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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3480#post_24698340" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Kelson</strong> <a href="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3480#post_24698340"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
Just one thing to try. Go into your channel list and delete any and all sub-channels that you are never going to watch -- especially those that do not have a station icon which means they don't get RoVi data and use PSIP.<br><br>
Do that. Maybe another cold boot and see what that does for you.</div>
</div>
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I did the channel cleanout the other night. I deleted about 30 channels out of 51.<br><br>
No improvement.<br><br>
I'll try pulling the plug again for another cold reboot. If that doesn't work, I'll try a Factory Reset (<i>shudder</i>).<br><br>
And yes, I'm getting tired of this. Some of us would be happy to be back in the relative paradise of 101R. I downloaded 106R because of the problems caused by 103R (downloaded against my will).<br><br>
--DawnSun
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3480#post_24698409" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>kent2174</strong> <a href="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3480#post_24698409"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
How could the sluggishness issue not be seen by the firmware testers during UAT?</div>
</div>
<br><b><i><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Good point!</span></i></b>......<br>
Makes you wonder what's going on with the (so-called) experts involved in this project!<br>
......if they're not going to get it right, then it's <b><i>absolutely pointless</i></b> to make it available (until it's right)!!<br><b><i><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Interesting</span></i></b>.....the unit wasn't ready for primetime!.....now the new firmware seems to be <b><i>hurting more than helping!!*.....yikes</i>!!:</b><img alt="eek.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.avsforum.com/images/smilies/eek.gif"><br>
*with the exception of the time instabilty
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3480#post_24698822" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>slprp1</strong> <a href="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3480#post_24698822"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br><div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3480#post_24698409" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>kent2174</strong> <a href="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3480#post_24698409"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
How could the sluggishness issue not be seen by the firmware testers during UAT?</div>
</div>
<br><b><i><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Good point!</span></i></b>......<br>
Makes you wonder what's going on with the (so-called) experts involved in this project!<br>
......if they're not going to get it right, then it's <b><i>absolutely pointless</i></b> to make it available (until it's right)!!<br><b><i><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Interesting</span></i></b>.....the unit wasn't ready for primetime!.....now the new firmware seems to be <b><i>hurting more than helping!!*.....yikes</i>!!:</b><img alt="eek.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.avsforum.com/images/smilies/eek.gif"><br>
*with the exception of the time instabilty</div>
</div>
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Besides the clock being fixed, I've also not experienced the wrong channel being taped (which would happen to be before). Unlike the clock issue which is easy to "measure", only time will tell if the wrong channel issue has been addressed.<br><br>
I for one have not experienced the sluggish guide issue. Keep in mind that people experiencing an issue always tend to post more often than those who do not. So, if the testers' experiences were like mine I can understand how it did not get caught by the testers.<br><br>
So, to me, 106R is the best version yet. And, what's encouraging is there's no mention from Kelson (the guy with the inside track) that 106R is the final release ... I take that to mean there are more goodies to come.
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3480#post_24698639" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>DawnSun</strong> <a href="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3480#post_24698639"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
I did the channel cleanout the other night. I deleted about 30 channels out of 51.<br><br>
No improvement.<br><br>
I'll try pulling the plug again for another cold reboot. If that doesn't work, I'll try a Factory Reset (<i>shudder</i>).<br><br>
And yes, I'm getting tired of this. Some of us would be happy to be back in the relative paradise of 101R. I downloaded 106R because of the problems caused by 103R (downloaded against my will).<br><br>
--DawnSun</div>
</div>
<br>
FYI......<br>
I <b><i>never</i></b> had any real guide sluggishness with <b><i>previous</i></b> firmware versions. Therefore, I've <i>resisted</i> <b><i>downgrading</i></b> to 106R (soon enough, it will be "force fed" to me.....and others..... which is <b><i>very unfortunate)</i></b>!!<br>
I have <b><i>60</i></b> channels. <b><i>Most</i></b> of which are <b><i>PSIP</i></b> based! I haven't seen the need to delete channels (although, admittedly, I generally use no more than 15-20 of them).<br><i><b>Why should I have to</b></i>?<br>
If the unit were functioning <b><i>as it should</i></b>, we wouldn't have to deal with "<b><i>workarounds</i></b>" and (multiple) <b><i>excuses</i></b> from CM!!<br>
This is actually <b><i>truly pathetic</i></b>!!!<br>
Bottom line.....they send us new firmware to improve upon previous issues and basically proceed to <b><i>make things worse</i></b> (in terms of the sluggishness.....far worse!!).<br><i><b>C'mon guys</b></i>......can you <i>really</i> blame me for the rants about my frustration with this unit?<br>
Aren't you getting tired of dealing with this and making excuses for them? Am I the only one that's truly <b><i>running out of patience</i></b>?.....and let's not lose sight of the fact that I had (at least) <i>some faith</i> in the company and the product.....<i>enough to not return it!!<br></i>This was <i><b>truly</b></i> a "work in progress" and it's a <i><b>travesty</b></i> that their (true) <i><b>intention</b></i> was to use their customers as <i>"testers"</i> for this product!!<br>
.....at the <i><b>very least</b></i>, they need to work on this <i>sluggishness</i> "side effect" <b><i><span style="text-decoration:underline;">real fast!!!</span></i></b> <img alt="mad.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.avsforum.com/images/smilies/mad.gif">
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3480#post_24696454" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>JoeKustra</strong> <a href="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3480#post_24696454"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br><br>
Just some speculation: On CBS.COM and NBC.COM you will find both shows start at 11:30pm. I assume the delay is caused locally. Since Fallon took over, the time has been very "loose", with end time being late since I also record Seth Myers. I have seen no change in Letterman.<br><br>
I am using a TiVo that has a TMS guide.<br><br>
Have you tried your test on primetime shows? It might be better to check your clock before the recording, again speculation. TitanTV.com also shows both programs @11:35pm, so I feel the internet isn't a good reference. TVGuide.com shows a one minute difference in start times. Good Luck.</div>
</div>
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Thanks for your interest!....<br>
Yes, I've had this problem numerous times with primetime shows. The "Rovi" guide appears to be the most accurate (in my experience). My clock is always very accurate.<br>
......Have others noticed this problem (shows ending a minute or two early.....even with 2 minute "padding" at the end)??
 

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FYI Channel Master Mother's Day Special: "<b>Through Sunday, May 11, you can enjoy FREE SHIPPING on your entire order when you purchase the DVR+ from the Channel Master online store. Simply type in the coupon code: mom at the checkout screen and your free shipping option will populate in your cart. Purchase the DVR+ and any accessories this weekend, get free shipping on your entire order.</b>"
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3480#post_24698864" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Russell_</strong> <a href="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3480#post_24698864"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
Besides the clock being fixed, I've also not experienced the wrong channel being taped (which would happen to be before). Unlike the clock issue which is easy to "measure", only time will tell if the wrong channel issue has been addressed.<br><br>
I for one have not experienced the sluggish guide issue. Keep in mind that people experiencing an issue always tend to post more often than those who do not. So, if the testers' experiences were like mine I can understand how it did not get caught by the testers.<br><br>
So, to me, 106R is the best version yet. And, what's encouraging is there's no mention from Kelson (the guy with the inside track) that 106R is the final release ... I take that to mean there are more goodies to come.</div>
</div>
<br>
With all due respect.....I can live without their "goodies".....if they're going to have (the usual) <b>side</b> <b>effects</b>!!
 

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I have been reading this thread since its inception and have some comments/perspective to share. They say that we should learn from history and not repeat our mistakes but that doesn't always happen.<br><br>
I see a very similar pattern to what is going on now with the DVR+ as to what happened with the Dish DTVPal DVR when it was first introduced in December 2008. It was released with firmware version F201 after "some" alpha/beta testing and for some purchasers (including myself) worked fine right out of the box. For others the device was totally unstable and had numerous erratic reboots and would not keep accurate time especially in areas that lacked TVGOS and were PSIP only. About 4 months after its introduction, in April 2009, things got so bad that Dish suddenly stopped selling the DVRs. F202, F206 and F207 firmware versions were released publicly but none of those solved the major issues/problems with the DVR. Some of the newer firmware versions actually introduced problems that were not present in the previous versions! It wasn't until F208 was released in July 2009 that the DVR became useable for the masses.<br><br>
Fast forward to the introduction of the DVR+ with firmware 101R and the various issues being reported on this forum. They are now at firmware version 106R with some issues being reported as resolved while some new issues have apparently reared their ugly head. Sound familiar to what I posted above about the DTVPal DVR from 5 years ago? If history repeats itself they should get any major deal-breaker issues straightened out in a further firmware revision(s).<br><br>
For those who still have issues with the DVR+ I would absolutely upgrade to the latest firmware <b>AND</b> do a full factory reset just to clear out any "cobwebs" in your unit. I have cleared out MANY bizarre, intermittent and annoying problems over the years by doing a factory reset on my 2 DTVPal DVRs so don't skip that step. Any problems encountered afterwards should be reported to Channel Master technical support so that they can be relayed to the EchoStar engineers for resolution.<br><br>
The bottom line is that we, as consumers, should not have to go through this beta testing with newly purchased electronics but it is the reality of the situation. To put things in perspective, no matter how many beta testers Channel Master had before introducing this DVR+, there is no way for them to have accounted for all of the variables that would be encountered in the field environment. Things that vary from user to user include signal strength, multipath, PSIP issues like bad PSIP time, Wi-Fi signal, brand and size of external hard drive, number of local channels/sub-channels, proximity to multiple DMAs, proximity to multiple time zones, etc., etc. With all of those variables and combinations thereof you can see where problems might surface and have to be addressed in further firmware revisions.<br><br>
FWIW just my 2 cents on the subject.....
 

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adding to that - developers of the K77 device [HDT-610R in UK and DVR+ here now ] reside in UK and physically cannot do beta testing in conditions close to real our [US] environment
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3500_100#post_24700686" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>trp2525</strong> <a href="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3500_100#post_24700686"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
I see a very similar pattern to what is going on now with the DVR+ as to what happened with the Dish DTVPal DVR when it was first introduced in December 2008 . . . About 4 months after its introduction, in April 2009, things got so bad that Dish suddenly stopped selling the DVRs.</div>
</div>
Despite the issues some people are having, I think it safe to say the DVR+ is not in such a sorry state that would put it in danger of being taken down from the market for a couple months. In that respect it is far ahead of the Pal DVR.<br><br>
People want to compare the developing DVR+ to the Pal with final F208 firmware. Not really a fair comparison.
 
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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3480#post_24700686" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>trp2525</strong> <a href="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3480#post_24700686"><img alt="View Post" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
The bottom line is that we, as consumers, should not have to go through this beta testing with newly purchased electronics but it is the reality of the situation.</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<p>Disagree. That is why they offer returns. You have more than enough time to see if the device is suited for your requirements. If it doesn't meet <em>your standards</em> you only have yourself to blame. As I stated long ago concerning the exact same rant if they had to wait to release a product until it worked in every situation nothing would ever be released.</p>
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3510#post_24700980" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Charles R</strong> <a href="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3510#post_24700980"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
Disagree. That is why they offer returns. You have more than enough time to see if the device is suited for your requirements. If it doesn't meet <i>your standards</i> you only have yourself to blame. As I stated long ago concerning the exact same rant if they had to wait to release a product until it worked in every situation nothing would ever be released.</div>
</div>
Well, not quite - my Sony flat screen (LCD) HDTV is 6 or 7 years old now and I got it long before most of the digital stations in the Philly area were even on the air, and certainly before those that were had transitioned to their permanent RF channels. It has never had a firmware upgrade, and I don't even know how one would be done if it were possible. Yet it continues to work with every new station and/or subchannel that comes on the air (we've got 50+ now). The composite, component, HDMI, and VGA inputs work with everything I've thrown at them. In short, it was released, yet from all appearances it works in every situation. Clever those Japanese (and it was probably from before Sony started outsourcing to the Chinese too.)
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3510#post_24701779" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>frank70</strong> <a href="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3510#post_24701779"><img alt="View Post" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><br>
Yet it continues to work with every new station and/or subchannel that comes on the air (we've got 50+ now).</div>
</div>
<p><br>
As does the DVR+ for many as posted here.</p>
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3480#post_24700686" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>trp2525</strong> <a href="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3480#post_24700686"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
The bottom line is that we, as consumers, should not have to go through this beta testing with newly purchased electronics but it is the reality of the situation. To put things in perspective, no matter how many beta testers Channel Master had before introducing this DVR+, there is no way for them to have accounted for all of the variables that would be encountered in the field environment. Things that vary from user to user include signal strength, multipath, PSIP issues like bad PSIP time, Wi-Fi signal, brand and size of external hard drive, number of local channels/sub-channels, proximity to multiple DMAs, proximity to multiple time zones, etc., etc. With all of those variables and combinations thereof you can see where problems might surface and have to be addressed in further firmware revisions.<br><br>
FWIW just my 2 cents on the subject.....</div>
</div>
<br>
Some good observations and suggestions.....some innacuracies.<br>
For example.....the DTVpal DVR wasn't pulled from the market after 4 months. It was still a thriving product when F208 was released and remained on the market beyond that point.<br>
Additionally, I have two of them and never needed to do a factory reset. It's not necessarily a bad idea but becomes essential only when a unit is loaded with bugs (as with the DVR+). My DTVpals came with F208 pre-loaded and were close to perfection (until they ruined it by discontinuing TVGOS and forcing us to rely on PSIP, which is a nightmare!). Sure, the DVR+ has some niceties that the DTVpal didn't have but overall....."If it ain't broke, don't fix it"!<br><b>BTW</b>....the beta-testers <b>are</b> in the field and are supposed to be using these units in the "field environment" -and- I agree with you (and have stated this all along) that we shouldn't have to contend with all if this beta testing.....or even worse.....<b>be</b> the beta testers ourselves!<br>
They chose to rush this unit to market and the (negative) results of this are unfolding every day!
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3480#post_24700779" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Kelson</strong> <a href="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3480#post_24700779"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br><br>
People want to compare the developing DVR+ to the Pal with final F208 firmware. Not really a fair comparison.</div>
</div>
<br>
Why isn't it a fair comparison?<br>
......What happened to <b>learning</b> from previous mistakes and/or <b>not</b> releasing a "developing" product to the marketplace (to be beta tested by the consumers)!
 

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LOL. Cries of "beta test" are from people living in the past. What tech product does not receive updates? From cars to bluray players to routers to operating systems. LOL.<br><br>
At least you can get updates. Many products are saddled with whatever you get at launch.
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3510#post_24702213" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>mishmosh</strong> <a href="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3510#post_24702213"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
LOL. Cries of "beta test" are from people living in the past. What tech product does not receive updates? From cars to bluray players to routers to operating systems. LOL.<br><br>
At least you can get updates. Many products are saddled with whatever you get at launch.</div>
</div>
<br>
Updates are cool (and often welcome).<br>
......However, having to basically re-design a product, due to poor feature implementation and technical performance (<b>after</b> it's already on the market) is not!
 

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May I make a <b>bold</b> request?<br><br>
How about only using the bold feature when you really need to emphasize something, slprp1? Otherwise, it makes posts <b>choppy</b> to <b>read</b>, IM<b>H</b>O...
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3510#post_24702213" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>mishmosh</strong> <a href="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3510#post_24702213"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
LOL. Cries of "beta test" are from people living in the past. What tech product does not receive updates? From cars to bluray players to routers to operating systems. LOL.</div>
</div>
<br>
Yes, and the ability to issue updates has proven to be one of the worst developments in software history. Back when updates were impossible, companies were forced to test their products thoroughly and release them in a functional and bug-free state. Now that updates are possible, few companies bother to test their products or even finish them before the launch date, as they just assume they can release updates later to complete software functionality that they should have included in the first place.<br><div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3510#post_24702213" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>mishmosh</strong> <a href="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3510#post_24702213"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
At least you can get updates. Many products are saddled with whatever you get at launch.</div>
</div>
<br>
...and back in the days of VCRs, they worked correctly. Any company that released a non-functional VCR would have been out of business in a hurry when its competitors' products worked correctly out of the box. Now that Internet updates exist, companies have an incentive to be lazy and release unfinished products.
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3510#post_24702644" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Aleron Ives</strong> <a href="/t/1481183/channel-master-dvr-owners-thread/3510#post_24702644"><img alt="View Post" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><br>
Yes, and the ability to issue updates has proven to be one of the worst developments in software history. Back when updates were impossible, companies were forced to test their products thoroughly and release them in a functional and bug-free state. </div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<p>Rather they were forced to release (very) simplistic products. Trying to compare today's tech products to back in the day is completely unrealistic and illogical. Heck most tech toys nowadays have more power and sophistication than Apollo 11.</p>
 
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