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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

I have a huge empty painted wall, all white stucco style paint with light brown carpet. 

 

I will be using an Optoma HD25e about 14' away making a 120" screen. The wall is much larger than even that. The room is 100% light controlled via blankets over my blinds. (see avi lol) I sit 13' away. 

 

For now I have just been projecting onto the wall. For some reason I like the white on white bright look and don't mind the glowing effect bouncing on the ceiling. In fact it makes me feel more immersed in the world of the screen. Its like theres nothing in my peripheral and the whole screen is glowing. I like that. 

 



 

My question is: What is the cheapest place I can order a simple canvas that will help make everything brighter. What gain should I use?

 

Keep in mind I want brightness and richness and pop above all else when watching Youtube videos and playing PS3 and even projecting my MBP desktop. 

 

I am moving soon so I don't want to invest in a pulldown. I can't paint the walls or anything since the house is for sale. 

 

I literally just want a rolled up raw material delivered that I can just unroll and "attach" directly on that wall with maybe double sided tape/sticky pads so its a step above projecting on white stucco. 

 

Anything is better than just a stucco painted wall. I don't care about black borders, and I don't care about reflections. 

 

I care more about having the brightest most boldest picture when playing games or doing 3D. I hate the dim feeling. 

 

I almost got a HD25-LV but settled on the HD25e because I was planning to make up the difference with a screen that helps with brightness.

 

I have heard mention of Elite Screens around the boards but when I go on Amazon I can only find the pull down kind and over $200. 

 

I don't want the best, I want the cheapest, and next priority is brightness. Im not sure the deal with grey screens as far as brightness. Is it logical to assume grey screens are better for blacks and color balance? And white screens with higher gain are best for increasing boldness and brightness?

 

What is the most affordable option delivered to my door at 125' and up? Id like it to be around 100-120$ range if that even exists. 

 

Maybe later Ill opt to put some black tape to create a pretend border but I mostly want the whole wall to feel larger than life like there are no boundaries. 
 

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You probably won't get much brighter than a white wall unless that is not a "real" white but more of a builder's flat. The stucco texture is probably hurting the picture too though. If you want you could put up a piece of drywall (would leave holes in the wall though) and paint it a white like Glidden GLN9000 or Sherwin Williams ProClassic.


Your biggest improvement would be surrounding the screen area with dark sheets or something. Get some navy sheets from Walmart and tack them around to frame the screen and darken the ceiling and walls near it. This will improve your picture significantly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard  /t/1524029/cheapest-raw-material-for-a-screen-moving-soon-so-nothing-too-permanent#post_24523387


You probably won't get much brighter than a white wall unless that is not a "real" white but more of a builder's flat. The stucco texture is probably hurting the picture too though. If you want you could put up a piece of drywall (would leave holes in the wall though) and paint it a white like Glidden GLN9000 or Sherwin Williams ProClassic.


Your biggest improvement would be surrounding the screen area with dark sheets or something. Get some navy sheets from Walmart and tack them around to frame the screen and darken the ceiling and walls near it. This will improve your picture significantly.
 

Um what do you mean by builders flat? This is what it looks like. Its pretty white I guess. I wouldn't call it creamy by any means. 

 

The texture is pretty intense and I hope it would be a difference. 

 



 

 

Can I ask why you're pushing for paint? Is paint brighter than most screens? Even an Elite Screens one like this one? Because I can't really damage/alter the wall in any way.

 

I realized I had to search for DIY when I searched screens to get what I was kind of looking for. 

 

Elite Screens DIY133H DIY Screen Indoor and Outdoor Projector Screen (133 inch Diagonal 16:9 Ratio 64.9"Hx115.4"W)http://amzn.com/B007X90XG2

 

Are you saying paint would be brighter than this DynaWhite 1.1 gain screen material? ^

 

Thanks for the suggestion to try the sheets. Ill try it tentatively and see if and how much of a difference it really makes on the HD25e. 

 

So a grey screen isn't better or brighter correct?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Loll  /t/1524029/cheapest-raw-material-for-a-screen-moving-soon-so-nothing-too-permanent#post_24525445


Um what do you mean by builders flat? This is what it looks like. Its pretty white I guess. I wouldn't call it creamy by any means. 


The texture is pretty intense and I hope it would be a difference. 



Can I ask why you're pushing for paint? Is paint brighter than most screens? Even an Elite Screens one like this one? Because I can't really damage/alter the wall in any way.


 


So a grey screen isn't better or brighter correct?

Just because a Mfg uses a name like "Dyna-White" and / or puts up a gain figure of 1.1 doesn't mean it's going to do much to impress.

..........and if you think immersion comes from the room lighting up, you haven't even begun to realize what it means to have the image floating in a dark void. Yes, personal preference does come into play....but another important aspect to consider is how reflected light bouncing off a wall / ceiling can affect the viewed contrast on a white screen.


No question about it, any white screen surface in your room will be a compromise.


A Gray screen with gain would serve you best, but two things need to be considered.


First, your desire to not alter the wall and have portability.........and secondly expense.


You need to consider that there is the least expensive way to do it....but that it still involves necessary expense.


Here it is.


Carl's Place Flexi-White stretch across a Poplar Wood Frame, and then sprayed with Silver Fire v2.5 { reflective base only...no colorant added }


If you do is all as suggested, the cost of such a project (including a spray Gun and some nice Velvet Trim) would be approx. $230.00, but for that amount you would achieve:
  • Portability
  • A Silver Gray Screen with approximates 1.2 Gain
  • Enhanced contrast ( Improved Blacks w/bright Whites ) over a white surface, as well as a substantial reduction reflections from adjoining surfaces
  • A Screen you will be more than glad to consider using in / at your next location with any Projector you might ever consider upgrading to.


Other choices can include Black Out Cloth (painted w/ SF) on a Frame, and Sintra (painted w/ SF) on a Frame You will NOT find any Mfg material or Screen that is / has both Gray and gain for anything under $600.00. One thing is starkly clear...a white surface would not be a viable solution, but if you insistent on having such, the either the Flexit white (1.2 gain) or the Black Out Cloth (0.9 gain) will allow you to do it all for around $105.00, Trim included.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan  /t/1524029/cheapest-raw-material-for-a-screen-moving-soon-so-nothing-too-permanent#post_24531344



Just because a Mfg uses a name like "Dyna-White" and / or puts up a gain figure of 1.1 doesn't mean it's going to do much to impress.

..........and if you think immersion comes from the room lighting up, you haven't even begun to realize what it means to have the image floating in a dark void. Yes, personal preference does come into play....but another important aspect to consider is how reflected light bouncing off a wall / ceiling can affect the viewed contrast on a white screen.


No question about it, any white screen surface in your room will be a compromise.


A Gray screen with gain would serve you best, but two things need to be considered.


First, your desire to not alter the wall and have portability.........and secondly expense.


You need to consider that there is the least expensive way to do it....but that it still involves necessary expense.


Here it is.


Carl's Place Flexi-White stretch across a Poplar Wood Frame, and then sprayed with Silver Fire v2.5 { reflective base only...no colorant added }


If you do is all as suggested, the cost of such a project (including a spray Gun and some nice Velvet Trim) would be approx. $230.00, but for that amount you would achieve:
  • Portability
  • A Silver Gray Screen with approximates 1.2 Gain
  • Enhanced contrast ( Improved Blacks w/bright Whites ) over a white surface, as well as a substantial reduction reflections from adjoining surfaces
  • A Screen you will be more than glad to consider using in / at your next location with any Projector you might ever consider upgrading to.


Other choices can include Black Out Cloth (painted w/ SF) on a Frame, and Sintra (painted w/ SF) on a Frame You will NOT find any Mfg material or Screen that is / has both Gray and gain for anything under $600.00. One thing is starkly clear...a white surface would not be a viable solution, but if you insistent on having such, the either the Flexit white (1.2 gain) or the Black Out Cloth (0.9 gain) will allow you to do it all for around $105.00, Trim included.
 

 

I see, so the Dyna-White isn't really as "dynamite" as the name implies? Got it. 

 

At first I thought I didn't care to make much effort (especially spend money) to stop the light reflecting off the white walls but now you've convinced me to go for that too because I do care about improved contrast moreso than "not caring about the glow." You sold when you said: "image floating in a dark void." That premise caught my attention and I want to pursue that effect now. 

 

​So you're advising me to do pretty much what I was gonna do which is buy a material, but to also paint it with Silver Fire 2.5. I can definitely do that. 

 

Ok so first of all, this Carl guy, who is he? He has some good value products. 

 

This is what I was about to buy already: Carl's FlexiWhite, 16:9, 71x126, Projector Screen Material, White, Gain 1.1  http://amzn.com/B00ELN4BL6  - $69.95.

 

 

Now I also noticed Carlos had a couple grey and even silver screens. So I have a few questions:

 

1) Is it better to get FlexiWhite and paint it SF2.5 or is it better to just get FlexiGray and paint that? They are the same price. (  http://amzn.com/B00DYZN8CA  ) but it doesn't say how much gain it has claimed on the FlexiGray (Not that it matters after I paint it, but grey is in fact more dull?)

 

2) What about the slightly more expensive Carl's SilverScreen for $120 which is $50 more?  http://amzn.com/B00DZSBGG6  -I assume it doesn't compare to Silver Fire 2.5 but is it closer? What if that does a good enough job minus the hassle of painting? Or is it like night and day difference between the paint? I read your post elsewhere saying SilverScreen is no where near the quality of SF2.5 right?

 

3) I noticed under the SilverScreen ^ item description it said "Passive 3D (Use FlexiWhite for Active 3D)" FULL STOP! Wait a minute I have active 3D DLP-Link glasses on the Optoma! 3D IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE TO ME ABOVE ALL CONTRAST ISSUES. Are you sure I should still go gray having added this caveat? You mentioned a silver grey screen with gain would serve me best at 1.2 gain, but does that still stand after the added info that I plan to use 3D very often and have to deal with dulling glasses?

 

4) You mentioned 1.2 gain "Flexit White" as an alternative. I searched for it and couldn't figure out what brand you are referring to for around $100. Carl has nothing that is rated higher than 1.1 gain. A 1.2 gain white screen for only $100 sounds nice for 3D and a huge step up from my stucco wall.

 

5) What about this Carl's ProWhite, 16:9, 71x126, Projector Screen Material, White, Gain 1.1  http://amzn.com/B00AJQB0LI  its only 15$ more but has the same gain except its Warm Matte vs White Matte. Should I just stick with FlexiWhite still since its better for install?

 

6) When you say portability is that because I can just break down/detach the frame and roll up the canvas again? Is that what you meant? 

 

As for the paint I found your thread on it so I can figure the rest out from there. Not sure what reflective base only is? How much should it cost? And am i looking at the SilverFire 2.5 (3.0 bracket?)

 

Are you sure silver is the way to go for me? The majority of my use is 3D Blu Rays, followed by 480p/720p/1080p Youtube videos of varying quality and also 3D PS3 games, and also outputting as a secondary monitor for my laptop extended desktop. I look for bold color and brightness first and cinephile type home theater/accurate experiences last. Im the opposite of a purist. I just want the bright DLP look. I rarely watch movies just to watch a movie and am not really looking for a traditional experience. 

 

I assume Silver Fire 2.5 gives that pop effect which is why you recommended it, and not because you think thats what I should like right?

 

I appreciate all your suggestions thank you. Very helpful for giving me context because its hard figuring out what to even search for and why. 
 

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You have a couple of cheap options. Just sheet rock that wall with 3 pieces of sheet rock, mask, putty and paint a flat white. Should be less than a $100. Or you can buy the material off of ebay. Just bought a new screen for mine for $50. Just go to ebay and type in projector screen material. They also have black felt tape in different lengths and widths that you can use as a cheap border.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Loll  /t/1524029/cheapest-raw-material-for-a-screen-moving-soon-so-nothing-too-permanent#post_24532287



I see, so the Dyna-White isn't really as "dynamite" as the name implies? Got it. 


At first I thought I didn't care to make much effort (especially spend money) to stop the light reflecting off the white walls but now you've convinced me to go for that too because I do care about improved contrast more so than "not caring about the glow." You sold when you said: "image floating in a dark void." That premise caught my attention and I want to pursue that effect now.

Hi Nick,


...Yes, the "suspended" screen effect can be dramatic, but it's not really all that difficult to achieve, nor does it require the use of "Black" surfaces///simply wise choices. 
Quote:
​So you're advising me to do pretty much what I was gonna do which is buy a material, but to also paint it with Silver Fire 2.5. I can definitely do that. 


Ok so first of all, this Carl guy, who is he? He has some good value products. 

He is the owner of Carfolet (Carl's Place) Like everyplace else one shops, some items do indeed have value, others not so much...and some very little. Knowing what to consider and what to avoid is always the key. As a person, Carl is pretty conscientious, I have met him and can speak for his character in business. But he runs a business...and all that applies to that must be considered. Making decisions based on reviews obtained facts is always better than via promotional, sales oriented rhetoric.



[/quote]This is what I was about to buy already: Carl's FlexiWhite, 16:9, 71x126, Projector Screen Material, White, Gain 1.1  http://amzn.com/B00ELN4BL6  - $69.95.[/quote]


I have used that as a "Canvass" to paint lightweight Framed screens several times, painting my first examples right up inside Carl's warehouse. I found it to be smooth, very white, and almost devoid of surface texture. It;s stretch-ability makes attaching it to a Framework much easier (ie: less strong arming ) than BOC, and it does not exhibit the tendency to develop "Fuzzies" when spraying onto it's surface. But as mentioned before, get is shipped in a "Roll" not folded,and have it cut to 3" larger on all sides than the perimeter of the Frame. They have large cut-tables at Carl's and the cut it precisely squared. The precision and the minimized shipping size is worth the effort of calling in an order and working directly with them.
Quote:
Now I also noticed Carlos had a couple grey and even silver screens. So I have a few questions:


1) Is it better to get FlexiWhite and paint it SF2.5 or is it better to just get FlexiGray and paint that? They are the same price. (  http://amzn.com/B00DYZN8CA  ) but it doesn't say how much gain it has claimed on the FlexiGray (Not that it matters after I paint it, but grey is in fact more dull?)

Yes it is, and any Silver Fire screen benefits from a bright white underlying surface
Quote:
2) What about the slightly more expensive Carl's SilverScreen for $120 which is $50 more?  http://amzn.com/B00DZSBGG6  -I assume it doesn't compare to Silver Fire 2.5 but is it closer? What if that does a good enough job minus the hassle of painting? Or is it like night and day difference between the paint? I read your post elsewhere saying SilverScreen is no where near the quality of SF2.5 right?


3) I noticed under the SilverScreen ^ item description it said "Passive 3D (Use FlexiWhite for Active 3D)" FULL STOP! Wait a minute I have active 3D DLP-Link glasses on the Optoma! 3D IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE TO ME ABOVE ALL CONTRAST ISSUES. Are you sure I should still go gray having added this caveat? You mentioned a silver grey screen with gain would serve me best at 1.2 gain, but does that still stand after the added info that I plan to use 3D very often and have to deal with dulling glasses?

You read the description. "For Passive 3D". That is because it has actual metallic particles embedded within to preserve the polarity needed for passive 3D. But that also means observable graininess and a degree of retro reflectiveness. Also, there is very little light lost due to surface attenuation in Passive 3D,and Passive 3D PJs run brighter than Active models, either because they have dual Light Engins or one uses two separate PJs.


Any sub 1.0 Gain surface It is recommended for use with Active 3D. Active 3D virtually always involved considerable light attenuation when the PJ is in A-3D mode and when the Glasses are worn, so the suggested Flexi-White, being a brighter surface, gets the nod over most everything else in Carl's repertoire that is to be used "non-painted}.
Quote:
4) You mentioned 1.2 gain "Flexit White" as an alternative. I searched for it and couldn't figure out what brand you are referring to for around $100. Carl has nothing that is rated higher than 1.1 gain. A 1.2 gain white screen for only $100 sounds nice for 3D and a huge step up from my stucco wall.
Typo.
Also, different reviews have found that FW's gain is between 1.1 - 1.2 so I give FW the benefit of the difference. It get;s the "Non Treated White" nod because of all the advantages previously mentioned, however the perception of, or any actual increasing of contrast "as it comes off the screen" isn't among them
Quote:
5) What about this Carl's ProWhite, 16:9, 71x126, Projector Screen Material, White, Gain 1.1  http://amzn.com/B00AJQB0LI  its only 15$ more but has the same gain except its Warm Matte vs White Matte. Should I just stick with FlexiWhite still since its better for install?

Yes. No doubts about that point at all.
Quote:
6) When you say portability is that because I can just break down/detach the frame and roll up the canvas again? Is that what you meant?

Taking you at your "Moving Soon" word, it was intended to mean the application's "Temporary Mounting" and "Lightweight" qualities. Taking it all apart and re-assembling it again is possible, but also it is problematical as to if such can be done without lost of effort and no potential damage or loss of screen dimensions. 
Quote:
As for the paint I found your thread on it so I can figure the rest out from there. Not sure what reflective base only is? How much should it cost? And am i looking at the SilverFire 2.5 (3.0 bracket?)

When one makes up a SF mix, it consists of three separate elements A Viscosity Mix...a Reflective Mix, and a selected amount of SF Colorant Mix (..in Oz. increments...) that determines the degree of darkness of Gray shading of the Mix. I suggested omiting the Colorant so you would have the highest gain possible yet still reap the benefit of the Silver content. Also it should be noted that with the recent change to Martha Stewart Polished Silver as the Silver additive, the Reflective Base starts out darker than before.
Quote:
Are you sure silver is the way to go for me? The majority of my use is 3D Blu Rays, followed by 480p/720p/1080p Youtube videos of varying quality and also 3D PS3 games, and also outputting as a secondary monitor for my laptop extended desktop. I look for bold color and brightness first and cinephile type home theater/accurate experiences last. Im the opposite of a purist. I just want the bright DLP look. I rarely watch movies just to watch a movie and am not really looking for a traditional experience. 


I assume Silver Fire 2.5 gives that pop effect which is why you recommended it, and not because you think thats what I should like right?

Actually both. And not because "I think....but because I know SF is exactly what will deliver you both the gain you need and contrast (PoP) you desire.


Quote:
I appreciate all your suggestions thank you. Very helpful for giving me context because its hard figuring out what to even search for and why. 

Your welcome. I appreciate how difficult it is wade through and weed out all the conflicting info, and then make a decision. Such is why at times I become a bit direct in my suggestions. Many wannabee DIY'ers have tossed in the towel because of confusing and sometimes rancorous differences in this Genre, and I strongly feel that experience over years of examples and known end results carries far more emphasis and weight over the occasional opinion or most all Mfg. sales promotional speak.


Also, being willing (...as much as possible...) to actually guide and help someone through a project can...and usually does make all the difference over someone's simply suggesting a course of action then stepping away. In truth, it's the members who trouble themselves to actually post "Build Threads" and document in detail both their progress and then the end results that really help make this Forum the valuable resource it is.


Go get'ter Dun.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Loll  /t/1524029/cheapest-raw-material-for-a-screen-moving-soon-so-nothing-too-permanent#post_24525445


Um what do you mean by builders flat? This is what it looks like. Its pretty white I guess. I wouldn't call it creamy by any means. 

Builder's flat is that generic off-white that most new homes are painted with. It's not really a pure, bright white. That texture is brutal!
Quote:
Can I ask why you're pushing for paint? Is paint brighter than most screens? Even an Elite Screens one like this one? Because I can't really damage/alter the wall in any way.

Paint probably wouldn't be significantly or possibly any brighter than that screen, but it would be a lot cheaper. If you can hang a piece of drywall somehow, that would be $10 in drywall and $10 in paint for a 4x8 screen size (you can also get drywall in 5x10 for a couple dollars more but good luck getting it in there).


If there's no way for you to do anything other than put up a screen, Elite is a good budget option from everything I've seen.
Quote:
So a grey screen isn't better or brighter correct?

Grey will be better if you have significant ambient light, but will definitely not be brighter, it will be dimmer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan  /t/1524029/cheapest-raw-material-for-a-screen-moving-soon-so-nothing-too-permanent#post_24535620



Hi Nick,


...Yes, the "suspended" screen effect can be dramatic, but it's not really all that difficult to achieve, nor does it require the use of "Black" surfaces///simply wise choices. 

He is the owner of Carfolet (Carl's Place) Like everyplace else one shops, some items do indeed have value, others not so much...and some very little. Knowing what to consider and what to avoid is always the key. As a person, Carl is pretty conscientious, I have met him and can speak for his character in business. But he runs a business...and all that applies to that must be considered. Making decisions based on reviews obtained facts is always better than via promotional, sales oriented rhetoric.
This is what I was about to buy already: Carl's FlexiWhite, 16:9, 71x126, Projector Screen Material, White, Gain 1.1  http://amzn.com/B00ELN4BL6  - $69.95.[/quote]


I have used that as a "Canvass" to paint lightweight Framed screens several times, painting my first examples right up inside Carl's warehouse. I found it to be smooth, very white, and almost devoid of surface texture. It;s stretch-ability makes attaching it to a Framework much easier (ie: less strong arming ) than BOC, and it does not exhibit the tendency to develop "Fuzzies" when spraying onto it's surface. But as mentioned before, get is shipped in a "Roll" not folded,and have it cut to 3" larger on all sides than the perimeter of the Frame. They have large cut-tables at Carl's and the cut it precisely squared. The precision and the minimized shipping size is worth the effort of calling in an order and working directly with them.

Yes it is, and any Silver Fire screen benefits from a bright white underlying surface

You read the description. "For Passive 3D". That is because it has actual metallic particles embedded within to preserve the polarity needed for passive 3D. But that also means observable graininess and a degree of retro reflectiveness. Also, there is very little light lost due to surface attenuation in Passive 3D,and Passive 3D PJs run brighter than Active models, either because they have dual Light Engins or one uses two separate PJs.


Any sub 1.0 Gain surface It is recommended for use with Active 3D. Active 3D virtually always involved considerable light attenuation when the PJ is in A-3D mode and when the Glasses are worn, so the suggested Flexi-White, being a brighter surface, gets the nod over most everything else in Carl's repertoire that is to be used "non-painted}.
Typo.
Also, different reviews have found that FW's gain is between 1.1 - 1.2 so I give FW the benefit of the difference. It get;s the "Non Treated White" nod because of all the advantages previously mentioned, however the perception of, or any actual increasing of contrast "as it comes off the screen" isn't among them

Yes. No doubts about that point at all.

Taking you at your "Moving Soon" word, it was intended to mean the application's "Temporary Mounting" and "Lightweight" qualities. Taking it all apart and re-assembling it again is possible, but also it is problematical as to if such can be done without lost of effort and no potential damage or loss of screen dimensions. 

When one makes up a SF mix, it consists of three separate elements A Viscosity Mix...a Reflective Mix, and a selected amount of SF Colorant Mix (..in Oz. increments...) that determines the degree of darkness of Gray shading of the Mix. I suggested omiting the Colorant so you would have the highest gain possible yet still reap the benefit of the Silver content. Also it should be noted that with the recent change to Martha Stewart Polished Silver as the Silver additive, the Reflective Base starts out darker than before.

Actually both. And not because "I think....but because I know SF is exactly what will deliver you both the gain you need and contrast (PoP) you desire.

Your welcome. I appreciate how difficult it is wade through and weed out all the conflicting info, and then make a decision. Such is why at times I become a bit direct in my suggestions. Many wannabee DIY'ers have tossed in the towel because of confusing and sometimes rancorous differences in this Genre, and I strongly feel that experience over years of examples and known end results carries far more emphasis and weight over the occasional opinion or most all Mfg. sales promotional speak.


Also, being willing (...as much as possible...) to actually guide and help someone through a project can...and usually does make all the difference over someone's simply suggesting a course of action then stepping away. In truth, it's the members who trouble themselves to actually post "Build Threads" and document in detail both their progress and then the end results that really help make this Forum the valuable resource it is.


Go get'ter Dun.

[/QUOTE]

 

Thank you so much for the information. You are a pillar of this community. 
 
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