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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys I just want to share some speculation here on something weird I've been noticing. I could be very wrong here but for some reason I have reason to believe that the latest movies encoded with DTS-HD MA have a lower subwoofer output.


For instance, Ridley Scotts Robin Hood, I could barely make out any bass in that movie. So much that I started going back to earlier catalogue titles in my collection to verify if my sub was broken. When I put on Minority Report and Tom Cruise uses those pulsar guns it verified to me that my sub was fine and I was getting tight loud bass. I put on any title that's been put out in the last 6 or so months that is DTS-HD MA and I hear lack of bass.


Take for instance the newly reissued copy of Gladiator. In the DVD version when the chariot hits the wall at the colosseum I use to get earth shaking bass. In the bluray its much more tame and less noticeable. I don't know whats going on, maybe its my ears but I sense a problem some where.


Anybody have any ideas? or has anybody notice this?
 

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I thought I was the only one who realized the loss of bass in various Blu Ray titles. Here's another example. In Saving Private Ryan, when they're defending the town near the end. The tank blows up the building where Private Ryan was lying near. Now on the regular (not Blu Ray) disc in DTS surround, the blast has a bass punch that is felt in the seat of your pants and in your chest. But, on the Blu Ray it's really lacking the bottom. Then not too much after that part, when the germans are chasing them and you see them running near the large plate glass windows when a bomb drops and one of the soldiers is blown into the window. When the bomb explodes it gives a nice deep and solid booom that rocks my room and then the guy is thrown into the window.


I really enjoy the visual appeal of Blu Ray but feel the audio has been comprimised on some discs. I thought it would be the other way around.


My system consists of:

Lexicon MC-8 Processor

Rotel RMB-1095 Power Amp 200w per channel x 5

Paradigm Studio 100 v2 w/ matching center and surrounds

Mirage BPS-400 Subwoofer w/ 2 x 12in woofers


So no doubt that I should be rocked on bass heavy scenes. Lol!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socio
perhaps it is a DTS HD MA specs issue.
It certainly not. The encoder does not make any changes to the track. If there was any change it happened at the source prior to the encoding.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prochambers
I thought I was the only one who realized the loss of bass in various Blu Ray titles. Here's another example. In Saving Private Ryan, when they're defending the town near the end. The tank blows up the building where Private Ryan was lying near. Now on the regular (not Blu Ray) disc in DTS surround, the blast has a bass punch that is felt in the seat of your pants and in your chest. But, on the Blu Ray it's really lacking the bottom. Then not too much after that part, when the germans are chasing them and you see them running near the large plate glass windows when a bomb drops and one of the soldiers is blown into the window. When the bomb explodes it gives a nice deep and solid booom that rocks my room and then the guy is thrown into the window.


I really enjoy the visual appeal of Blu Ray but feel the audio has been comprimised on some discs. I thought it would be the other way around.


My system consists of:

Lexicon MC-8 Processor

Rotel RMB-1095 Power Amp 200w per channel x 5

Paradigm Studio 100 v2 w/ matching center and surrounds

Mirage BPS-400 Subwoofer w/ 2 x 12in woofers


So no doubt that I should be rocked on bass heavy scenes. Lol!
I also notice this for Saving Private Ryan.


I also notice it for Predators.


There just seems to be a lack of omph! to a lot of these DTS-HD MA titles. I am blowing a sigh of relief that I am not the only one noticing this and I'm not going crazy or being to anal or worse....sound like I haven't got laid in years lmao.
 

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I wish I could verify this, but I've had to ditch my subwoofer since moving into an apartment. That being said, I wonder if this is indeed a problem or not. I remember (back in the day) when people would compare True-HD audio tracks to DTS-HD-MA ones and IIRC the general consensus was that the latter had the LFE signal boosted. So the question is,..


Is the LFE actually too low? Or are we just too used to boosted soundtracks and any attempt to balance things out seems wrong? Is bass for the sake of bass worth it beyond a demo standpoint?


However, if I might argue the flip side of the coin, there may actually be an issue when it comes to the mixing. The Walmart release of Transformers 2 comes to mind as it had a lower LFE output than the regular version of the film. Or the Eurpean release of Dance with Wolves that had the LFE mixed in with the Fronts rather than having it's own channel.


Either way, this requires some investigation, thanks for bringing this to people's attention Darth.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdssrugby /forum/post/19619973


The Walmart release of Transformers 2 comes to mind as it had a lower LFE output than the regular version of the film.

The entire soundtrack is 4dB lower than the regular version of Transformers 2.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdssrugby /forum/post/19619973


I wish I could verify this, but I've had to ditch my subwoofer since moving into an apartment. That being said, I wonder if this is indeed a problem or not. I remember (back in the day) when people would compare True-HD audio tracks to DTS-HD-MA ones and IIRC the general consensus was that the latter had the LFE signal boosted. So the question is,..


Is the LFE actually too low? Or are we just too used to boosted soundtracks and any attempt to balance things out seems wrong? Is bass for the sake of bass worth it beyond a demo standpoint?


However, if I might argue the flip side of the coin, there may actually be an issue when it comes to the mixing. The Walmart release of Transformers 2 comes to mind as it had a lower LFE output than the regular version of the film. Or the Eurpean release of Dance with Wolves that had the LFE mixed in with the Fronts rather than having it's own channel.


Either way, this requires some investigation, thanks for bringing this to people's attention Darth.

I think the problem is in the mixing, take for instance that chariot hitting the wall scene on the Gladiator Bluray. Like I said, on the DVD DTS track you can feel it, its a thump! On the bluray version, no matter how much you raise the bass it does not have that same sonic quality, sure the bass gets louder but the tone is all wrong.


Have you tried investing in butt kickers for your system? I just invested in some and though I have yet to experience them I hear they are a great alternative if you cant have a sub.
 

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People who are used to the bass in DTS please see this quote as a reminder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler /forum/post/16332114

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsb /forum/post/16331725


Mr. Dressler - What's your objective feeling on the 640k DD track versus the 1509k DTS track?


If they came from identical sources and had their levels exactly matched, which would be superior? Why?

Well, my subjective feeling is that neither would be superior to the other. It would take some rather unusual circumstances to identify one from the other in a proper blind test. Having never participated in one of those, this is as far as I can say. The one area where a sound difference can be identified, if the source material tickles it, is in the LFE channel. The DTS encoder rolls it off above 90 Hz, while Dolby's LFE filter can be either 120 Hz or "off" which extends the bandwidth to around 500 Hz. Given identical material with sufficient LFE spectra, some folks hear the difference as "deeper, tighter" bass from DTS. Many would prefer that, even though it's not how the master sounded. This has nothing to do with bitrate or coding quality, however.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger /forum/post/19622856


Walmart had the exclusive IMAX version for Blu-ray, both audio and video were different from the normal Blu-ray.

Oh, wow. Thanks for the info. I just looked it up on Amazon. It's going for a good price if anyone is still interested in it.
 

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Transf 2 was simply a dialog norm issue if I remember correctly...........the mix was identical, but you just had to raise the IMAX/WalMart version by 4db to get it to the same level as the non IMAX version.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeAd MiKe 187 /forum/post/19622804


Wait... What? Walmart has a different encode of 'Transformers 2' with the soundtrack at a lower volume?

Yes, the DTS track on the "Big Screen" edition has dialnorm, so it plays back 4dB lower than the regular version. Of course turning up the volume 4dB eliminates that difference.
Quote:
I just looked it up on Amazon. It's going for a good price if anyone is still interested in it.

Worth it for the forest battle.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca
People who are used to the bass in DTS please see this quote as a reminder.
Those comments are for the lossy encodes of the 2 codecs. The roll of above 90hz on the lossy DTS tracks would be in most case inaudible, and no longer applies to the HD MA extension.
 
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