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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Antenna talk seems to be done to death here, but I have to ask...


Last weekend I installed a channelmaster stealthtenna to a titan 7777 signal amp. The results, pretty great. I live in Mt View CA, which has San Jose and San Francisco in a straight line with me in the middle, how perfect for a non-multidirectional antenna. My results... every channel has a strength of >70 and most 88-92! Wow!


Here's my qestion, and it's kinda just asking. I've got great results, but the 3010 has a -1.6 gain on the UHF channels and also works with VHF and FM (I have a ? below about FM if you can help). The 4228 has +12 gain on UHF only.


Should I go get a 4228 and give it a shot? I live in a townhouse and I'm thinking the 4228 might be less of a eyesore.


Anyone have an opinion to share? =)


Also, the signal coming into the house is diplexed, is there any way I can use the FM signal from the 3010 to my reciever? Can I just hook up the post-split UHF/VHF like to my sony receiver? (I don't want to destroy anything)
 

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I wouldn't. The stealth is giving you good signal strength on digital channels with pretty good margin. Moving to the UHF only antenna would take away VHF and FM reception.


Does the Stealth allow you to get channel 12 in San Jose?? That is where NBC is moving next year I believe. If you get good strength on that, don't change a thing.


You have plenty of high powered FM stations in Mountain View, so more gain there wouldn't do much for you, unless you're trying to pull in some exotic low powered college station on the non-commercial end of the band.


You can probably get away with a 2 set coupler, since you have an amplifier at the antenna. This will reduce signal strength by 3 dB, but because you have an amplifier at the antenna, this doesn't map directly to a 3 dB higher signal to noise ratio, the SNR is determined at the amplifier input circuit, and attenuation beyond the amplifier won't have much affect, unless you eat up most of the amplifier gain with it (probably 20 dB or so).


So, if you're getting channel 12 with a consistent signal strength above 60, I wouldn't change a thing.


I lived in a townhouse in Mountain View, and had a Ham Beam on the upstairs back porch, but probably didn't make any friends!


Bob Smith
 

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Hi Jeff,


I'm just down the road from you in Sunnyvale, and am looking to put up an HD OTA antenna this weekend. Your results with the stealthtenna sound excellent, and it looks to be exactly what I'm looking for.


If I may ask, where did you buy your antenna and amplifier? (I may just be being dense, but I haven't seen this antenna listed anywhere)


You're also running this through a diplexer along with DirectTV, correct?


Thanks.

DB.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Bob, I'll check tonight on channel 12, I didn't even know there was a 12, is something being broadcast now?


otaku,

I got the stealth from Fry's in PA. The Titan7777 I ordered online The Stark guys were on vacation, so I ordered from WarrenElectronics http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/preamps.htm


The diplexer is built into my multiswitch, it's an AspenEagle (or EagleAspen) 5x4 one OTA input, four LNB inputs with 4 outputs, and needs power.


I would of gone with a 4x4 mulitswitch and diplexed those outputs, but I had three lines I wanted to run to two different rooms. That's a lot of extra mountings and cable. This seems to work well for me. =)


I was a bit surprised by the orientation of the stealth, it's acutally perpindicular to the line between the two towers. ie the wings are in line with the towers and the nose in pointed somewhere around 90 degrees.


TOWER --v-- TOWER


I don't know if this is the "correct" orientation, but it works!


To aim it I found a spot with a good signal for the problem stations 45, and one of the 50's. Once I found something that gave me a 60 for 45 adn 70 for the problem 50 channel I put it up. I then rotated it until I found my best signal strength values, handy having the DTC-100 and small tv outside with you. =)

Several different places in the rotation worked. The final results were great every channel >70 with most at 88-92.
 

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Hi Jeff,


Cool. I'll swing by Fry's tonight and see if I can't scrounge one up.


I'm already using di-plexers in my house, I just hadn't heard of anyong using them for HD OTA yet. I'll be swapping my current multiplexer for a 5x8 spaun, as soon as I get an electrician out to put an outlet in the attic.


And more importantly, this will help me keep the dual DirecTV feeds for the Tivo intact.


DB.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
otaku, there is an internal amp for the stealth, The antenna specs say it has a -1.6db gain without any amp. That didn't sound good, but I don't really understand if that's bad. You might want to look at the stealth amp and the other amps they have there. I found PA has a better selection than the sunnyvale store.


Check out the channel master page, they have great information on all the antennas, the trick is finding the information you want. =)


The stealt is a big bird, about 3-4 across, that's why I was thinking f the 4228. The good thing about fry's is if you are unhappy, wait in line for 2 hours and you can return it. =)
 

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Jeff, I am surprised at the orientation of your antenna, must be picking up a strange reflection from somewhere, it should be pointed toward the tower of interest ("V" pointed opposite the antenna).


Channel 12 is down in San Jose, and is broadcasting full time as far as I can tell, I think it is KNTV, but can't remember. I won't be interested in them until KRON gives up NBC (still hard for me to believe NBC is moving out of San Francisco).


Bob Smith
 

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I've been using the StealthTenna and matching amp for about a year and am very pleased. I'm in Los Angeles, about 25 miles from the Mt. Wilson transmitters, with topographic and building interference problems in my neighborhood. Not only do I get better reception than the Weingard yagi it replaced, but most birds are too small to perch on its flat fins and poop all over the roof. It's also not an eyesore to the neighbors. I bought the antenna and amp at Frys.
 

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Jeff,


Picked up a 3010 at Frys this afternoon. It definitely shows potential sitting in my living room. (the signal should definitely improve when I put it up in the attic this weekend)


As for amplifiers, any particular reason you didn't go with the integrated amp for the 3010? I'm thinking about trying one out before ordering the titan 7777.


Thanks.

DB.
 

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Go with the the 4228 and the 7777 pre amp. Best combination. I am in Everett, WA about 68 miles from the broadcasting towers and I am picking up a 80 to 95 reading on my SAT-100. What a picture on my 65907 Mit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
otaku, no reason on the amp. I had heard good things about the 7777 and wanted to try it with my previous antenna. I was never intending on buying the 3010. But, after passing by it several times at fry's I thought, what the hell.


I would give that amp a shot, it would be a integrated into the antenna, how great is that?!


I checked the channels last night, and here's the results I got on my proscan for signal strengths... (looks like my previous comments were a bit high)


12 - 76

19 - 70

24 - 76

29 - 86

30 - 88

45 - 52 (the worst, but looks good)

52 - 73

56 - 81

57 - 92


After thinking about it, I always thougth 12 was some phantom channel. Thanks for pointing out that 12 was the future NBC. Thanks guys!
 

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Finally had the time this morning to crawl up into my attic and mount a ChannelMaster 3010 I picked up last week. With around 150-200 feet of RG6, 80% of which is diplexed into a DirecTV line, an amplifier is required. Unfortunately, I couldn't find anyone locally who carrried the Titan 7777 everyone is raving about, so I grabbed a CM 3038 (sits inside of the 3010) from Fry's and installed it.


Strangely enough, I get the best overall reception by aiming the antenna almost directly West, whereas it looks like Jeff aimed his South-Southwest.


Signal's not perfect yet though, a couple of channels are still a bit marginal (ABC most notably), but I do get at least minimal reception on everything.


Next step will be to try replacing the CM 3038 amplifier with a Titan, and try moving my mounting pole over a foot to allow the antenna to be turned slightly southward. (gotta love roof supports when aiming an antenna)
 

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i'm curious if anyone knows a lot about the various designs for these uhf antennas? i am shooting through trees and have real signal problems. it seems that a 4228 would work better than a yagi style since it has more surface area. all of my hd channels are colocated within 10 degrees of each other. i lost my 119 sat signal when the leaves came out but i got it back by switching to a 24" dish. i wonder if the same principal holds for uhf? more surface area means it would get more signal between and around the trees.


greg


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Why does he shake hands with that guy right after he sexed the alligator
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff D:

otaku,

I checked the channels last night, and here's the results I got on my proscan for signal strengths... (looks like my previous comments were a bit high)


12 - 76

19 - 70

24 - 76

29 - 86

30 - 88

45 - 52 (the worst, but looks good)

52 - 73

56 - 81

57 - 92


B]

I get all the above channel with Channel Master 4248 with a total of 100ft of RCA RG-9 coaxial cable diplex to a Direct TV RCA SAT receiver and Samsung T150. Samsung T150 shows 50% signal strength, perfect digital reception without any amps. I live in Fremont/Milpitas border. Great price on the cm4248 at consumer-direct.com; its a great hdtv antenna. Save your money; don't really the the fancy pre-amps, amplified antennas, and extra outlets to power the amps.
 

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Guys (for those of you in the bay area),


I'm in Los Gatos and am in the process of putting up a CM4228 and 7775 amp. I have a pretty clear line of site to sutro tower so I expect to get all the stations from there but am also concerned about KNTV (channel 12)- the future NBC affiliate. Will I be able to get channel 12 with a 4228 or is it considered VHF? There are big hills between KNTV and me, but only about 12 miles away. Anybody have any thoughts as to whether this will work or not? Trying to decide on a STB (Tosh DST-3000 is in the lead) but may wait to see if DTV has any response to the CBS announcement.


Eric
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by indygreg:
i'm curious if anyone knows a lot about the various designs for these uhf antennas? i am shooting through trees and have real signal problems.

greg

I use cm4248 and use to shoot right thru some large branches to reach the Sutro towers in SF. By moving the antenna from under the tree and raised it 8ft to the second floor roof, I picked up two notches on the signal meter of the Samsung T-150. The signal strength use to be just below half strength and now its at least half strength for all stations - now solid picture with no drop out problems on any channel. I am at least 30 miles from the Sutro tower across the bay. I am very near Milpitas.


I rotate the antenna just enough to pick up KNTV/SJ station while still being able to receive all the Sutro tower stations. I pick up KNTV on 20.2, 20.1 is WB. If I tune in 11.x which appears to be another KNTV broadcast by rotating it too much, eg. two o'clock from Sutro tower, I will lose KGO/ABC 7.x from the Sutro tower.


Now the antenna is fixed in one position and it seems to be working great. All we need is more HD format broadcasts. MNF from ABC would be nice since I can receive it this year.


Has anyone else in the Silicon Valley try receiving DTV signals without amps?
 

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Charles - who did you find that did professional antenna instalations ? I'm in Youngsville, about 20 miles north of the Beltline. My current antenna system is a CM3614 Crossfire VHF and a CM3021 UHF, an amp on the UHF (a Radio Shack one - probably needs replaced with something else) and 2 LPF380's (I'm thinking about getting a 3rd) on the 3614. I get a GREAT VHF picture, but my UHF could use some help (except 47 - I can get that on a rusty coat hanger at my house http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif ) .


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You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...

http://www.fcc.gov/csb/facts/otard.html
 

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i talked to the installer who put my current antenna in and he made an interesting comment. he said he has better luck in the attic with shooting through trees. he said that trees are really location specific and moving it 6 inches can make a big difference. in the attic he said it is much easier to move the antenna laterally to find a good spot.


i might try a 4228 in the attic and if it does not work i will go outside. he told me to get a UVSJ which sounds like a low pass to split my regular antenna off so that it is only doing vhf and allow the new one to do vhf.


greg


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Why does he shake hands with that guy right after he sexed the alligator
 

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Guys,


I've found that antennas are very, very location dependent. I originally started with the Stealth connected to my Sony 100HD and it just couldn't hold a steady signal. Continuous dropouts on all channels. Better at night, but not watchable. I replaced it with a 4228 ($20 cheaper) and it was locking in all four digital stations before we even stood the mast. It was remarkable. I have a friend who's 3 or 4 miles further away from the transmission towers and the Stealth worked great for him. My professional installer said this was fairly common. He once had two houses on either side of the street that required different antennas. Go figure?


So, there really is no "best" antenna. It's whatever works in your location. Be prepared to try several of them before getting a good "fit." This is where a professional installer really works for you. Mine came over with 8 or 9 different models in his truck. We got luck on the second try.


Charles Ledbetter

Raleigh, NC
 
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