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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Press release; http://www.christiedigital.co.uk/emea/news-room/press-releases/Pages/christie-demos-6p-laser-breakthrough-english.aspx

Christie to demo breakthrough 3D cinema technology for premium cinema experiences with latest ‘6-Primary’ 4K laser projector

Fibre-coupled, 6-Primary projection system architecture ideally suited for immersive 3D experiences including Dolby 3D


Wokingham, UK – (3rd March 2014) – Christie® today announced upcoming demonstrations of the world’s most advanced laser projection architecture and Dolby® 3D,


to be held in the Christie Innovation Theatres throughout CinemaCon 2014 (Caesars Palace, 24th–27th March)


and the National Association of Broadcasters NAB Show® (Las Vegas Convention Centre, 5th–10th April).


Christie DLP Cinema® laser projectors using 6-Primary (6P) colour laser modules, earmarked for mass production in early 2015, will show how 3D light levels, image uniformity, viewing comfort, and a sense of immersion can be vastly improved, especially when combined with advanced separation technology like Dolby 3D, versus conventional 3D systems found in cinemas around the world today.


“Christie’s latest laser projection technology, using 6 specific primary colours rather than filtered or polarised broad-spectrum white light, brings dramatically improved 3D efficiency to projection systems, regardless of the size of screen in premium movie theatres,” added Shaw.


Our CinemaCon and NAB Show demonstrations will be the first 6P laser events available to the broad cinema community, from filmmakers to exhibitors, and reaffirms Christie’s 80-year commitment to cinema innovation, rather than ‘moving beyond digital cinema’ as some other industry players have promised.”


At least twice as efficient as today’s best 3D systems, Christie’s 6P laser projectors generate a proprietary mix of photoptically-optimised light wavelengths for each eye directly from the source, in effect eliminating the need for a highly inefficient stage of filtering or polarising the light as it leaves the projector.


The Christie demos will use Dolby® 3D glasses specifically engineered to exactly match the 6 primary laser light wavelengths to yield nearly 90 percent light efficiency.


“Their colour separation based technique for 3D is well-regarded as the gold standard among industry professionals, especially for its true colour reproduction, compatibility with low-gain white screens, and superior crosstalk performance – only now it can be part of a system that is tremendously more light efficient,” said Shaw.


Consistent with efforts so far in developing 3-Primary (3P) laser projectors, which Christie sees filling important needs in several, non-cinema industries, Christie laser projectors will provide industry-leading brightness (up to 72,000 lumens per projector head), wider colour gamut capabilities, higher contrast, and dramatically reduced maintenance requirements, resulting in a better experience for all applications.


Specific to the development of cinema laser projectors, Christie leads the industry in this area, having announced last year that it would supply and install the world’s first commercial laser projection solution for the Seattle Cinerama Theatre, and that it was the first to receive a US FDA approval of variance allowing the sale and installation of laser projectors in movie theatres and other high performance projection venues.
 

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So, this year I should make sure to go and see the demo at IBC. Usually these have been on times that are easiliy filled with other commitments.
 

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Thanks coolscan for the post. Real excited for laser technology to hit the scene. Man 90 percent light effeciency is exactly what 3D needs. Will be keeping a close eye on this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Fact is that more light power for 3D or even laser isn't the most interesting here, but the use of 6 primaries from lasers.

Thats like the colors of the color-wheel on a one-chip DLP.


Wonder how they do that with laser. Do they use 6 separate lasers - one for each primary - or do they split 3 RGB laser (each color into two) into six colors - or do they use RGB for creating white light, like the other Christie Laser projector (the one they are installing in Seattle) and then split the white light with prisms into six primaries?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan  /t/1522428/christie-to-demo-breakthrough-6-primary-4k-laser-projector#post_24505319


Fact is that more light power for 3D or even laser isn't the most interesting here, but the use of 6 primaries from lasers.

Thats like the colors of the color-wheel on a one-chip DLP.


Wonder how they do that with laser. Do they use 6 separate lasers - one for each primary - or do they split 3 RGB laser (each color into two) into six colors - or do they use RGB for creating white light, like the other Christie Laser projector (the one they are installing in Seattle) and then split the white light with prisms into six primaries?

Thats a good question. I wonder if its like current 3-chip DLPs but with 6-chips? Gotta something advanced to deal with the speckle too. Really exciting stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddig  /t/1522428/christie-to-demo-breakthrough-6-primary-4k-laser-projector#post_24524117


Thats a good question. I wonder if its like current 3-chip DLPs but with 6-chips? Gotta something advanced to deal with the speckle too. Really exciting stuff.
6 primary color laser on a 3-chip. They could even do this on a 1-chip - already having the algorithms for it as it would be the same as using a 6-primary color-wheel - something for projectiondesign 1-chip, now owned by Barco?.


CinemaCon is running now - anybody attending or finding reports on technical solutions and quality?


Barco is also demoing a new Laser projector with 6-primary lasers.

Both companies claim they are 'World First' demoing their new projectors at the same tradeshow for the first time.



Both companies are using the Dolby 3D advanced color separation technology.


Here is the press release for Christies CinemaCon demo;

Christie Innovation Theatre debuts world’s first ‘6-Primary’ 4K laser projector, showing Hollywood clips at 14 foot lamberts.

Fiber-coupled, 6-primary projection system architecture ideally suited for Immersive 3D experiences including Dolby 3D.


CinemaCon/Las Vegas – (20th March 2014) Highlighting the trade show at CinemaCon will be daily demonstrations of Christie DLP Cinema® laser projectors, using 6-Primary (6P) colour laser modules, in the Christie Innovation Theatre.


Earmarked for mass production in early 2015, these projectors will show how 3D light levels, colour fidelity, image uniformity, viewing comfort, and a sense of immersion can be vastly improved, especially when combined with advanced colour separation technology like Dolby 3D®, versus the conventional 3D systems found in cinemas around the world today.


This press has slightly more on the technology; http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/25074825/christie-to-demo-breakthrough-3d-cinema-technology-for-premium-cinema-experiences-with-latest-6-primary-4k-laser-projector

"Christie's latest laser projection technology, using 6 specific primary colors rather than filtered or polarized broad-spectrum white light,


Christie's 6P laser projectors generate a proprietary mix of photoptically-optimized light wavelengths for each eye directly from the source, in effect eliminating the need for a highly inefficient stage of filtering or polarizing the light as it leaves the projector.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan  /t/1522428/christie-to-demo-breakthrough-6-primary-4k-laser-projector#post_24505319


Wonder how they do that with laser. Do they use 6 separate lasers - one for each primary - or do they split 3 RGB laser (each color into two) into six colors - or do they use RGB for creating white light, like the other Christie Laser projector (the one they are installing in Seattle) and then split the white light with prisms into six primaries?

I assume what they're doing is having two each, Red, Green, Blue lasers, but at slightly different wavelengths (like 633, and 635 nm for Red for example) so that the Dolby Glasses can filter them while still providing Red, Green and Blue to each eye. This way you don't need filters in the projector (not that they would work well with lasers anyway).
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89  /t/1522428/christie-to-demo-breakthrough-6-primary-4k-laser-projector#post_24532311


I assume what they're doing is having two each, Red, Green, Blue lasers, but at slightly different wavelengths (like 633, and 635 nm for Red for example) so that the Dolby Glasses can filter them while still providing Red, Green and Blue to each eye. This way you don't need filters in the projector (not that they would work well with lasers anyway).


I think they have to go further than that - they need to reach the 6 primary colors - it is possible that the Dolby 3D advanced color separation technology they both use is partly for separating 3 primaries into 6.


Red, Blue, Green, Cyan, Magenta, Yellow are the 6-primary colors used in 1-chip DLP projectors.






Animated version; http://www.digitalprojection.com/news/images/colorwheels.html


.
 

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But there are only three primary colors, Red, Green and Blue, Cyan, Magenta and Yellow are secondary. Also no home theater projectors you RGBCMY wheels as it's not possible to get accurate color with them (at least not without wasting light by not using the secondary segments).


Dolby 3D requires two different wavelengths for each primary color:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_3D


It separates left from right by using slightly different wavelengths for each primary. It's not unlike the old anaglyph 3D system except instead of using only one color for each eye, it filters three.


Specifically I'm looking at these statements from the OP:


“"Christie’s latest laser projection technology, using 6 specific primary colours rather than filtered or polarised broad-spectrum white light, brings dramatically improved 3D efficiency to projection systems, regardless of the size of screen in premium movie theatres,”"


"The Christie demos will use Dolby® 3D glasses specifically engineered to exactly match the 6 primary laser light wavelengths to yield nearly 90 percent light efficiency."


So they say they're using custom Dolby 3D glasses, which requires two slightly different wavelengths of each primary color, plus they say they're not using filtered light from the projector. To me it seems pretty clear that when they say they're using 6 primaries, what they mean is they're using 6 lasers, two for each primary, to directly generate the wavelengths they need for the Dolby 3D system to work.


Seems like a pretty slick solution.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89  /t/1522428/christie-to-demo-breakthrough-6-primary-4k-laser-projector#post_24532792


But there are only three primary colors, Red, Green and Blue, Cyan, Magenta and Yellow are secondary.
Exactly - the three primaries and the three secondaries are commonly called the 6-primary colors when they are used together.

Just google 6 primariy colors and see how many hits you get.
Quote:
Also no home theater projectors you RGBCMY wheels as it's not possible to get accurate color with them (at least not without wasting light by not using the secondary segments).
Take another look at the image ofcolorwheels offered from Digital Projection.

There have been used a lot of colorwheel configurations in DLP projectors with various success, including white segments and ND segments.

Part of Texas Instruments' BrilliantColor™ program.

Depends completely on use and configurations of the projector.







Quote:
Dolby 3D requires two different wavelengths for each primary color:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_3D


It separates left from right by using slightly different wavelengths for each primary. It's not unlike the old anaglyph 3D system except instead of using only one color for each eye, it filters three.
It is possible that what they now call "the Dolby 3D advanced color separation technology" is a newly developed system that hasn't reached Wiki yet. These projectors are supposed to function as 2D projectors also without Dolby glasses.


It is exactly such questions we would have liked to have answered.
Quote:
Specifically I'm looking at these statements from the OP:


“"Christie’s latest laser projection technology, using 6 specific primary colours rather than filtered or polarised broad-spectrum white light, brings dramatically improved 3D efficiency to projection systems, regardless of the size of screen in premium movie theatres,”"
It doesn't mean what you think it means.


He is explaining the difference between the quite new 3P laser projector that mix RGB to produce white light before it is split again like the lamp projectors into RGB for each of the three DLP DMD's. That is what is meant by broad spectrum white light projectors that needs to be filtered and polarized.


That is how all the DLP laser projectors have been till now(Christie, Barco & NEC), also the quasi laser/LED projectors and the "Blue Laser Remote Phosphorous" projectors (Sony).

Only the Kodak laser projector which Barco now build for IMAX use separate lasers.


The new 6P projector use three separate laser for each of the six colors.
Quote:
"The Christie demos will use Dolby® 3D glasses specifically engineered to exactly match the 6 primary laser light wavelengths to yield nearly 90 percent light efficiency."


So they say they're using custom Dolby 3D glasses, which requires two slightly different wavelengths of each primary color, plus they say they're not using filtered light from the projector. To me it seems pretty clear that when they say they're using 6 primaries, what they mean is they're using 6 lasers, two for each primary, to directly generate the wavelengths they need for the Dolby 3D system to work.


Seems like a pretty slick solution.

It is of course possible you are right - but then they misname it, if they use six RGB laser, that would be a six laser RGB projector - but here they call it 6-Primaries.


If 6-primaries only means slight modulation of RGB, then it is not six primaries.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan  /t/1522428/christie-to-demo-breakthrough-6-primary-4k-laser-projector#post_24534076


Take another look at the image ofcolorwheels offered from Digital Projection.

There have been used a lot of colorwheel configurations in DLP projectors with various success, including white segments and ND segments.

Part of Texas Instruments' BrilliantColor™ program.

Depends completely on use and configurations of the projector.

Oh, for sure, but all of the "serious" HT projectors only use RGB, usually with a dark green segment. Reason being you can't maintain the benefits of those extra segments and achieve an accurate calibration.
Quote:
The new 6P projector use three separate laser for each of the six colors.

It is of course possible you are right - but then they misname it, if they use six RGB laser, that would be a six laser RGB projector - but here they call it 6-Primaries.


If 6-primaries only means slight modulation of RGB, then it is not six primaries.

It's just a guess for sure, but I just don't see the benefit of CMY segments or lasers, where as if they're going to need to separate left/right via wavelength filtering it just seems very natural to use two lasers for each color. Otherwise you have to use something like phosphors and filters since you can't filter a single wavelength lasers to two colors. But then I think you lose your 90% efficiency.
 

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Fact is that more light power for 3D or even laser isn't the most interesting here, but the use of 6 primaries from lasers.
Thats like the colors of the color-wheel on a one-chip DLP.

Wonder how they do that with laser. Do they use 6 separate lasers - one for each primary - or do they split 3 RGB laser (each color into two) into six colors - or do they use RGB for creating white light, like the other Christie Laser projector (the one they are installing in Seattle) and then split the white light with prisms into six primaries?
Do you know if the Christie 6p does HDR? I'm curious if the Cinerama does HDR projection?
 

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Do you know if the Christie 6p does HDR? I'm curious if the Cinerama does HDR projection?

Technically it could if only Christie wasn't so backwards in their imb interface which has a TI restriction on alternative content, in fact because they built their IMS from the ground up the only company that looks like will be able to pull this off (still waiting for confirmation on ALCHEMY details) is Barco. NEC relies on Dolby IMS (formerly DOREMI) not going to be able to get hdmi2.0 (much less hdmi 2.0a).


Dolby Doremi need to start working on a gen 4 ims/imb.

When dci 2.0 spec comes out they may be upgradeable though, That would be the one hope for Cinerama although a dolby cinema solution would be better and more immediate, but they would have to relocate the existing lasers to the owners home theater I guess.....:D

So for Cinema Lasers HDR NOT GOING TO HAPPEN until DCI 2.0 spec.

The only way to get hdr out of a cinema projector that appears possible in the near term would be through Barco Alchemy Installed on Barco or Barco OEM Laser projectors.


Very Proud Papa to have instigated this very thing to happen " by making the Alchemy the Trojan Horse" to enable hdr in laser projectors (as you can see it) here:


and here is my Aussie co-geek on the Alchemy






It's funny that the Christie NON Cinema boxer if driven via laser would be fully hdmi2.0 compatible a, adding the trailing a is a software development thing.


Barco right now is able to play 4k 60 through display port ( and still owing hdmi bd 3D functionality I think-they better get on it for cedia ;)) but there is new effort to take the hdmi port to hdmi 2.0a.:)


So with 20 kw lasers you can increase contrast enough to get 6 f-stop HDR(the bare minimum for SMTE 2084 consumer end) on a 23 foot screen, if you want to hit 8 f-stops(the top of 2084 non-dolby consumer range) you may need to go up 5k, and if you want to do instead Color Grading and production then you need to get 30kw to hit 10-11 f-stops. That is the mastering dynamic range level to create 2084 consumer content.(ex dolby). They operate on 17 f-stops thereabout but can hit close to 20 I hear.


Hope the explanations are not too confusing.:)
 

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Technically it could if only Christie wasn't so backwards in their imb interface which has a TI restriction on alternative content, in fact because they built their IMS from the ground up the only company that looks like will be able to pull this off (still waiting for confirmation on ALCHEMY details) is Barco. NEC relies on Dolby IMS (formerly DOREMI) not going to be able to get hdmi2.0 (much less hdmi 2.0a).


Dolby Doremi need to start working on a gen 4 ims/imb.

When dci 2.0 spec comes out they may be upgradeable though, That would be the one hope for Cinerama although a dolby cinema solution would be better and more immediate, but they would have to relocate the existing lasers to the owners home theater I guess.....:D

So for Cinema Lasers HDR NOT GOING TO HAPPEN until DCI 2.0 spec.

The only way to get hdr out of a cinema projector that appears possible in the near term would be through Barco Alchemy Installed on Barco or Barco OEM Laser projectors.


Very Proud Papa to have instigated this very thing to happen " by making the Alchemy the Trojan Horse" to enable hdr in laser projectors (as you can see it) here:


https://youtu.be/R63vqzgTshk
and here is my Aussie co-geek on the Alchemy
https://youtu.be/_qbvGBqNkfA






It's funny that the Christie NON Cinema boxer if driven via laser would be fully hdmi2.0 compatible a, adding the trailing a is a software development thing.


Barco right now is able to play 4k 60 through display port ( and still owing hdmi bd 3D functionality I think-they better get on it for cedia ;)) but there is new effort to take the hdmi port to hdmi 2.0a.:)


So with 20 kw lasers you can increase contrast enough to get 6 f-stop HDR(the bare minimum for SMTE 2084 consumer end) on a 23 foot screen, if you want to hit 8 f-stops(the top of 2084 non-dolby consumer range) you may need to go up 5k, and if you want to do instead Color Grading and production then you need to get 30kw to hit 10-11 f-stops. That is the mastering dynamic range level to create 2084 consumer content.(ex dolby). They operate on 17 f-stops thereabout but can hit close to 20 I hear.


Hope the explanations are not too confusing.:)
Thanks!

Though IMAX laser & AMC prime theaters/ Dolby Cinema have HDR projection though no?

I was reading the specs of the IMAX laser vs. Christie 6p... it looks like the IMAX is 22 FTL while the Christie 6p is only 14 FTL? Or does that not matter for HDR?

I was mostly asking because a friend was asking where to see Star Wars when it comes out... he lives in Seattle where the Boeing IMAX is laser, but they have the cinerama as well.
I told him the Boeing would be the best bet due the disparity between foot lamberts, + the Cinerama might have a cropped presentation of the IMAX scenes in Star Wars? They do have a 70mm projector @ the cinerama... but probably @ a different aspect ratio from IMAX I'd imagine.
 

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Thanks!

Though IMAX laser & AMC prime theaters/ Dolby Cinema have HDR projection though no?

I was reading the specs of the IMAX laser vs. Christie 6p... it looks like the IMAX is 22 FTL while the Christie 6p is only 14 FTL? Or does that not matter for HDR?

I was mostly asking because a friend was asking where to see Star Wars when it comes out... he lives in Seattle where the Boeing IMAX is laser, but they have the cinerama as well.
I told him the Boeing would be the best bet due the disparity between foot lamberts, + the Cinerama might have a cropped presentation of the IMAX scenes in Star Wars? They do have a 70mm projector @ the cinerama... but probably @ a different aspect ratio from IMAX I'd imagine.

Best tech Hierarchy at the moment:

1-Dolby Cinema/AMC Prime 22-30 fLs 2D (14 3d) 40k-1 contrast
2-Laser Imax 22 fLs (14 3d) 8k-1 currently without adaptive iris probably 20k-1 cr. with adaptive iris
3-Christie Laser duo (stock unit not modified) can do 14fL 3d with 3700-1 cr they probably dial down to 14 fL for 2D.
 

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Peter reports for Dolby Cinema are 106 nits, compared to standard DCi 48 nits.

Dolby Vision can carry upto 27 f stops, the competion told me, not 17. Whether all are used in Dolby Cinema exhibition...
 

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Peter reports for Dolby Cinema are 106 nits, compared to standard DCi 48 nits.

Dolby Vision can carry upto 27 f stops, the competion told me, not 17. Whether all are used in Dolby Cinema exhibition...
27 f-stops, ummm… someone was pulling your leg. 106/2^27 = .0000008 nits. You are never, ever going to get that black level on screen. You can't even encode that in 12 bits PQ.

You could theoretically take the max PQ value of 10,000 nits and divide that by the smallest non-zero PQ value to come up with a number around 27 f-stops, but realistically no display can reproduce those darkest values.
 

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Best tech Hierarchy at the moment:

1-Dolby Cinema/AMC Prime 22-30 fLs 2D (14 3d) 40k-1 contrast
2-Laser Imax 22 fLs (14 3d) 8k-1 currently without adaptive iris probably 20k-1 cr. with adaptive iris
3-Christie Laser duo (stock unit not modified) can do 14fL 3d with 3700-1 cr they probably dial down to 14 fL for 2D.

Thanks for the summary !
 

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2D output is up to the theater owner. Eindhoven before the final upgrade with Dolby Vision, so with the regular Christie 6P 2x30K lumens, ran at 30 fL in 2D.
 
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