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Shall I preorder a dual stack for you then Steve? ;) :D :p

Yup. I think that 20,000 lumens is going to be more than sufficient light output for the vast majority of home theater screen sizes. Also, the cost of stacking two of these is going to put a very serious dent in your wallet! :eek:

:wink:
A dual stack. Think I'd have to stick to Inn 'N Out Burger for that, all I can afford!:):cool::p

As for the very serious dent in the wallet, I think one of these projectors will do that as well! :) But I can just see it now "Art's Dolby Stacked Cinema"!:D
 

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Discussion Starter #42
A dual stack. Think I'd have to stick to Inn 'N Out Burger for that, all I can afford!:):cool::p

As for the very serious dent in the wallet, I think one of these projectors will do that as well! :) But I can just see it now "Art's Dolby Stacked Cinema"!:D

Steve I know you are probably joking but since it's difficult to tell at times, this is a projector that has laser modules in a rack that feed the light into the head. We are going to see a set up with about 20,000 lumens on a 16' wide screen. I requested that size screen since I felt that for such a projector it was unlikely the buyers would use anything smaller than that. In fact, I requested it be at least that large. The projector demo is not near the maximum capability for it, which is closer to 60,000 lumens.

Art
 

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Steve I know you are probably joking but since it's difficult to tell at times, this is a projector that has laser modules in a rack that feed the light into the head. We are going to see a set up with about 20,000 lumens on a 16' wide screen. I requested that size screen since I felt that for such a projector it was unlikely the buyers would use anything smaller than that. In fact, I requested it be at least that large. The projector demo is not near the maximum capability for it, which is closer to 60,000 lumens.

Art
Art, half jest, half real. After all, you have stacked Electrohome projectors and now Sony VW5000 laser projectors.

One of the first 13 Dolby Cinemas is a few miles from me and yea very nice (for a commercial movie theater), especially after awhile when they turned off/dimmed the lights (including red exit light) during the movie! Very impressive and if I go to a movie makes it impossible to go to one of the other AMC multiplex theaters with only a "normal" projector! Since the Dolby Cinema uses two projectors, heck, I figured you (Art) may at least consider it, that would be 40,000 lumens, enough to blind anyone watching! :rolleyes::cool::p:D:D:D Seriously, it will be interesting to find out your demo impressions!
 

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A dual stack. Think I'd have to stick to Inn 'N Out Burger for that, all I can afford!:):cool::p

As for the very serious dent in the wallet, I think one of these projectors will do that as well! :) But I can just see it now "Art's Dolby Stacked Cinema"!:D
Steve I know you are probably joking but since it's difficult to tell at times, this is a projector that has laser modules in a rack that feed the light into the head. We are going to see a set up with about 20,000 lumens on a 16' wide screen. I requested that size screen since I felt that for such a projector it was unlikely the buyers would use anything smaller than that. In fact, I requested it be at least that large. The projector demo is not near the maximum capability for it, which is closer to 60,000 lumens.

Art
Art, half jest, half real. After all, you have stacked Electrohome projectors and now Sony VW5000 laser projectors.

One of the first 13 Dolby Cinemas is a few miles from me and yea very nice (for a commercial movie theater), especially after awhile when they turned off/dimmed the lights (including red exit light) during the movie! Very impressive and if I go to a movie makes it impossible to go to one of the other AMC multiplex theaters with only a "normal" projector! Since the Dolby Cinema uses two projectors, heck, I figured you (Art) may at least consider it, that would be 40,000 lumens, enough to blind anyone watching! :rolleyes::cool::p:D:D:D Seriously, it will be interesting to find out your demo impressions!
Just to add to what Art says here, and to clarify... The default configuration that features within Dolby Cinemas comprises dual stacked projectors each rated at 30,000 lumens yielding a combined total of 60,000 lumens.

It is my understanding that the 'non-cinema' version comprises a modified version of one of these projectors, which would be by default rated at 30,000 lumens. However, it is worth bearing in mind that this figure probably relates to the peak luminance in the centre of the image, not the average overall image luminance.

The light source is a laser module rack filled with banks of laser diodes. You simply turn these on or off according to how much light output you want; and Christie can also simply add more modules/diodes and thereby increase the light output accordingly, where Christie offers higher light output than 30,000 lumens with singular projectors.

Either way, there is more than sufficient light output with one singular projector for home theaters usage and I can't see anyone needing or wanting to stack two together. That would be overkill ;)

And case in point with respect to what Art says about screen sizes, my current home theater/cinema build into which I am considering installing this projector has a screen size that is 19' 1" wide. Where Art is right that you really don't want to be using this with screen sizes smaller than 16' :)

:wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #45
Just to add to what Art says here, and to clarify... The default configuration that features within Dolby Cinemas comprises dual stacked projectors each rated at 30,000 lumens yielding a combined total of 60,000 lumens.

It is my understanding that the 'non-cinema' version comprises a modified version of one of these projectors, which would be by default rated at 30,000 lumens. However, it is worth bearing in mind that this figure probably relates to the peak luminance in the centre of the image, not the average overall image luminance.

The light source is a laser module rack filled with banks of laser diodes. You simply turn these on or off according to how much light output you want; and Christie can also simply add more modules/diodes and thereby increase the light output accordingly, where Christie offers higher light output than 30,000 lumens with singular projectors.

Either way, there is more than sufficient light output with one singular projector for home theaters usage and I can't see anyone needing or wanting to stack two together. That would be overkill ;)

And case in point with respect to what Art says about screen sizes, if I choose to proceed with installing this projector into my current home theater/cinema build, I would increase the screen size to 19' wide. Where Art is right that you really don't want to be using this with screen sizes smaller than 16' :)

:wink:

Thanks for the clarification !

Art
 

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What should also be exciting for Art, is that if this PJ delivers its quoted 1,000,000:1 native on/off contrast ratio - while it delivers that astonishing 500nits (I believe about double that of your current dual 5000ES stack Art?) peak brightness, it should also deliver a black floor that is around 1/25th that of your 5000ES stack. :eek::cool:

I would assume that the ANSI contrast is off the chart too?

It should deliver a truly stunning image.

One quick question though - if the laser light source is off in another box in a rack somewhere (presumably connected by fibre optics?) - why does the head unit need to be so damn big? You would have thought they could condense this down to something similar to a standard domestic projector?
 

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Actually, whilst I think about it - when you meet with Christie, please do point out to them that if they made a small unit around the size of the new JVC's and Sony's, with say, 4000 lumens laser and a good lens for say, $25-$35k, they could probably mop up the entire global projector market from that price point upwards!
 

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Albeit a dream scenario in terms of brightness and contrast, RGB laser speckle might still be an issue? Especially if the screen fabric being used is not sufficiently matte... Looking forward to reading your impressions!
 
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Albeit a dream scenario in terms of brightness and contrast, RGB laser speckle might still be an issue? Especially if the screen fabric being used is not sufficiently matte... Looking forward to reading your impressions!
What is it that causes the 'speckle' on these RGB laser systems?
 

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What is it that causes the 'speckle' on these RGB laser systems?
In "short"; "Speckle arises due to the quasi-random interference that is generated because the coherent laser beam is scattered from a projection screen that is rough on the scale of the optical wavelength. As the speckle pattern in a laser projector is usually the sum of multiple, independent speckle patterns each of which is created by a large number of independent scattering elements, the intensity of the speckle pattern typically obeys Gaussian statistics (see8, and supplementary data 1). The amount of speckle is usually quantified by the speckle contrast value C = sigma/mean, where the numerator is the standard deviation of the intensity fluctuations and the denominator is the mean intensity." Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/srep14105.

Blue laser going through phosphor does not speckle to any significant degree, but green and red pure laser tends to speckle more, while blue lasers, probably due to the lower light intensity, seems to speckle less... Still, as per Wolfgangs Thor 6P (RGB x2) laser projector, he has been able to reduce the amount of speckle to a minimum using a very matte type of screen, so it seems to be workable in some cases, but probably depending on the amount. If the light output is even greater on this Christie unit, and the screen smaller, speckle might be more prominent...
 

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What is it that causes the 'speckle' on these RGB laser systems?
Speckle manifests due to interference resulting from the narrow wavelength nature of laser
light sources due to scatter that occurs when the lasers hit and reflect off the screen material surface

EDIT: I see Jon beat me to it! And with a fully comprehensive response too! Nice one Jon! :)

:wink:
 

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Albeit a dream scenario in terms of brightness and contrast, RGB laser speckle might still be an issue? Especially if the screen fabric being used is not sufficiently matte... Looking forward to reading your impressions!
There will absolutely 100% be laser speckle with this projector. However, this is entirely a non-issue as there exists solutions that are very effective and inexpensive that eliminate this :)

It also helps if you use a screen material that is resistant to laser speckle such that it is reduced a bit, such as an excellent screen material called DreamScreen Ultraweave V6. Are you familiar with this material Jon because it really is superb? ;) :D :p

:wink:
 

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Actually, whilst I think about it - when you meet with Christie, please do point out to them that if they made a small unit around the size of the new JVC's and Sony's, with say, 4000 lumens laser and a good lens for say, $25-$35k, they could probably mop up the entire global projector market from that price point upwards!


the Barco Balder CinemaScope (which I have) has 4000 lumens and is in that price range.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

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Actually, whilst I think about it - when you meet with Christie, please do point out to them that if they made a small unit around the size of the new JVC's and Sony's, with say, 4000 lumens laser and a good lens for say, $25-$35k, they could probably mop up the entire global projector market from that price point upwards!
Will do :)

BUT very unlikely to happen. Christies primary target demographics are commercial and professional industries. So the only projectors able to be installed in home theatres will be tweaked versions of those and a 4000 lumens projector is square peg round hole with respect to those markets.

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the Barco Balder CinemaScope (which I have) has 4000 lumens and is in that price range.
I mean no disrespect, but thats a TI wobulation/faux-4K XPR chip with, what, circa 2000:1 native? It wouldn't even be in the same league as a projector that could use this 'spacial modulator' to produce 1,000,000:1 on/off with a 4K native device.
 

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It is DLP so ANSI should be high. I will be measuring it along with a load of other stuff :)

:wink:
But I mean aside from that, the 'spacial modulator' it should be able to almost completely block light on the black squares in terms of reflection off the DMD - all that should be left to pollute the ANSI pattern will be lens and light path reflections.
 

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@ARROW-AV, is this the mystery processor you have been hinting at for a while? Or is that still another one?

For the Chistie/Dolby projector, do you know how many "local dimming zones" there will be?

To be honest, I think I would have preferred an LCD or LCoS display to do the dimming, because that would probably have allowed much more dimming zones than this approach will.
 
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