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One of the problems with the "real world" testing of the tuner capability that people do for their comparisons is that they do not measure what it is that they are comparing.  If tuner A works better in a system than tuner B, one cannot infer from that alone that tuner A is better in every way, nor even that it is generally better.  Some tuners are overloaded more easily than others, so if the system has an amplifier for the antenna, it may be that the input is being overloaded in one but not the other (and so it may be that the one that is being overloaded would work fine without the antenna amplifier).  Some tuners are better with weak signals than others, and so if it is instead a case of the signal being weak, the one with the ability to deal with a weak signal will be better.  Then there is the issue of multipath problems, which some tuners handle better than others.  In other words, there are several aspects of tuner performance to be considered, and so one working better than another in one situation is no guarantee of it being generally better or better in other circumstances.

 

It would be good if CM gave specifications for the tuner performance, but such matters seem to be ignored these days, unlike for FM tuners of the past, when companies bragged about how great their tuners were in some way or other.

 

Judging from the fact that no one seems to have posted any measurements and real comparisons with other TV tuners, it would appear that the people posting here do not have the equipment or the ability (or both) for real testing.  Of course, it would take time and trouble (as well as equipment and knowledge) to do this, so it may be that someone has just not bothered with doing it who could.

 

Additionally, of course, one would need to make allowances for the fact that one might get hold of a defective unit, leading to measurements that are not representative of the model's normal performance.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theducksfan2010  /t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/2730#post_24501659

 

As much as I like my DVR+, 6 of the last 7 and 9 of the last 11 scheduled recordings have failed between yesterday and today.

 

After all, whats the point of a DVR, if it doesn't record scheduled shows???????
 

Frankly, I would punt if it missed any recordings if I didn't know of a valid reason or solution. Since 2000 the DVRs I have used have missed less than a handful of recordings as they should. 
 At the same time I'd simply feel that was my experience and not necessarily everyone's and move on.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack D Ripper  /t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/2760#post_24503054


One of the problems with the "real world" testing of the tuner capability that people do for their comparisons is that they do not measure what it is that they are comparing.  If tuner A works better in a system than tuner B, one cannot infer from that alone that tuner A is better in every way, nor even that it is generally better.  Some tuners are overloaded more easily than others, so if the system has an amplifier for the antenna, it may be that the input is being overloaded in one but not the other (and so it may be that the one that is being overloaded would work fine without the antenna amplifier).  Some tuners are better with weak signals than others, and so if it is instead a case of the signal being weak, the one with the ability to deal with a weak signal will be better.  Then there is the issue of multipath problems, which some tuners handle better than others.  In other words, there are several aspects of tuner performance to be considered, and so one working better than another in one situation is no guarantee of it being generally better or better in other circumstances.


It would be good if CM gave specifications for the tuner performance, but such matters seem to be ignored these days, unlike for FM tuners of the past, when companies bragged about how great their tuners were in some way or other.


Judging from the fact that no one seems to have posted any measurements and real comparisons with other TV tuners, it would appear that the people posting here do not have the equipment or the ability (or both) for real testing.  Of course, it would take time and trouble (as well as equipment and knowledge) to do this, so it may be that someone has just not bothered with doing it who could.


Additionally, of course, one would need to make allowances for the fact that one might get hold of a defective unit, leading to measurements that are not representative of the model's normal performance.
you could do your homework before such long post and do real help in the sub-discussion,

I did tear down of the model, gave you the tuner chip model ... why not make search in Internet and bring to us its parameters/specs ?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiscojim  /t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/2760#post_24503074


6. Type and quality of connectors (gold, chrome, twist-on, compression, etc.).


7. Type and quality of cable (59, 6, 6QS, etc.).


8. Brand and specs of the splitters.


9. Lots of other variables depending on the answers above.


!0. Let's just forget it and say the setup situation is not ideal, and have REMAC take his question over to an antenna setup forum, and get it out of here!


.
the list is secondary to measurements ... let give him time to bring SS/SQ numbers with/without the splitter, that would be necessary basic measurement, it would provide initial level for future clarifications ...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiscojim  /t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/2760#post_24503074


6. Type and quality of connectors (gold, chrome, twist-on, compression, etc.).


7. Type and quality of cable (59, 6, 6QS, etc.).


8. Brand and specs of the splitters.


9. Lots of other variables depending on the answers above.


!0. Let's just forget it and say the setup situation is not ideal, and have REMAC take his question over to an antenna setup forum, and get it out of here!


.

Good points! I deleted my post since I agree that this forum is not the place to discuss this issue in detail and it should be taken up with the other forum you mention.
 

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Still having trouble with the clock. Had trouble with the manual clock so I switched to auto clock and now that is running 5 minutes fast. So now I am switching back to manual clock. My recording of Dancing with the (suppose to be) Stars started after the show started, and that was with a 3 minute pre roll.


Did somebody mention being able to pick the channel for the auto clock?


I would call CM but I know they will tell me to do a Factory Reset or offer me a cash refund.
 

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For everyone who is having trouble with reception (tuner) you might try checking out your specific city or area for a forum. I know in my area (Seattle) we have a specific thread. On ours there are several people who are quite good at helping with all sorts of reception problems. I am not particularly savvy at all the nuances but suffice it to say that even in good reception areas there are problems with multipath and dropout, even having too much signal can be a problem. If you have no one else to ask you might try a guy in our area who seems to know the entire region quite well. He may know someone in your area that can help you. His name is DanKurts and that is who you might want to send a PM to for his thoughts. He is very nice and has helped many people with reception problems. I doubt he will know your area but he may know someone who does. He may also be able to give you some general reception thoughts. He may even be able to do some general references for antennas. Good luck.
 

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 @tmn1

I think most of us with reception issues, know that it its based on the DVR + tuners. That is usually verified the quality of reception on the same TV and others without using the DVR +
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R  /t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/2760#post_24503132


Frankly, I would punt if it missed any recordings if I didn't know of a valid reason or solution. Since 2000 the DVRs I have used have missed less than a handful of recordings as they should. 
 At the same time I'd simply feel that was my experience and not necessarily everyone's and move on.

I have missed shows before, and it has recorded the wrong channel as well. But missing 8 out of 9 in 2 days?? That's the straw that broke the camels back. The DVR + is being returned.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theducksfan2010  /t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/2760#post_24503877


I have missed shows before, and had it record the wrong channel ass well. But missing 8 out of 9 in 2 days?? That's the straw that broke the camels back. The DVR + is being returned.

What's the reason it gives for missing the shows?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theducksfan2010  /t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/2760#post_24503863

@tmn1

I think most of us with reception issues, know that it its based on the DVR + tuners. That is usually verified the quality of reception on the same TV and others without using the DVR +
Perhaps you missed the point of my message. I am not suggesting the tuners are not different than some other tuners. What I am suggesting is that in the case where you might actually want to use the DVR+ there may be a fairly simple solution. If you just feel the need to vent then ... have a good day.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell_  /t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/2760#post_24503943


What's the reason it gives for missing the shows?

The only reason it gives is failed. Funny thing, after the failed recordings, I did a full Rescan, I went from 75 channels to 46. And no, the list channels were not the channels scheduled to record, and they still come in on my TV (same final strength and quality, on the same feed)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theducksfan2010  /t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/2760#post_24504046


The only reason it gives is failed. Funny thing, after the failed recordings, I did a full Rescan, I went from 75 channels to 46. And no, the list channels were not the channels scheduled to record, and they still come in on my TV (same final strength and quality, on the same feed)

Did you try pressing the INFO button on any of the failed recordings? I looked through my list but fortunately for me and unfortunately for this post I didn't have any failed recordings and can't verify whether pressing the INFO button provides a reason.
 

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has anyone experienced problems connecting or reconnecting to wireless with the cm usb adapter since the 103 firmware update? My update went fine using the stock wireless adapter, just let it download and install. Can't really tell what it fixed although I never really had problems except initially with the wireless. I have noticed something strange with the wireless signal (very strong signal, only 15 ft from access point, no other wireless interference or rogue ap's) This probably will not affect the guide updates but may affect someone who uses the vudu channel (if I am assuming correctly that it is a stream) I have a wireless network monitor running and it shows that the dvr+ is dropping the connection a couple times a day and then reconnecting a minute later. For me it doesn't matter and the guide update is not the cause, that happens at a different time. I haven't seen this behavior with any of my other wireless devices (nothing else running wireless when these events occurred). Could cause a problem if streaming but only been monitoring for last few days, wish I had this tool before the firmware update. Curious as to why this would happen. So far only a couple times a day, other than that very stable the rest of the time
 

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 @Russell_


I will when I get home. Alfred Hitchcock presents was starting 10 minutes after I found out about the failed recordings, so I scheduled it, and it did record.
 

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i discovered there is a difference, at least for me awhile back, between wireless connection (always has showed connected with good signal) but did not have an internet connection.

I've been stable with internet connection the few times i've looked, and guide updates every day around 7pm.


CM agreed the device has trouble with consistent internet connection and it was not just me. (for what's it worth)


My internet connection seemed to go south every time i tried to upgrade via wireless....ended up using mem stick.


All has been good since upgrade and changing out my HDD due to playbacks freezing. Root cause to me was I disconnected the HDD USB with all devices powered on while using mem stick.

But no proof.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL  /t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/2730#post_24501973


Yes but I think he owns both the PALDVR and DVR+ so he could do a real world test in his house to see which device tunes in stations better.


From own real world at MY LOCATION I have seen major differences in reception using the same antenna and devices from time to time. One station that reception was in the 90's all of a sudden I lost for about 6 months and then it came back. That was an extreme example of the many changes I see with OTA reception.


The other issue is that you can't compare the DVR+ saying channel 2 is at 90% and the PALDVR says it is at 85% and then conclude that the DVR+ has a better tuner. Those measurements are not really comparable.
I also own a HDHomeRun and four Simple DVRs, a Windows PC full of ATI tuners, and seven televisions. I use the HDHomeRun to measure the signal available to the other devices since it provides Signal Strength, Signal Quality, and Symbol Quality. (It's also great for pointing since you can monitor two channels concurrently with any laptop of tablet.)


Too much signal can be as devastating as too little and Symbol Quality is king.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wizwor  /t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/2760#post_24504259


I also own a HDHomeRun and four Simple DVRs, a Windows PC full of ATI tuners, and seven televisions. I use the HDHomeRun to measure the signal available to the other devices since it provides Signal Strength, Signal Quality, and Symbol Quality. (It's also great for pointing since you can monitor two channels concurrently with any laptop of tablet.)


Too much signal can be as devastating as too little and Symbol Quality is king.
pardon my confusion: is it actually BER ?
seq = symbol error quality (number of uncorrectable digital errors detected)

look alike ...

I found in API doc something what you could try: hdhomerun_config FFFFFFFF get /tuner0/debug

.
 

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This is the best explanation I have found...
Quote:
Signal Strength (ss)

- raw power level as measured by the receiver


Signal Quality (snq)

- how clearly defined the digital data is


Symbol Quality (seq)

- Amount of correct or corrected data over the last second


The above definitions can be confusing, so a much simpler definition is to imagine listening to the radio:

- Signal Strength represents the volume

- Signal Quality represents how clearly you can hear the lyrics

- Symbol Quality indicates the percentage of the lyrics you could hear or guess correctly


As it turns out, Signal Strength is somewhat irrelevant; if your antenna isn't pointed properly, it doesn't matter how loud you turn up the volume, the static will prevent you from hearing the lyrics correctly. Similarly, amplifying a weak HDTV signal can result in a high signal strength but too much noise to decode the digital data correctly.
 
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