio,


It sounds like the reason 1080P won't work and gives you a "double image" is because your TV is only capable of 1080i (~same as 540P) input. It is getting twice it's needed frequency than it can handle, therefor it's not scanning fast enough and putting two pctures squashed on your screen. The same thing happens when you try to put a line doubled 480i at 15.75kHz (which is 480P, 31.5kHz) signal into a standard interlaced TV.


The fault on this one is in your display device, not the CS-1. Try 540P, which the TV will think is 1080i, and tell us if that works. What is your display device???
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Clopez,

I will try it on a monitor and see what happens


FE,


Its not a Plasma it a HDTV RBTV, that Plasma res is the only thing I can get to work so far. I will report these and any other bugs I may come across.


DHarp,


I have tried 1080i all I get is a scrambled mess, 1080p is the only thing that I get any kind of picture on with the one exception. I would try to do 540p but I would have to make it and I can't because of the runtime error #5 I get when I try. Besides it is HDTV and ture HDTV res is 1920x1080 and it will display that via HD cable box so I should be able to do one or both right?
 

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Your Pioneer 720HD HDTV will not work properly at 1080p, but should work at 480p, 540p, or 1080i. The fact that it won't work at 1080p is not a Centerstage bug, but a well-known limitation of rear-projection TVs. Again, it is incorrect and unfair to say that this is a "bug."
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Goff,

I did not know that it was not able to run 1080p so to me was a bug, now I know better.


According to the specs the Pioneer 720HD is capable of 1,400 lines resolution and Native 1080i. These specs are not in the mannual I found them in a press release. So I should indeed be able to get 1080i .
 

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Yes, you'll be able to use 1080i, but 1080p requires twice the bandwidth, which you TV does not support. 1080p requires twice the bandwidth because it displays 1080 lines of information in one progressive scan, whereas 1080i displays half of those lines in one scan followed by the other half. These two fields of even and odd numbered lines are interwoven with each other, creating what is called an interlaced picture. Our persistence of vision melds them together into one picture. Interlaced video was developed as a means of using less bandwidth to broadcast and present the video picture.
 

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Steve,


Good point, but it is the doubling of the horizontal frequency that is the culprit, not bandwidth. Not enough bandwidth would still display the proper image dimensions if the H/V frequencies were right, but the picture would look like garbage.


Great explanation of interlaced scanning, BTW!!!
 

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Quote:
According to the specs the Pioneer 720HD is capable of 1,400 lines resolution and Native 1080i. These specs are not in the mannual I found them in a press release. So I should indeed be able to get 1080i.
Hmm, you know, 2 * 720 is about 1400... since, from a bandwidth standpoint, 720p = 1440i, I'll bet you could configure an HTPC with a 1440-line, interlaced resolution, and it would display just fine.


Perhaps that's where the marketroids got their 1400-line resolution figure from?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Steve,


Harp is right, that’s a great explanation of interlaced scanning. As you can tell I am pretty much a newb when it comes to this stuff but I am learning as fast as I can.


mcg1969,


The CenterStage-1 can do 720p thus could be programmed to do 1440i I think. When I figure out how to fix the runtime error I get when trying I will try it out. I think I would be very happy if I can just get 540p 1080i to work though.


Right now I am using a monitor cable to go between CS and HDTV. I ordered a special VGA to Component Y Pr Pb cable. So I can go straight to component in on my HDTV and skip the VGA RPG in which might be causing me some of these problems.


Not sure if this even work but I will post results
 

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Really I was just curious about 1440i from a technical standpoint, not necessarily because I think it will do a better job.


In fact, I think that 720p is probabably your best bet for DVD sources. Since any upconversion, even to an interlaced resolution like 1440i, will require deinterlacing to 480p first, there's little reason to re-interlace. 1440i may well look worse than 720p because of the potential for flicker and all. But hey, if the CS-1 can do it, it's worth an experiment.


Can the CS-1 scale HD sources? For a 1080i source like D-VHS, 1440i might be a more worthwhile choice. But if the CS-1 can't handle that, then 720p will definitely be fine.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by DHarp193
Steve,


Good point, but it is the doubling of the horizontal frequency that is the culprit, not bandwidth. Not enough bandwidth would still display the proper image dimensions if the H/V frequencies were right, but the picture would look like garbage.
By bandwidth I meant the ability of the display to work at a particular horizontal frequency, which, for multisync displays, is frequently refered to as a the dispay's scanning frequency bandwidth. So we're basically saying the same thing, if using different nomenclature.

Steve
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by mcg1969
In fact, I think that 720p is probabably your best bet for DVD sources. Since any upconversion, even to an interlaced resolution like 1440i, will require deinterlacing to 480p first, there's little reason to re-interlace. 1440i may well look worse than 720p because of the potential for flicker and all. But hey, if the CS-1 can do it, it's worth an experiment.

Again, this TV will not scan at the frequency necessary to do 720p. It has what Pioneer calls "Dual Scan Capability," which "Automatically Detects Input Format (15.75, 31.5 and 33.75kHz) and displays at 31.5 or 33.75kHz." This means that it will do 480p, 540p (though there may have been problems with this in the past), and 1080i. 31.5kHz corresponds to 480p, whereas 33.75kHz corresponds to 1080i.



Steve
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Socio
Steve,


Harp is right, that’s a great explanation of interlaced scanning. As you can tell I am pretty much a newb when it comes to this stuff but I am learning as fast as I can.


mcg1969,


The CenterStage-1 can do 720p thus could be programmed to do 1440i I think. When I figure out how to fix the runtime error I get when trying I will try it out. I think I would be very happy if I can just get 540p 1080i to work though.


Right now I am using a monitor cable to go between CS and HDTV. I ordered a special VGA to Component Y Pr Pb cable. So I can go straight to component in on my HDTV and skip the VGA RPG in which might be causing me some of these problems.


Not sure if this even work but I will post results
I think you just answered the problem. If you are not using the YPbPr input of the TV then your TV isn't expecting an HDTV signal, this also explains your color problem. I believe that the VGA port of your TV is for RGB HV only and may also be limited as acceptable resolutions for this port. I will be looking into the specs of this TV further but this is my educated hunch. Steve do you know the specs of this TV? I also think that the name of the TV should also be a clue maybe 720p would be a good res to test, but I would wait until you have the correct cable first since HDTV resolutions ATSC standard is Component not RGB. When you choose 1080i as your output the CS-1 automatically defaults to Y PbPr tri-Sync which is what your TV is looking for on the Component input not the RGB input for 1080i.
 

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The Pioneer Elite PRO-720HD is called that because their last model was the 710, and before that the 700. My previous message quoted from the Pioneer site's list of features for the model. As I said, it "[a]utomatically Detects Input Format (15.75, 31.5 and 33.75kHz) and displays at 31.5 or 33.75kHz." This means it will take inputs of 480p and 1080i, but not 720p, not even if you ask nicely. It also has a built-in line doubler, which converts 480i to 480p. I think it will accept 480p on both the component input and the the D-sub 15 input. Here is another quote: "3 Progressive Scan Inputs: D-Sub 15 Inputs, 2 Component Inputs." I think that the D-sub input is the one used for HDTV, but HDTV can also be conveyed via a three-wire component connection, so Socio should consult his owner's manual.


So again, despite the name of this TV, it will not do 720p. By the way, this also means it will not do 1440i, since that requires the same horizontal scan frequency as 720p.


Here is the Pioneer description of this set: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/Pi...,20882,00.html
 

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Damn, they don't let you download the manual unless you register.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well I tried special VGA to Component Y Pr Pb cable, I had it overnighted.


1080i works, I can get a beautiful picture but I have to thin lines running down the middle of the screen, one red and one green. I don't know if its CenterStage related or cable related or TV related. I might call Focus Tech support and get their advice.


I am getting closer, if I can some how get rid of the 2 lines in 1080i and fix my VBruntime error with the CenterStage software I will be happy.


Bonus would be getting 540P to work but that might be a stretch.


Thanks for everyone’s help thus far
 

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Let me shed a little light on the subject.


First off the Name fot he TV being 720. This is just a model year thing.


The first incarnation of this TV was the 700, then the 710, now the 720. It has nothing to do with what signals it will accept.


I am pretty sure it states in the manual that the TV will only accpet 480i 480p and 1080i via the component inputs.


(looks like Goff beat me to the stuff above.)


Now as for the streak in the middle. You may need to reconverge the set using the convergance menu. Feed the TV a 1080i or 540P signal (to the TV its TO'Mato ToMa'to) Then go into the user menu and locate convergance. First converge the cross hatch then converge the outer points in the second menu screen.


Should get you all tuned up.


The TV uses different convergances for different signals and settings. Make sure you do the convergance in FULL mode. I am pretty sure it will lock on full when fed 1080i but I can't tell you how annoying it is to converge some other mode and then realize it was ZOOM or the like.
 

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Quote:
I think you just answered the problem. If you are not using the YPbPr input of the TV then your TV isn't expecting an HDTV signal, this also explains your color problem. I believe that the VGA port of your TV is for RGB HV only and may also be limited as acceptable resolutions for this port. I will be looking into the specs of this TV further but this is my educated hunch. Steve do you know the specs of this TV? I also think that the name of the TV should also be a clue maybe 720p would be a good res to test, but I would wait until you have the correct cable first since HDTV resolutions ATSC standard is Component not RGB. When you choose 1080i as your output the CS-1 automatically defaults to Y PbPr tri-Sync which is what your TV is looking for on the Component input not the RGB input for 1080i.
um, I was following until just now.. My CS-1 is on the way, and I'm driving a Runco DTV-933 CRT (replacing a DVDO iScan Pro).. I know that this projector's "sweet spot" is 720p/1024x768. The projector is expecting RGBHV. Are you saying I can't spit RGBHV out of the 'VGA' port on the CS-1? This projector will not accept Y Pb Pr.
 
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