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Challenging speakers to build

2255 Views 21 Replies 10 Participants Last post by M NEWMAN, May 11, 2006

BigguyZ

Discussion Starter · May 2, 2006

I'm bored. I don't have $$$ for the really high-end kits or speaker designs, but a $7 sheet of MDF is fine. What I would like is to build some difficult speakers, starting with the cabinets. Something different than the standard rectangular box. Maybe something like the Warfedale or Rocket curved cabinets. Or whatever. Just something that would really showcase your ability to build something. But I need a design to follow, because I'm no speaker designer.

Anyone have any suggestions?

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1 - 20 of 22 Posts

BlakeN

· #2 · May 2, 2006

Anything exotic usually is designed to use expensive components. Your average person isn't going to build some awesome enclosure that takes hours and hours to build then stick $50 worth of speakers into it.

Andy G is probably the king of unique DIY design. (It looks like he has gone commercial and removed a lot of his designs) I don't see any of the gumbys but if you email him he might help you out.

http://users.tpg.com.au/users/gradds/

dyazdani

· #3 · May 2, 2006

Any thoughts about building one of the existing designs, say in the $300 range, but being creative on the cabinet design. You would maintain the baffle width and configuration, but you could curve the back or whatever you want.

Another way, I guess would be to design in a removable baffle. You could spend a bunch of time on the enclosure and get something really neat. Dump in some less expensive drivers and replace them and the baffle later. You'd be stuck with finding two sets of drivers with similar requirements and then having to design two XOs, etc.

BigguyZ

Discussion Starter · #4 · May 3, 2006

Well my thought is you could build the cabinets just for fun, and then get someone else to pay for the electronics. I really just want to test my speaker building skills, so unless I design the entire thing it's all about the cabinet and finishing.

Taperwood

· #5 · May 3, 2006

If you want challenging or different, start exploring the world of single driver speakers. Cabinet design is equally as important as the drivers. I got into single drivers a few years ago and have not looked back. There are some very interesting and radical designs floating around. A couple of sites to get you started would be:

DIYaudio.com

Fullrangedriver.com

One big caveat though, single drivers excel at vocals, small group, jazz, light rock, acoustic, etc. Although you can listen to other types of music, big-sound head bangers would not be overly impressed, but these speakers can sound spectacular otherwise.

Doug

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BigguyZ

Discussion Starter · #6 · May 3, 2006

Checked the sites out. There seems to be a lot to wade through. Is there a specific system you'd recomend? It's just as well, as I won't know what they sound like until they're done.

Shinobiwan

· #7 · May 3, 2006

What about these:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-...88/basscab.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-...8/bassovw1.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-...288/v2pic1.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-...88/plinth1.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1050288/woof1.JPG

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Shinobiwan

· #8 · May 3, 2006

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1050288/woof2.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-...88/satfin3.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-...88/satfin1.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-...88/satfin5.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-...erthansex2.JPG

I've been slowly working on these for a while and they are a fairly unusual shape, use some nice drivers and have an entirely digital approach using digital FIR crossover filters, room correction and triamped. They may fit your 'expensive' requirement at $8k+ for the whole setup including the DEQX and 6 channels of fairly decent DIY amplification (I use Greg Ball's GB150 and GB300 amps).

They sound crap though

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BigguyZ

Discussion Starter · #9 · May 3, 2006

Actually, I wan't looking necessarily for exprensive. Cheap is fine. I just figured that the more esoteric designs (which I would include those in that group) would require more $$ drivers. The point was that I could take weeks and weeks during my free time to work on the cabinets, and then just buy the drivers and plop them in. The Audax set I built didn't take long, as the design isn't too complex. That at least was my thinking in the matter.

That's an excellent paint job you did. What did you use? I've done that kind of a mirror finish on computers, but I used automotive paints...

Shinobiwan

· #10 · May 3, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigguyZ
Actually, I wan't looking necessarily for exprensive. Cheap is fine. I just figured that the more esoteric designs (which I would include those in that group) would require more $$ drivers. The point was that I could take weeks and weeks during my free time to work on the cabinets, and then just buy the drivers and plop them in. The Audax set I built didn't take long, as the design isn't too complex. That at least was my thinking in the matter.

That's an excellent paint job you did. What did you use? I've done that kind of a mirror finish on computers, but I used automotive paints...

Sorry, I misread you first post as if you were purposefully looking for an expensive design. These kind of mistakes happen a lot when your an idiot, so please forgive my seemingly pointless post with the pictures above.

The paint is automotive 2pack stuff.

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BigguyZ

Discussion Starter · #11 · May 3, 2006

My post was poorly written. That happens when you write it while almost passing out from exhaustion. I appreciate the pics, as something like that wouldn't be bad at all. I would want some specs to follow though.

When you say automotive 2pack, is that the brand?

FlashJim

· #12 · May 3, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinobiwan
The paint is automotive 2pack stuff.

Base coat/clear coat?

Shinobiwan

· #13 · May 3, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigguyZ
My post was poorly written. That happens when you write it while almost passing out from exhaustion. I appreciate the pics, as something like that wouldn't be bad at all. I would want some specs to follow though.

When you say automotive 2pack, is that the brand?

2pack just refers to the type of paint. 2pack or 2k as its sometimes called is paint with a hardening agent added to speed up the drying time and also make the finish and harden so its tougher and more robust. Cellulose based paint usually takes a couple of months to harden/shrink fully, whearas 2k stuff takes around a week and dries to harder finish.

Its probably better if you take an existing design and go to town with the cabinet shape. I did just that a few years ago when I started to DIY. I took Visatons Topas kit and just did a more interesting cabinet:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-...288/Topas1.JPG

I later built another pair for a friend, unfortunately I don't have a picture of them finished but I do have a couple with the veneer missing from the side:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-...288/Topas2.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-...288/Topas3.JPG

And here's the original Visaton Topas cabinet:

http://www.visaton.com/bilder/fotos/gross/topas.jpg

http://www.visaton.com/english/artik..._700_6_20.html

Your really only limited by imagination and given enough time anything is possible regardless of skill. What you don't know can be learned with time.

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Shinobiwan

· #14 · May 3, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlashJim
Base coat/clear coat?

Primer was 2pack, basecoat was acrylic based and the clear was 2pack acrylic. All just regular automotive products used for finishing/refinishing. MDF needed lots of prep to get what you see in the pictures though. Plenty of work but its very rewarding once the whole thing is finished.

thylantyr

· #15 · May 4, 2006

And the project budget is ?

Are you interested in making some bass horns ? those require more skill

than just a box, use affordable woofers, is big, is stackable, and can punish

people pretty good.

Sneak peak at Wayne's 12 pi bass horn
http://www.pispeakers.com/catalog/pr...roducts_id/263

If interested, post a message on his forum here
http://audioroundtable.com/PiSpeakers/

and ask for the free plans. You can ask for any plans shown on his site.

He's cool and kicks down the info.

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Taperwood

· #16 · May 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigguyZ
Checked the sites out. There seems to be a lot to wade through. Is there a specific system you'd recomend? It's just as well, as I won't know what they sound like until they're done.

He, he. I guess that's why I called it the "world" of single driver speakers. Sorry.

To start, I would suggest going to the Fullrangedriver link and then clicking on the single driver website. Then explore the links on the left, starting with Fullrange speakers, then Horn Speakers, and then DIY projects. These three will give you theory, design principles, and some listening impressions.

After that, you can decide if it's something you want to pursue. Picking your first set of drivers is the hardest part. The sweet spot is in the $50 to $150 range per driver, with some excellent values below $100, so it's not massively expensive to try something. A good start would be one of the Fostex 6" designs. These drivers are fairly cheap, sound good, and there are tons of designs to pick from.

The general assessment of single drivers is that they form a more cohesive front to the music because there is no crossover or phasing problems. They will appear faster and more seemless. That's the biggest advantage.

Doug

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Taperwood

· #17 · May 7, 2006

Hey BigGuy,

I saw these tonight and immediately thought of your thread. What do you think? Unfortunately, I don't know who made them or what the specs are. I'm pretty sure the driver is 4 inches. Probably gets good bass down 60Hz or so.

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BigguyZ

Discussion Starter · #18 · May 8, 2006

Holy cow, now that looks like a project! Yeah, I guess I'll have to do some research on the Fullrangedriver link and find one that looks good. The thing is, I don't design speakers- at least not yet. So, I need something with a defined design and published plans. Then I can follow that. It's really a test of my cabinet building/ finishing techniques.

Taperwood

· #19 · May 8, 2006

It's truly a stunning piece of work, no?

The whole single driver thing is about building what sounds good to you. Going from an established design or building up from one is the way to go. Pick your driver first, though.

Don't be afraid to prototype in rigid insulating foam, using a glue gun and tape. It's a cheap and fast assessment, and you can reuse the pieces when you are done. The midrange and highs you get will be quite close to an actual build as long as you don't push the volume over 75 dB. Bass under 100Hz will be somewhat sloppy, however, but at least you will get an idea.

Doug

jonathanb3478

· #20 · May 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinobiwan
Your really only limited by imagination and given enough time anything is possible regardless of skill. What you don't know can be learned with time.

This is what I was thinking, but it is good to hear it from some one else

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigguyZ
The thing is, I don't design speakers- at least not yet. So, I need something with a defined design and published plans.

This is exactly where I am at at the moment, too. I plan to get the single speaker "parts only kit" for the SA-1 from madisound.com

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...28854&pid=2073

For $215, I can get the drivers to make sure that I am building the enclosure with all the right clearances/dimensions, and the crossover that works properly with the drivers. Then I can go hog-wild with the enclosure.

If I can do it, I can then order another parts-only single kit from madisound, and have a finished pair of speakers. A finished pair of SA-1 speakers is not my actual goal, however.

My eventual goal is to make a Selah Audio (designed the SA-1) "Peridot" kit.

http://www.selahaudio.com/id96.html

I want a particular enclosure style, however. I believe the best lines on an enclosure I have ever seen in person are the lines of the Signature 805 I saw some years ago. I want an enclosure with similar lines. I have attached an image of the enclosure outline I am looking to make. The actual dimensions would be 13.5" X 19.25". The first 1.5" from the left edge of the image would be the baffle. The outline after the first 1.5" would be a 1.25" thick laminated enclosure wall (10 X 1/8" layers) wrapped around the internal frame I will use to create the shape I want.

I will be building a prototype of the enclosure that I want to put the Peridot kit into for the SA-1. The whole SA-1 project is, essentially, just a proof-of-concept for the Peridot project. I could care less how the SA-1 sounds when I am done, but I will do my best to get the best sound possible out of the SA-1 in the prototype Peridot enclosures. I will work with Rick at Selah Audio to help make sure I do not screw up anything major

I expect good things. We will see, however. It is also convenient that the SA-1 uses the same ribbon tweeter as the Peridot, and that the largest driver on the SA-1 is only a bit smaller than the largest used in the Peridot design.

Sorry to ramble about my own plans for so long, but everyone I know around here wants to commit me for a 72 hour psych eval just for having the idea

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