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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
New poster here......not sure if this is the right place to post this question.........but here goes


I am going to be returning a Samsung PN58A650 to BB which has a crop circle right in the center of the screen.


I was thinking of may be getting a Pio, is there a reason why the 8G's are still selling for more than the newer model ??


And if I was offered both at a similar price is there a compelling reason why I would buy the 8G over the 9G or vice versa


Here is the link to the crop circle pictures I mentioned earlier

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Third World /forum/post/14244575


I was thinking of may be getting a Pio, is there a reason why the 8G's are still selling for more than the newer model ??

The price levels are probably based on the supply/demand of/for 8G Kuros.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Third World /forum/post/0


And if I was offered both at a similar price is there a compelling reason why I would buy the 8G over the 9G or vice versa

Unless you want a CableCARD slot or are buying a non-Elite model, the 8G offers no real advantage versus the 9G series.


Pioneer has removed the CableCARD slot and I believe (1) or more component connection interfaces from the 9G series PDPs.


Pioneer has also stripped out many of the picture tweaks & settings options from the non-Elite/Signature series PDPs (i.e. PDP-50/6020FDs).
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for the reply Optivity......Here is my dielema


I bought the Samsung from Best Buy, so when I return it I would most probably buy the replacement TV from them,(I have a BB credit card with 3yrs no intrest) They seem to carry both the 8G and 9G and I will buy whichever one they are most willing to bend on price !!


So if they give me a great price on the 8G will I be missing out on some added performance, deeper blacks etc on the 9G and if the 9G is a few hundred dollars over is it worth the extra dollars ???
 

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People are finding the 8G to be desireable because it can actually be ISF calibrated, and have the ability to have edge enhancement, noise reduction, etc. turned off or on in the menus...My understanding is in the 9G these are all hard coded into the picture modes, and removed from the service menu. If you want a "set it and forget it" set, and aren't too concerned about color accuracy or grayscale calibration, etc, get the 9G. The 9G does have deeper black levels, but I find myself too angry over Pioneer purposly crippling the set to force people to buy the Elite model, that I couldn't even consider a Pioneer 9g "non-elite".
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Third World /forum/post/14244991


They seem to carry both the 8G and 9G and I will buy whichever one they are most willing to bend on price !!


So if they give me a great price on the 8G will I be missing out on some added performance, deeper blacks etc on the 9G and if the 9G is a few hundred dollars over is it worth the extra dollars ???

With price being a deciding factor only you can determine which generation PDP provides more "value."


All PDPs have their share of (+)/(-) and while Pioneer currently makes the best PDPs in their class, these TVs have their issues too.


The biggest complaint regarding the 8G Kuros is they do not produce a "bright" enough image compared to their 720p counterparts. Supposedly the image rendered by the 9G series is not as dim.


It has been "rumored" the 9G series Kuros provide deeper blacks but sacrifice some shadow detail (a.k.a. black crush) in the process. I do not know how true this is because I have not seen an 8G/9G Pioneer PDP side-by-side.


Are you considering the 50/6010 50/6020 or 110/150 111/151 series? The Elite Kuros have the "Pure" picture A/V selection, which IMO renders the most accurate image that I have seen on any PDP.


Regarding black levels & CRs, unless you compare displays side-by-side, once the PDP is set up in your home the incremental increases to black level & CR performance of the 9G series will not be missed.


I have a PRO-150FD, which IMO is a very nice display. But if in the market today I would probably choose the 9G.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Very informative. Thank you. 150 & 151 are a little out of my league. The 6010 or 6020 is where I might have to make a decision. I feel like I can't go wrong with either one, and like you said "price" would probably be the ultimate decision maker since I am so streached in terms of funds. If I could bully BB into giving me a good price I am tending to lean towards the G9, since some of my viewing is done in a brighter envirnoment. Although I would lose some of the "extra calibration avaliable in the 8G" as mentioned by AtomHeart
 

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If I was to buy another TV today, I'd probably wait for the 141 or 10G...or more likely, jump on a 60" 8G Elite now if I could find huge savings. Although I would like the weight savings of the 60" Signature model for wall mounting.


But there are some things I don't like on the current 9G...particularly the Vista style menus, the horizontal HDMI inputs, and the crippled video calibration options on the 5020/6020.


Regarding the menu design, 8Gs (even 7G) have sharp looking no-fluff efficient graphics which serve their purpose well. A few design considerations on the 9G make you wonder wtf such as the full screen menu that shrinks the picture down to a tiny subwindow or when displaying screen info large black bars appear top and bottom just for a few things like input signal res, audio type, etc. (similar to the PS3 info display during DVD/BD playback).


Granted PQ is whats important and the 9Gs are no doubt the best available on the market...so get the Elite, and forget about the price! (think long term value)
 

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One Question I had was from reading some posts concerning DNice 9G review was that the 8G was better for 480i SD then the 9G. Why would last year 8G have better using SD then this years 9G that does not add up, so I am not sure that is true, Has anyone compared SD on a 8G to a 9G?



Also is it true the 9G has some shadow detail (black Crush) problems?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by optivity /forum/post/14245230


It has been "rumored" the 9G series Kuros provide deeper blacks but sacrifice some shadow detail (a.k.a. black crush) in the process. I do not know how true this is because I have not seen an 8G/9G Pioneer PDP side-by-side.

Actually, the shadow detail is better in the 9Gs based on user impressions AND the slight hump in the gamma curve (as pointed out by D-Nice in his review)
 

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The 8G was better for 480 SD because it was 720p set. Plus it was a 50" set. My assumption to what D-Nice mentioned is this: Smaller = less difference resolution-wise; smaller = sharper at the same distance. D-Nice will be comparing the 111 to his 1150, so that'll be a better comparison. Still a resolution difference, but same size televisions.


Also, from what I've seen 9G do NOT have a black crush problem. Just because it has darker blacks, people claim that there is a loss of detail, which isn't true. I've said it before, my 151 displays MORE detail than my XBR5 did, my 60A2000 did or any other set, while maintaining the inky blacks.


Anyone who's seen a 9G compared to an 8G will most likely tell you the same thing.


Anyone who hasn't seen the 9G will say it crushes blacks. If they've seen one crushing blacks, chances are the TV had the wrong settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BQ91 /forum/post/14247663


One Question I had was from reading some posts concerning DNice 9G review was that the 8G was better for 480i SD then the 9G. Why would last year 8G have better using SD then this years 9G that does not add up, so I am not sure that is true, Has anyone compared SD on a 8G to a 9G?



Also is it true the 9G has some shadow detail (black Crush) problems?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aetherhole /forum/post/14247929


The 8G was better for 480 SD because it was 720p set.

How can a 720p PDP w/half the number of pixels render SD better than a 1080p display?
 

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I have owned both an 8G 5080 and a 9G 5020.


The 9G 5020 has fantastic PQ and the "crippled" user adjustments have not been an issue at all for me.

I respect that this may be important to some folks here, but for the average user I do not think it will be an issue.

If you are a tweaker-save up your money and get an Elite 9G.


The 5020 has deeper blacks, better contrast, better detail, is more 3D, has less noise and a smoother picture on good sources than the 5080. All incremental, but the sum of these improvements is not a subtle improvement IMO.

SD is the same-usable if you have no choice.


If you can get a 6020 for a price in the same ballpark as a 6010-get the 6020.

Read D-Nice's review.
 

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I can say that because it has less pixels to "Guess" what information goes in there. Let's see...


2073600 pixels in a 1080p display

921600 pixels in a 720p display

345600 pixels in a 480p display


To upconvert a 480i/p source to a 720p display it needs to do "guesswork" to fill in 576000 pixels


To upconvert a 480i/p source to a 1080p display it needs to do "guesswork" to fill in 1728000 pixels.


The difference of 1152000 pixels

1728000 is also 3x as many pixels compared to 576000


Now, the best processing can happen to fill in those extra pixels, but all in all, it's still guess work and that's why I am saying, for 3x as much pixel guess work, the 1080p may not look as good as a 720p display.


ON TOP of that difference, like I mentioned, the smaller size of the 720p display added to my assessment.
 

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So what you are saying is a 5080 has better SD (480) display than a 5020. But when comparing a 5010 to a 5020 the 5020 is better. Is that the jest of it?


Thanks
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by optivity /forum/post/14245230


Supposedly the image rendered by the 9G series is not as dim.

No where near dim

Quote:
It has been "rumored" the 9G series Kuros provide deeper blacks but sacrifice some shadow detail (a.k.a. black crush) in the process. I do not know how true this is because I have not seen an 8G/9G Pioneer PDP side-by-side.

False. The 9Gs show MORE shadow detail than any 8G.

Quote:
Are you considering the 50/6010 50/6020 or 110/150 111/151 series? The Elite Kuros have the "Pure" picture A/V selection, which IMO renders the most accurate image that I have seen on any PDP.

Interesting as your PDP isn't calibrated
 

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What D-Nice said.
 
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