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If you go back about 3500 posts :), to when AVSF users first started receiving product, you'll find glowing reviews of the tuners.

When I saw there was another 3500 posts to get to here, I decided to skip to the end.


Unfortunately, I'm in a marginal location. It shouldn't be. Save a few close-by trees (which may be the problem--but that doesn't account for wintertime): I'm at an elevation that looks "down" on all the towers, which are in a 12° arc of one another, about 14-16 miles away. Nonetheless: Reception can be problematical--particularly if it's storming, the wind is blowing or planes are flying overhead (we have an airport about one mile to the north, as the crow flies).


With the Winegard FlatWave Amped antenna I'm testing, things are much better, it seems. But the new (eight years ago) Winegard HD7078P VHF/UHF antenna on the roof has never done well. (Belden RG-6, all the way, weather-proof compression connectors crimped with a DataShark. [I used to be a "radio guy."])

Unfortunately: Short of putting up a tower: I've no other outside antenna options. And I'm not certain that would help. The symptoms kind of suggest reflections are the problem (the grade continues rising by an additional 400' or so [?] behind the antenna), which might explain why the inside antenna is actually working better than the outside one.


That's unfortunate :(


That's what I'll have to do.

If the tuner works well on receipt, can I expect it will continue to do so?

Jim
There's a very good possibility that the tuners in the DVR+ can be easily overloaded. It's been noted that they can be quite fussy and seem to have a limited threshold with strong signals.
That may explain why an antenna such as the Winegard may actually produce better results (with weaker signal).
You also need to consider the deterioration of your roof antenna and the fact that coax cable will also deteriorate over time.
 

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I appreciate the continued discussion on the DVR+ tuner.

As with much, it's all relative I guess. As for me, my TV Fool report was not good. A fellow poster here (another thread) commented that he finally saw one worse than his... After a couple of weeks of experimenting, I was getting the major networks and desired channels: ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX and PBS, using two antennas - ClearStream 4 and the RCA ANT751. I'm running the RCA TVPRAMP1R, and since adding that, those have been rock solid. With a DVR, I felt pretty good that cord-cutting can commence at the new home...

For me, I found the DVR+ the most desirable. Now having the unit, I made a wise choice with respect to the features. Exactly what I was after. Just dang unfortunate that I've lost my FOX and CBS!

From reading of various accounts, it seems that Samsung TV's have very good OTA tuners. This is my reference point, unfortunately.

I figured someone would comment on the 6' shortening of the coax (RG6, double shield), as I agree that it's minimal; but certainly better than adding 6 feet. And, from a run % perspective, rather large. My previous run from the TV to the mast-mounted preamp, about 25 feet. Since my A/V equipment, including the DVR+ now, are about 6' closer to the antenna, the run is now less than 20 feet.

I have power up in the attic, so I could put the preamp's power injector more near the antenna. That might help a little, but would require some modification to replace the preamp's short coax out with a longer run. Loss on just a few feet of RG6 is very minimal though...

If CM has a "better" tuner, I wish they would have used it in the DVR+.

As I recall, the DVR+ uses somewhat dated HDMI and USB, right? 1.2 and 2.0, respectively... Most products sold these days have more current standards. I was totally fine with that, so long as it works well, and it does. But, maybe the reason for doing so was cost-savings, and if so, maybe not the most desirable tuner was utilized in this first release. Just thinking out loud...

Again, I plan to make time to do some antenna pointing again, hoping that a different trajectory will produce better results with this tuner.

If I can't get those channels back, I'm pretty sure I'll decide to revert back to the direct TV connection, and no DVR+. I would patiently wait for a DVR+2 of sorts, probably a year out, which sucks. I would imagine that such a product will have the newest standards in HDMI and USB, and most importantly, at least for folks like me, a different tuner to better capture those fringe channels...
 

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For me, I found the DVR+ the most desirable. Now having the unit, I made a wise choice with respect to the features. Exactly what I was after. Just dang unfortunate that I've lost my FOX and CBS!
I doubt this will help, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Have you tried looking through ALL of the channels that the DVR+ picked up on its scan? I say this because here in Chicago, CBS transmits on channel 2.1. However, the DVR+ picked up another channel with CBS, 100.1, which actually has a slightly better picture. The weird thing is that both are the Chicago station, WBBM. Take a look at the list of channels in the DVR+, to see if there's another channel for your FOX and CBS. Also, have you tried re-scanning?
 

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I doubt this will help, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Have you tried looking through ALL of the channels that the DVR+ picked up on its scan? I say this because here in Chicago, CBS transmits on channel 2.1. However, the DVR+ picked up another channel with CBS, 100.1, which actually has a slightly better picture. The weird thing is that both are the Chicago station, WBBM. Take a look at the list of channels in the DVR+, to see if there's another channel for your FOX and CBS. Also, have you tried re-scanning?
Fantastic input, thank you.

I did an initial scan, and as I generally like to do, a scan about a minute later, just to make sure... After that, which was about a week ago, I have not re-scanned.

Going up on the roof in a bit to confirm that the antennas are still pointing where they should. I have somewhat a temporary set-up at the time during this experimentation stage. A more permanent mast and mounting situation is slated for this weekend...

That all said, according to my TV Fool Report, I think these might be my best chances to get FOX (44) and CBS (29)...

If interested: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=e1c63a8f99b9a8
 

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Note:
CM has a free WIFI offer for 4th of July promotion - free shipping is not there.
Saw that too. For reference, shipping to the SF Bay Area would have been a little over 11 dollars. I got the free shipping special... With the $11 savings, I picked-up a wifi dongle, and it's working like a champ...

Got the UHF antenna pointed a bit more accurately, but not much. Some of coax fittings were not snug though! Re-scanning now. Hoping...

Can a software update possibly improve the unit's ability to tune and / or influence the reception? I'm guessing not, but figured I'd ask...
 

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Note:
CM has a free WIFI offer for 4th of July promotion - free shipping is not there.
I just pulled the trigger. Took advantage of the free WiFi offer. Didn't see the free shipping, so I called them. You get one or the other--not both. Since I wanted 2nd Day shipping, anyway (their rate is actually pretty good), I took the WiFi adapter.

So now I'll find out, for myself, just how good this thing is :)

Jim
 

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I just pulled the trigger. Took advantage of the free WiFi offer. Didn't see the free shipping, so I called them. You get one or the other--not both. Since I wanted 2nd Day shipping, anyway (their rate is actually pretty good), I took the WiFi adapter.

So now I'll find out, for myself, just how good this thing is :)

Jim
Nice Jim. If you are in a good reception location, I bet you'll like the DVR+ a lot.
 

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Saw that too. For reference, shipping to the SF Bay Area would have been a little over 11 dollars. I got the free shipping special... With the $11 savings, I picked-up a wifi dongle, and it's working like a champ...

Got the UHF antenna pointed a bit more accurately, but not much. Some of coax fittings were not snug though! Re-scanning now. Hoping...

Can a software update possibly improve the unit's ability to tune and / or influence the reception? I'm guessing not, but figured I'd ask...
Assuming that your version is 108R, you would already have the latest version.
Insofar as re-scanning is concerned, it won't help to improve pre-existing channels. It would only be necessary to re-scan if you're changing the orientation of your antenna (in the event that you might be grabbing other frequencies).
 

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I just pulled the trigger. Took advantage of the free WiFi offer. Didn't see the free shipping, so I called them. You get one or the other--not both. Since I wanted 2nd Day shipping, anyway (their rate is actually pretty good), I took the WiFi adapter.

So now I'll find out, for myself, just how good this thing is :)

Jim
Hope that you have good results with it!
 

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Assuming that your version is 108R, you would already have the latest version.
Insofar as re-scanning is concerned, it won't help to improve pre-existing channels. It would only be necessary to re-scan if you're changing the orientation of your antenna (in the event that you might be grabbing other frequencies).
Yup, 108R. As a general question, can these software updates improve what the tuner is able to secure, or make a channel that was previously unwatchable, stable and watchable?

Only re-scanning after I make orientation changes on the antenna. Just moving one as the other one is only being tasked to get one channel in the opposite direction, and it's fine with that easy get...
 

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Yup, 108R. As a general question, can these software updates improve what the tuner is able to secure, or make a channel that was previously unwatchable, stable and watchable?
Not to my knowledge.
Just for the record......
Prior to purchasing the DVR+, I contacted CM regarding tuner capabilities. I was told initially that the tuners used in the DVR+ were as good or better than their own CM-7000 DTA box (the gold standard, in my opinion, for tuner performance).
Although the DVR+ is somewhat decent in this area (I'm being generous!), it doesn't meet or exceed the performance I was told to anticipate!
In speaking with another representative at CM, I was told that the original person gave me wrong information and that I shouldn't expect the same (or certainly better) from the DVR+.
Complete contradiction!
They tell you one thing to sell you on the unit and another once you own it!
.....Way to go, CM!
 

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I didn't plan on it today, but I did some back-and-forth with the Samsung tuner and the DVR+. I used a spreadsheet to log my notes. The TV reveals signal as SNR, and of course the DVR+ has signal strength and signal quality. So, no objective way to compare via those different numbers...

Each set-up uses RG6 from the same spool that I cut and terminated with the same fittings. As stated before, the DVR+'s run is about 18 feet from the box to the mast-mounted preamp. The coax run for the direct to TV connection is about 24'. Both paths take the same route through the attic and upward...

The TV's tuner memorized, including subs, 54 channels. The DVR+ 52. In prior comparisons, the delta was greater, so this isn't that bad.

Both did not get channel 2.1, FOX out here. I had it before direct to the TV, but both are not getting that one. Direct to the TV I did get CBS (5.1) with an SNR of around 20, so definitely watchable. I watched for several minutes, with no issues. Through the DVR+, like now, black screen, when I get a picture, it freezes, then gone. A rather noteworthy difference... Damn near a deal-breaker for me, but I'm not giving-up just yet...

A few questions:

Is there a way to have the DVR+ reveal signal strength & quality info, like when hitting the INFO button? I'd like to have the option to see such info more easily, as opposed to going to the menu, scrolling to setting, then down to Technical Info... And from there, it only works with one channel. On the TV, once in that mode (seeing signal info), I can then go through the channels, seeing signal info for the next channel up or down. With the DVR+, it seems that one must exit, go to the next channel, then the whole menu process again... If there's a better way, do share.

Has anyone opened the DVR+ and shared images within? Really curious what might be involved to replace the tuner/s...

A minor quibble... It would be nice when navigating through the DVR+ menus, if one could scroll up to get quickly to the bottom, and vice versa, scroll down to reach the top of a list. The TV does that, and imagine that CM will get this in a future update...

Also, how does one improve signal quality, as opposed to signal strength? One channel has like 100% strength, yet damn near 0 quality. Curious what is happening there...

Thanks much.

Edit / Add: A few other channels that the DVR+ gets have been breaking-up tonight, that were not the past a couple weeks direct to the TV. One was a PBS channel the our little ones like, so quite important... The realization is setting-in that this is not going to fly for us. Such a great device should merit no skimping on the tuner. Anyone care to guess when the next version will be released? Maybe in time for the holidays, I hope...
 

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As stated before, the DVR+'s run is about 18 feet from the box to the mast-mounted preamp. The coax run for the direct to TV connection is about 24'. Both paths take the same route through the attic and upward...
I don't understand what you have, there. Assuming the DVR+ is hooked to the TV: I would assume they're both hooked to the same rooftop (?) antenna. So I would expect to see a single coax run from antenna to a splitter, then from the splitter to each device. The mast-mounted preamp I would presume to be mounted up on the mast.

The TV's tuner memorized, including subs, 54 channels. The DVR+ 52. In prior comparisons, the delta was greater, so this isn't that bad.
So a difference of two, and, it sounds like, two insignificant channels?

Both did not get channel 2.1, FOX out here.
Coincidentally: Fox on 2.1 is the channel with which we're having problems.

Damn near a deal-breaker for me, ...
Your Fox 2.1 must be a heckuva lot better than ours, is all I can say ;)

Edit / Add: A few other channels that the DVR+ gets have been breaking-up tonight, that were not the past a couple weeks direct to the TV. One was a PBS channel the our little ones like, so quite important...
You wouldn't happen to be in S.E. Michigan, in the fringes of the Metro-Detroit area, would you? The things you're reporting sound exactly like what you'd report if you were.

Wind. Wind and things (like trees full of leaves), coupled with sub-optimal signals. We even have channels break up when planes fly overhead on certain paths.

All of that has been greatly reduced with the Winegard FlatWave Amped antenna I bought the other day. Much, much better than the rooftop antenna, under all weather conditions.

Btw: I've got top-of-the-line low-noise mast-mounted preamp around, somewhere. Tried it back when things first went digital, to see if it would improve things for us. Made 'em worse. Much worse. Many channels became completely unusable. Too much signal.

Jim
 

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I'll chime in regarding the tuners on the DVR+. I have it and the Tivo Roamio. I have compared the tuners on both. The Roamio tuners are a bit better than the Roamio's especially for someone in a challenging reception area. That doesn't make the DVR+ a bad product. Just know what you are getting and try it out to see if it will work for you. FWIW, in a lot of ways I actually prefer the interface of the DVR+ to the Roamio.
 

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I doubt this will help, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Have you tried looking through ALL of the channels that the DVR+ picked up on its scan? I say this because here in Chicago, CBS transmits on channel 2.1. However, the DVR+ picked up another channel with CBS, 100.1, which actually has a slightly better picture. The weird thing is that both are the Chicago station, WBBM. Take a look at the list of channels in the DVR+, to see if there's another channel for your FOX and CBS. Also, have you tried re-scanning?
When these units run into two signals with the same virtual channel (2.1), they throw the second one up to 100.1. I'm guessing you are picking up a WBBM translator (maybe the one at real channel 26?) as either your 2.1 or your 100.1. I have run into the same thing with my old DTVPal converter box, except it started duplicates at 70.1. Someone here can better advise you on how to block the rough looking 2.1 and have the 100.1 show up in its place.
 

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I don't understand what you have, there. Assuming the DVR+ is hooked to the TV: I would assume they're both hooked to the same rooftop (?) antenna. So I would expect to see a single coax run from antenna to a splitter, then from the splitter to each device. The mast-mounted preamp I would presume to be mounted up on the mast.


So a difference of two, and, it sounds like, two insignificant channels?


Coincidentally: Fox on 2.1 is the channel with which we're having problems.


Your Fox 2.1 must be a heckuva lot better than ours, is all I can say ;)


You wouldn't happen to be in S.E. Michigan, in the fringes of the Metro-Detroit area, would you? The things you're reporting sound exactly like what you'd report if you were.

Wind. Wind and things (like trees full of leaves), coupled with sub-optimal signals. We even have channels break up when planes fly overhead on certain paths.

All of that has been greatly reduced with the Winegard FlatWave Amped antenna I bought the other day. Much, much better than the rooftop antenna, under all weather conditions.

Btw: I've got top-of-the-line low-noise mast-mounted preamp around, somewhere. Tried it back when things first went digital, to see if it would improve things for us. Made 'em worse. Much worse. Many channels became completely unusable. Too much signal.

Jim
Jim, as I later followed-up in that post, a couple other channels, while secured by the DVR+, were breaking-up, and not so direct to the TV moments later, nor the previous couple of weeks prior to the DVR+. One such channel is a PBS favorite of our 3 and 5 year old. They can watch it w/o interruption with the DVR+ not being used. Then the oldest asks if I can record the next episode. Drat. Losing a couple channels, one in particular and others not being enjoyable to watch had me call CM moments ago to start the return process...

I'm no FOX fan, actually only watch if there's a ballgame on the network, which then becomes huge...

Yup, exact same antenna set-up during testing. Single mast, both antennas as explained before, with those two inputs running into the RCA preamp up there, then the output down through the attic... I have two RG6 cables running that route - one for direct to TV testing, and a shorter one, going to the DVR+ box, so I can compare the two by swapping the conection at the preamp on the mast, and then making the proper connection in the house (TV or DVR+). A couple hours of testing found that the TV's tuner always memorized more channels (on average about 6 more) and in actuality got about 4 more that were watchable, as compared to the DVR+.

Unlike the last rep, I think Jordan, the one day was more defensive, saying that all such comments he heard was that the DVR+'s tuner is for the most part helping folks get more channels. The previous rep, without me asking, stated that he's heard from other customers stating the same as me... The CM rep today said that TV's tune, it's their job, and only job and that our DVR box is doing much more. I didn't comment on that all that much as I could tell it wouldn't make any difference...

It's all about the reception. When one knows that they can't secure an important channel or two, or three, that is possible otherwise (TV's tuner), everything cool about the DVR+ means less and less.

While I wait many months, a year or longer for CM's next offering, hopefully with a different / better tuner/s, and more current HDMI and USB interfaces, which would be nice, what other DVR solutions are known to have very good tuners? I appreciate the help.
 
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