[sat24]

I take it this is normal - pretty much every time it switches between the video inputs, it does a "clickety" click. Is that the crossover - is it a mechanical switch? Would this make the system wear and tear occur faster?


My previous receiver (Sony STR-DE895) didnt do this (except when powering on).

 

[cneely8]

Read your manual cover to cover. I think the Denons click when there are certain things not connected, like you switch to "TV" on the AVR, but there is only audio connected in, no video connection. It says *something* like that in my 3805 manual.

 

[NightHawk]

It's normal. Electro-mechanical relays used to route the different audio/video sources. Any relay will have a finite lifespan but hopefully Denon units contain quality devices.

 

[Mars Rocket]

"hopefully"? Think of all those people spending hundreds or thousands of $$ on interconnects and speaker wire. The signal is only as good as its weakest link, and routing it through a mechanical relay can't be a good thing in the long term. Are the relay contacts gold-plated? Does anybody even manufacture high-end relays? I suspect the relays they use will probably do fine for as long as most people use the equipment (5 years? 10 years?), but it is a cause for concern and is *one* of the reasons I went with Pioneer instead of Denon.

 

[NightHawk]

Well Mr Rocket anyone who spends thousands of dollars on speaker wire is lost anyway.


Any switch technology has its good and bad points. The only alternative to relays would be an active switch device like a FET, a MOSFET or a transister. An active device can't be beat for switching speed and reliability. On the other hand a solid contact relay wins the contest for linearity, low signal loss and inexpensive replacement. Take your pick.

 

[csroc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightHawk Well Mr Rocket anyone who spends thousands of dollars on speaker wire is lost anyway. Any switch technology has its good and bad points. The only alternative to relays would be an active switch device like a FET, a MOSFET or a transister. An active device can't be beat for switching speed and reliability. On the other hand a solid contact relay wins the contest for linearity, low signal loss and inexpensive replacement. Take your pick.

Relays are usually easy to replace, I wouldn't be very concerned about them and as mentioned by the time they die if they die on you then you'll probably be ready for new gear.

 

[Mars Rocket]

Quote:

Originally Posted by emorphien Relays are usually easy to replace, I wouldn't be very concerned about them and as mentioned by the time they die if they die on you then you'll probably be ready for new gear.

I was more concerned with the possibility of crud building up on the contacts through arcing and mechanical wear. I believe that complete failure is probably a rare enough event as to not be worth worrying about.


I don't actually know that the signal is routed through the relays in the Denon units, but I still didn't like the sound of the clicking.

 

[csroc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mars Rocket I was more concerned with the possibility of crud building up on the contacts through arcing and mechanical wear. I believe that complete failure is probably a rare enough event as to not be worth worrying about. I don't actually know that the signal is routed through the relays in the Denon units, but I still didn't like the sound of the clicking.

Well if it starts to sound so bad after years and years of use you're probably still either going to be looking to replace it or you're industrious enough yourself to swap out the relays with new ones.

 

[M Code]

Relays are used for video switching only, audio switching is done by solid state devices...

 

[Xayd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mars Rocket "hopefully"? Think of all those people spending hundreds or thousands of $$ on interconnects and speaker wire. The signal is only as good as its weakest link, and routing it through a mechanical relay can't be a good thing in the long term. Are the relay contacts gold-plated? Does anybody even manufacture high-end relays? I suspect the relays they use will probably do fine for as long as most people use the equipment (5 years? 10 years?), but it is a cause for concern and is *one* of the reasons I went with Pioneer instead of Denon.

man, through that whole post you were about to win an award for debunking cable myths with obvious truth, then when you get to the end i realize that it isn't sarcasm. oh well.


i would wager that you'll probably find a grand total of 2 or 3 companies at most who make these relays and sell them to electronics manufacturers, so there's a pretty good chance that they're all the same.


look at the "bulging capacitor" issue with computer motherboards from a couple of years ago. one component manufacturer makes bad batches of capacitors with a formula that they forgot to test first, and at least 10 different motherboard manufacturers have had multiple faulty motherboards from the situation since.


and before you try to claim that audio gear is different and your preferred brand uses different electronic components, no, they're not different, pretty much all using the same stuff. pick two and open them up and take a look sometime.

 

[Mars Rocket]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xayd man, through that whole post you were about to win an award for debunking cable myths with obvious truth, then when you get to the end i realize that it isn't sarcasm. oh well. i would wager that you'll probably find a grand total of 2 or 3 companies at most who make these relays and sell them to electronics manufacturers, so there's a pretty good chance that they're all the same. look at the "bulging capacitor" issue with computer motherboards from a couple of years ago. one component manufacturer makes bad batches of capacitors with a formula that they forgot to test first, and at least 10 different motherboard manufacturers have had multiple faulty motherboards from the situation since. and before you try to claim that audio gear is different and your preferred brand uses different electronic components, no, they're not different, pretty much all using the same stuff. pick two and open them up and take a look sometime.

I'm so confused by this post that I'm not even sure what *I* was trying to say originally.


I don't like the click of the relays. The sound annoys me and the fact that it's a mechanical component makes me have doubts about reliability. That's all. I don't upgrade my equipment very often. I expect my receiver to work reliably for at least 10 years.

 

[Xayd]

maybe it was a bit vague. i thought you were making a sarcastic post to take a jab at the thousand dollar cable crowd, but then realized you weren't .


and the point was that the relays in all receivers are probably all made by the same one or two companies regardless of the price of the end unit, so there would be no variation between brands as far as swtiches go.


evidence being a company that made capacitors using a bad formula and virtually every computer motherboard manufacturer in taiwan having defects due to it (they all use the same parts, outside of processors and DACs and such).

 

[NightHawk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by M Code Relays are used for video switching only, audio switching is done by solid state devices...

My Denon 5803 produces audible relay clicking when switching between several audio-only features. Features that have nothing to do with the video functions of the receiver.