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Discussion Starter · #21 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007  /t/1491620/cerwin-vega-cv5000-or-crown-xls5000-for-four-si18s/0_100#post_23760031


Are these subs going to be sealed? If so I would either go with the iNuke 6000dsp or EP4000 with a MiniDsp so that you can apply boost on the low end and have EQ capabilities as well.

The subs will be sealed. I already have a mini dsp also, but I am wondering why you are recommending those amps for tuning purposes when i can also do the same with the cv5000 and mini dsp?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction  /t/1491620/cerwin-vega-cv5000-or-crown-xls5000-for-four-si18s#post_23760114


The subs will be sealed. I already have a mini dsp also, but I am wondering why you are recommending those amps for tuning purposes when i can also do the same with the cv5000 and mini dsp?

We know the ep4k extends into the single digits. The CV is an unknown.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
That is another thing for me to think about dang it! I don't know if I can even reach single digits with the SI 18's.


You see, this is why I posted on here. You guys have been awesome at giving me info that I didn't know.
 

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you can reach single digits with any speaker, the question is how loud. another question might be if you could tell in a blind test the difference between a sealed and a ported, but I won't get into that one....
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction  /t/1491620/cerwin-vega-cv5000-or-crown-xls5000-for-four-si18s#post_23760168


That is another thing for me to think about dang it! I don't know if I can even reach single digits with the SI 18's.


You see, this is why I posted on here. You guys have been awesome at giving me info that I didn't know.

Well, you said sealed, so I think single digits



We've heard numerous times the CV5k has some serious power, but the reason there are questions about it's sub 20hz response is because of experiences with the Marathon MA-5050. The CV and MA are both clones of the Crest CA-18.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman  /t/1491620/cerwin-vega-cv5000-or-crown-xls5000-for-four-si18s#post_23760147


We know the ep4k extends into the single digits. The CV is an unknown.
CV5000 ratings on paper are +/-3dB 5Hz-25kHz (IIRC). I haven't yet found any real life bench testing, though.


It is a BEAST, though, the best part of 6 stone in weight
Can't wait to get mine up and running!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd  /t/1491620/cerwin-vega-cv5000-or-crown-xls5000-for-four-si18s#post_23759535


Don't the XLS series roll off below 20hz also? Or is that model specific within the XLS lineup?

The XLS5000 is an anomaly in the XLS line. All the other XLS amps are lightweight class D amps, but the 5000 is most certainly not either of those things...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman  /t/1491620/cerwin-vega-cv5000-or-crown-xls5000-for-four-si18s#post_23760597


The XLS5000 is an anomaly in the XLS line. All the other XLS amps are lightweight class D amps, but the 5000 is most certainly not either of those things...


Partially true, the XLS 1000 1500 2000 2500 are the class d drivecore amps and not related.



The XLS5000 is from the xls 202 402 602 802 lineup none of which are class D
 

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i'm not aware of any, but the amp that it was copied from is kind of a legend...crest ca18. it appears to be a pretty good copy too.
 

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I think i said this a few times already, but seeing as some may use this info to make a buying decision and run into this thread here goes.

The CV 5000 is designed and manufactured by a new company formed in 2002 called HPA electronics. This company makes a whole line of HPA amplifiers of which the HPA 5000 is the top amp. This same amplifier is bought buy other name brands who wish to supply a top quality amplifier at a reasonable price.

The B52 US 6000 as well as the rest of the series are HPA amplifiers. So are the CV 5000 and the rest of that series. The American audio V 6000 and the rest of the series again, all the same amplifier. The Samson series are HPA amplifiers, and I have posted a few other brands in the past that are also HPA amplifiers in a different case and name.

I personally own 4 CV 5000 , 5 CV 2800 and 4 Samson SX 3200. I consider them all HPA electronics brand.
If you are a test freak, you can use a voltage multimeter to get an idea of the output by measuring the voltage at the binding posts. IN any even at 799.00 everyday price the Cerwin vega version is the by far the cheapest on the planet, and a very solid amplifier. The transformer in the CV 5000 is 2500 VA. larger than the transformer in the crest Ca 18. which is suppose to be overbuilt. So with 2500 VA you know you will not be short on producing the 1000 watt rms posted after efficiency losses.

I have been very pleased with all my HPA amplifiers, and have found them to have adequate transformers, and high reliability. The CV 2800 and Samson SX 3200 have 94 volt rails!. I imagine the CV 5000 has much higher than that. Some of these amps I have been running on sub duty for over 7 years now. I have not tried to measure voltage yet however I did measure DC offset which was non existent on the CV 2800 3200 in stereo, and a modest 25mv on bridged mode, so they have very little DC offset, even after 7 years LOL.

Anyway I would go with the CV 5000 over the Crown as the crown has two smaller toroidals and chances are based on the amplifiers much lighter weight, that they will be lucky to be 1000 va each.
 

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The CV 5000 was never copied from any amplifier. It is made by meade design and is really an HPA A5000. The same amplifier is licensed to many brand names such as American audio with the 6001, B52 with the B52 US 6000. All HPA electronic sister amps are licensed to names like Samson SX, Cerwin Vega CV etc. Everything of course always has to be a copy of crest or qsc!!.

Many say the Phonic XP 5000 is the original amplifier maker and the the Crown XLS 5000 is a granted license, so the XLS 5000 is really a PHONIC XP unit. All the other XLS from this series were made with metal transistors, except for the XLS 5000 which used silicon. Both near identical to the QSC RMX 5050.

Main difference between the two units are the Number of transistors, The CV 5000 with 16 per channel, vs the other three stated in second paragraph above with 12 per channel. The absolute max on the toshiba transistors is 150 watt. so you have 12 times 150 watt equals 1800 watts per channel or 3600 total. For the CV 5000 and it's sisters in paragraph one above. 16 time 150 watts equals 2400 per channel or 4800 total. Of course the closer you come to the max the more the transistor will wear and break down, so the CV 5000 has the better advantage in spades!. Its transformer is 2500 VA, which is more than the Crest CA 18.
Yes she goes down to 5 hz no problem.

As long as your only pushing 4 ohm load max. The units with 12 transistors per channel will put out there power no problem but will be in trouble should an AVS forum standard two ohm loader get his hands on it. No way to get 5000 rated watts out of 3600 watts worth of transistors. Breakdown and right soon!!!. The CV 5000 will just make it to the hairy edge of max, at 2 ohm load.


Quite easy to see the CV 5000 is top dog over over crown xls 5000 or even QSC rmx 5050 with only 12 transistors. This is the whole reason QSC made the 4050 hd. Same amplifier with lower output on the same 12 transistors so it can as QSC states, HANDLE TWO OHM LOADS BETTER, THAN THEIR RMX 5050 VERSION. The QSC RMX 4050 is a lot closer to the max on the transistor without going way over max like the RMX 5050.

The Marathon Ma 5050 is nothing but a 58 lb glorified two rack space unit that has design flaws, a further under rated transformer, and poor abilities under 30 hz. Worst purchase I ever made, and if you ever need
service, these guys will never send you parts. I use my MA 5050s for bullet tweeters LOL. It is either that
or take 400 or less for them. They are very hard to sell.
 
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I ran my Crown XLS 5000 on a pair of 2ohm captivators, in 2 ohm stereo for a couple years. It was impecabble. The amp never even warmed up that I know of, and I drove them hard during occassional playtimes. A single channel of the XLS 5000 was quite a bit more powerful than a single channel of the EP4000. Gorilla83 and I had the same experience when we moved from a EP4000 to a XLS 5000 --- it was more of a 5-7 dB increase with our pair of captivators than what you would expect which would be about a 3dB increase based on ratings alone. The XLS 5000 is very powerful.

I currently have a CV5000 wired to three UM18-22 sealed subs - bridged to combined 3 ohm load, and I have no problems with the CV5000 either. It has never warmed up that I know of, and it powers the drivers at 3ohm bridged with no issues that I can detect.

The Crown XLS5000 is very barebones, while the CV5000 has a few bells and whistles like an HPF.

The unit I recommended would depend on the price you can get either for. The Crown XLS 5000 is EASILY worth $400 if you can actually find it for that price used?????, but I've not seen it for less than about $800 new for years. The Cerwin Vega CV5000 can be purchased from musicians friend on occassion with a 20% off coupon --- so with tax it's back up to $680 or so and at that price I think it's very much worth it too if you need something for low impedance. If you need something for 4 ohm or higher impedance, you might as well just go with an iNuke DSP 6000 and save some money and get an excellent DSP. I have a pair of those, and run one UM18-22 per channel. They seem to have plenty of power for that purpose, and with their efficiency I can run two iNuke DSP 6000 and one iNuke DSP 3000 on a single 20 amp circuit all the way to clippping and not pop the breaker. Meanwhile the Cerwin Vega CV-5000 or Crown XLS 5000 can pop a 20 amp circuit by itself when pushed towards clipping.
 

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The Crowns are good amplifiers, and if you can get them for 600 and under, why not?. I would even take a few QSC 4050 hd for that price. Any amplifier will do 2 ohm loads if it is made for it, but if you do not have enough transistors, when you go full power, the more the peaks overtest the max on those transistors the more they slowly break down and wear out.

Qsc was always a company that has bragged about two ohm load capability. For some reason it is a selling feature, but like I have said before, better off working things out so your pushing 3600 watts bridged into 8 ohms rather than 5000 into 4, (two ohm load equivelent. The actual difference in loudness is almost non existent, vs the amplifier wear out that will occur. The only reason the QSC rmx 4050 hd is better for 2 ohm load performance, is because it is simply a RMX 5050 HD with smaller toroidals, and governed to not test the max on the transistors. They did the same thing with the RMX 2450 when they made the RMX 1850 HD. Same amplifier with max power throttled.

There is no Cerwin Vega CV 4000. However HPA makes the 4000, and the American Audio V 5001 is the same unit. This unit has 12 transistors much like the XLS 5000 and QSC RMX 5050 However they left the rest of the amplifier with full balls. 2500 va transformer.

I found it surprising over time to find that all the HPA units provide fully rated toroidals, yet big name manufacturers, who claim they use better parts etc, (without ever telling you what those parts are of course,) appear to use transformers underrated by at least 500 va if not more. This under rating thing I learned from Randy Slone, who provides much unbiased information about amplifiers.

The whole Crest CA series and the QSC series, that are suppose to be their highest quality amps, all have underated transformers to put more money in the pocket of the manufacturer. It is so common place that it is almost impossible to find amplifiers with fully rated transformers, yet all these Cerwin vega, Samson, American audio, and other HPA series version amps have the full monty, for half the cost.

QSC is so tired of incurring the warranty costs from advertising two ohm load capability now, that they now
make amplifiers advertised for 2 ohm separate from 4 ohm, more than they ever did before. Further they
have backed off on the warranty to only three years, making you pay cash up front for the other three.
The costs of advertising and supporting 2 ohm load capability, has turned out to be too much for them, and
I am not surprised. It has always been just a gimmick in the hopes of selling more amplifiers.

There is no such thing as a two ohm stable amplifier, but it is easier for some to SAY, such as behringer with it's ep 4000. After a year, they do not have to worry about your fried amplifier.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
so what did u end up getting ??
I ordered 4x UXL18's
I have 8x 1260w's
2x Si HT18's
and a JTR Captivator S2

2x iNuke 3000dsp's
Peavy IPR2 7500


I am selling the S2 and the SI ht18's will go in my office and master bedroom in some mini marty's or something small and ported when my UXL's show up. All subs in my theater are sealed.
 

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XLS5000 vs CE4000?

I realize this is an old thread, but since its already been resurrected a couple times and you guys seem quite knowledgeable about these amps why not a third.

I have UM18s, as well, two sealed ones, and Im looking for an amp to power them. I was about to pull the trigger on a CE4000, but a XLS5000 just popped up locally. Do any of you guys have any thoughts on which would be better?
 

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Hi, guys, I was just told my QSC that the Toroidal's in the RMX5050a are 1500VA each, or 3KVA total, which makes it more than the 2.5KVA in the CV5000. They look kind of small at first glance from the top, but they are a good 5-6" deep. Since the Crown XLS5000 is the same weight as RMX5050a I'm assuming it also has dual 1500VA toroidal's. Not sure where the extra 5 lbs is coming from in the CV5000, but it does have more heatsinks and fans, maybe thats part of it.
 

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Alguien vivo en 2021 tengo CV 5000 usando 2 cajas doble 15 por canal a 2 ohm cada canal sin llegar al clip ni bombillo amarillo y este ampli en medios es una maravilla tengo más de 6 años con el y hasta ahora los filtros capacitancia se mantiene es sinceramente una máquina
 
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