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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all.

Last week I posted about a music-only choice between subs. I've really narrowed it down to these three; and actually, I chose a Rythmik FV12, but cannot wait around for a used one (God only known when that would be), so here we are. I'd really like to pull the trigger soon, before prices go back up or become out of stock (and just because I really want to purchase a sub to complete my system, sooner rather than later).


Just to refresh, the room is about 1900 cubic feet that opens about 2/3 of the way down to the kitchen/dining, which is about 1700 cubic feet. I sit on the short wall side (that's 12ft. across, with me in the middle; the length is about 20ft.).


Budget: $650 max.


Again, I want to hear opinions about the most musical of the three. I assume each will perform solidly down to 30Hz in this space. I'd also like to hear opinions as to which design is more forgiving on placement as well (though this isn't that important...just something I'm considering, too). I chose sealed overall because I think they're relatively forgiving comparatively to ported, but the dual drivers of the Epik has me thinking.


Oh, and I will be using a DSPeaker Anti-Mode 8033c as well for whichever one I intend to purchase. Thanks all in advance!
 

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I wouldn't get the emotiva. I have 2 emotiva Ultra 12's that I got on clearance for $329 each. I'm going to use them as a proxy for the X-ref12 knowing the X-ref12 is a step up from what I have, but the FR is similar. They sound decent, but I know I'm missing some lower Hz bass. I'm never blown away with them. They sound good and they're good for the price I paid. If I had it to do over again, I think I would have gotten one of the higher end outlaws on sale.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
"I'm waiting for FedEx to drop off my Epik Legend right now.

I'll let you know once it's hooked up but you can see the direction I took.".



"I wouldn't get the emotiva. I have 2 emotiva Ultra 12's that I got on clearance for $329 each. I'm going to use them as a proxy for the X-ref12 knowing the X-ref12 is a step up from what I have, but the FR is similar. They sound decent, but I know I'm missing some lower Hz bass. I'm never blown away with them. They sound good and they're good for the price I paid. If I had it to do over again, I think I would have gotten one of the higher end outlaws on sale."




Thanks guys for answering. I was a little hesitant on the Emotiva anyway, but I liked the idea of having a PEQ option (whether or not it would be utilized in my situation with the 8033c or not is a different matter). Thanks for pretty much helping me eliminate another sub.


So I'm left with the Epik or SVS. joshua.jones, please do let me know how you like it. Also, are you utilizing it for a mostly/all music system as well? I'd be very curious.

Again, thanks!
 

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Supposedly, the dual driver design of the Epik Legend makes it a little more forgiving on placement. I don't know enough acoustical science to tell you whether or not or why that's true. Perhaps someone else will jump in and explain.


Also, due to the dual driver design, the Legend should give you more SPL if that's at all a consideration.
 

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SVS would be my choice, proven performance, quality parts and great customer service.


Edit: two of those Dayton subs would also be a good choice if you need more slam for kick drums, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1  /t/1416701/choice-between-epik-legend-emotiva-x-ref-12-or-svs-sb12-nsd-music-only#post_22156005


For a music system you really should consider a pair of subs. The ease of integration with the mains, and the smoother response would be very beneficial. You should seriously consider a pair of these
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-770

Hi Jay1.

Ideally, yes, that's what I'd intend to do at some point, but for now I can only get one. I chose sealed, smaller footprint subs as options for a few reasons:


• Obviously, small footprint, so they can integrate easier within my space

• Sealed design is typically desired for 'tightness and musicality'

• These three seem pretty well-known for their performance and great price


The integration of the sub at this point would most-likely reside along the wall; possibly inside the right or left speaker. I'll have to do some work on that end. The Daytons seem like good alternatives, but I'm a little constrained by space (what's new, right?), and 15" subs aren't in the cards with this room. Perhaps 12"-ers? I'd go that route, but have no clue as to Dayton's performance in direct comparison with the SVS, Epik or Emotiva reputation for musical performance, which is really important to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #9

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145  /t/1416701/choice-between-epik-legend-emotiva-x-ref-12-or-svs-sb12-nsd-music-only#post_22156636


Supposedly, the dual driver design of the Epik Legend makes it a little more forgiving on placement. I don't know enough acoustical science to tell you whether or not or why that's true. Perhaps someone else will jump in and explain.

Also, due to the dual driver design, the Legend should give you more SPL if that's at all a consideration.

Hi again cel...


I thought I had read that as well someplace, though I've never seen it explained as to why it's more forgiving. If true, it would be a huge plus, for certain. High SPLs aren't that important to me, unless any of these play cleanly at high levels (past subs I've owned just couldn't achieve this).


The Legend is really high on my list; the only thing stopping me from pulling the trigger (especially at $499) is the constant threads and Internet talk about their amps/reliability issues. I know their CS is top-notch, though. However, it seems a real pain to have to order another amp and install it when it should be properly done the first time around. In the big scheme of things, probably not that big a deal, but it does weigh heavily into the decision-making process.

OTOH, there have been lots of folks who've never had any issues...so, it seems like a crapshoot with these. Wish I knew if his latest subs have resolved this issue more so than in the past.
 

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Discussion Starter #10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt34  /t/1416701/choice-between-epik-legend-emotiva-x-ref-12-or-svs-sb12-nsd-music-only#post_22156726


SVS would be my choice, proven performance, quality parts and great customer service.

Edit: two of those Dayton subs would also be a good choice if you need more slam for kick drums, etc.

Hello sir.

Thanks for your input! It's really appreciated. Yeah, SVS is not only a good-looking sub, but everything I read about it just seems to exude quality and outstanding performance (with a surprising amount of SPL for a small sealed sub).


Like I said earlier, at $650 (or $680), it seems like a no-brainer...but then I keep seeing the Epik $499 price point. I keep going back-and-forth, mainly because they both seem like excellent performers. But if the SVS is that much better, then I have ZERO problem paying the extra $150 or so.
 

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Any of the dual Epiks are at the top of the heap when it comes to value. You just can't beat their dual driver 12 sub when it comes to output capability (as far as sealed subs are concerned) for $500.It's really hard to argue with what Epik is giving you for the money.


The SVS will not keep up in terms of bang for buck, but as alluded above, the SVS offers a balanced combination of solid output, low distortion, decent extension, small size, refined looks and quality, bulletproof output (you really can't overdrive any of SVS's subs), and a customer satisfaction policy that includes upgrades.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsawyer09  /t/1416701/choice-between-epik-legend-emotiva-x-ref-12-or-svs-sb12-nsd-music-only#post_22156754


The Legend is really high on my list; the only thing stopping me from pulling the trigger (especially at $499) is the constant threads and Internet talk about their amps/reliability issues.

If you have not already, I would suggest skimming through the last six to nine months of the Epik owners thread and seeing how much of it is true. Sometimes things get hyped up a bit in the main forum. Plus, once you are this close on a decision, reading the owners thread for each sub is a good way to make a final decision.
 

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Discussion Starter #13

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145  /t/1416701/choice-between-epik-legend-emotiva-x-ref-12-or-svs-sb12-nsd-music-only#post_22156825


If you have not already, I would suggest skimming through the last six to nine months of the Epik owners thread and seeing how much of it is true. Sometimes things get hyped up a bit in the main forum. Plus, once you are this close on a decision, reading the owners thread for each sub is a good way to make a final decision.

Really sage advice. I'll do just that. It seems to come down to the Epik and SVS. Thanks again for your help!
 

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Discussion Starter #14

Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive  /t/1416701/choice-between-epik-legend-emotiva-x-ref-12-or-svs-sb12-nsd-music-only#post_22156798


Any of the dual Epiks are at the top of the heap when it comes to value. You just can't beat their dual driver 12 sub when it comes to output capability (as far as sealed subs are concerned) for $500.It's really hard to argue with what Epik is giving you for the money.

The SVS will not keep up in terms of bang for buck, but as alluded above, the SVS offers a balanced combination of solid output, low distortion, decent extension, small size, refined looks and quality, bulletproof output (you really can't overdrive any of SVS's subs), and a customer satisfaction policy that includes upgrades.

Agreed on all fronts. I suppose this is why I'm having such a hard time deciding between these two. I suppose when it's all said and done, I can't imagine I'd go wrong with either model. Thanks for your input...very valuable.

Once I make a decision, I'll post thoughts on the new sub — whichever that might be.
 

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Discussion Starter #15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsawyer09  /t/1416701/choice-between-epik-legend-emotiva-x-ref-12-or-svs-sb12-nsd-music-only#post_22157027


Really sage advice. I'll do just that. It seems to come down to the Epik and SVS. Thanks again for your help!

I did end-up perusing the Epik section, all the way back to December, and I do think I'm going to rule Epik out. It appears they (Chad) have (has) not resolved the persistent amp failure issues; and we're talking on both the Legend and Empires. If anything, it might have gotten worse (and CS seems to have suffered a bit in the last three months as well). I'd overlook this if there were a few reports here and there, but the number of owners reporting failures at some point – ranging from just as the three-year warranty expires, to having it just a few weeks/months – really is quite alarming. Even if CS was outstanding, I do not think this is very acceptable, especially given that there has been more than ample time to work with vendors or re-source to correct the situation. Seems a bit odd in many ways.


At any rate, it looks like my decision is made (thanks to everyone here) — the SVS SB12-NSD it is!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsawyer09  /t/1416701/choice-between-epik-legend-emotiva-x-ref-12-or-svs-sb12-nsd-music-only#post_22157251


I did end-up perusing the Epik section, all the way back to December, and I do think I'm going to rule Epik out. It appears they (Chad) have (has) not resolved the persistent amp failure issues; and we're talking on both the Legend and Empires. If anything, it might have gotten worse (and CS seems to have suffered a bit in the last three months as well). I'd overlook this if there were a few reports here and there, but the number of owners reporting failures at some point – ranging from just as the three-year warranty expires, to having it just a few weeks/months – really is quite alarming. Even if CS was outstanding, I do not think this is very acceptable, especially given that there has been more than ample time to work with vendors or re-source to correct the situation. Seems a bit odd in many ways.

At any rate, it looks like my decision is made (thanks to everyone here) — the SVS SB12-NSD it is!

To put a fine point on it SVS gives you a full 5 year warranty. Amp and driver covered for 5 years.
 

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Discussion Starter #17

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy  /t/1416701/choice-between-epik-legend-emotiva-x-ref-12-or-svs-sb12-nsd-music-only#post_22157301


To put a fine point on it SVS gives you a full 5 year warranty. Amp and driver covered for 5 years.

Thanks spyboy. 5 years...nice.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsawyer09  /t/1416701/choice-between-epik-legend-emotiva-x-ref-12-or-svs-sb12-nsd-music-only#post_22157448


Thanks spyboy. 5 years...nice.

They also have a one year trade up policy with full credit for the original purchase. That's nice if you decided you wanted more--or bad because it encourages upgrading
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145  /t/1416701/choice-between-epik-legend-emotiva-x-ref-12-or-svs-sb12-nsd-music-only#post_22157510


They also have a one year trade up policy with full credit for the original purchase. That's nice if you decided you wanted more--or bad because it encourages upgrading

Thanks for reminding me of the trade up policy, however, several people have mentioned that shipping costs makes this offer less attractive than at first blush.


IIRC you have to pay to ship the original unit back to SVS and the shipping charges on a top-notch upgraded unit (from SVS) ranges into the hundreds of dollars.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy  /t/1416701/choice-between-epik-legend-emotiva-x-ref-12-or-svs-sb12-nsd-music-only#post_22157795


IIRC you have to pay to ship the original unit back to SVS and the shipping charges on a top-notch upgraded unit (from SVS) ranges into the hundreds of dollars.

The SB12 that the OP is interested in would be the smallest and lightest of the SVS subs, and thus the cheapest to ship back. So it might cost $60 or $70 to ship back, but not a bad deal if one decides to upgrade after six months.
 
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