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Are the black levels in the GW 2 really that bad? I mean it seems like people are making it out to be the worst tv ever with the black levels, but I mean the black levels are OK, I mean I don't know many people who stare at there screen and judge how BLACK it is.
 

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I doubt it is the worst TV ever in terms of black levels. However, this sets weak point is its contrast range. What the CNET review fails to take into account is all its PQ advantages compared to a CRT based RPT (convergance, screen burn-in, geometery etc).
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by ADGrant
What the CNET review fails to take into account is all its PQ advantages compared to a CRT based RPT (convergance, screen burn-in, geometery etc).
I do not know why you consistantly think LCD or DLP gives a better picture than a CRT based set. Here is a quote from the review:

Quote:
While LCD technology works wonders for the Grand WEGA's look, it doesn't do as good a job as CRTs in creating a beautiful picture.
:eek:
 

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kipp-

I respect their right to have their opinion. I just do not agree with them. My opinion was strengthened last week when, for the first time, I saw the GW 50XBR800 side-by-side with Mitsu, Pioneer and Tosh (RPTV) at Tweeter. I cannot swear how they had done their connects but Tweeter is one of the better outfits for that. I have to say that there was vwey little appreciable differences (differences were more "tweaking/slight {and I mean SLIGHT}...color differences. The Sony LCD was absolutely right in there or even slightly sharper than the rest. There is ALWAYS the argument about "Well, those stores always let the convergence go out..."

but yea, that is the point. If the CRT RPTV convergence IS spot on...VOILA- looke GREAT, but so often it just is not.

Not trying to "sell" the Sony LCD; just saying that this unit can really look sharp.


The "blacks" are VERY mediocre. I am NOT a black "freak" (no negative comentary toward those who are...hey Star Wars opening...jet black space is really nice). But the GW "blacks" are quite "acceptable" to most of us, and I REALLY am impressed about the color in general w/ the GW.

Of course, this is IMHO...take for what it is worth.


PS. The geometry on the GW is reeeeeally good, ala plasma in that regard.
 

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I've only had my GWII for a day but from what I've seen so far I can't complain about the blacks. I'm far from a expert and this is my first big screen purchase but the blacks look fine to me. If I had never heard of the weak-black problem before I got the TV then I'm sure it wouldn't have ever crossed my mind while watching.
 

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I have to agree with the comments on black levels. I was really expecting these terrible blacks because of all the talk on this board, but it is really fine for me. My last tv was the kvxbr400 36" tube and although the blacks might have been better on it I don't really care. The Star wars star scenes seem completely fine to me (i can see more than enough glittering stars on the 60"), especialy after playing around withe the set.

Daso
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by WOLVERNOLE
kipp-

I respect their right to have their opinion. I just do not agree with them. My opinion was strengthened last week when, for the first time, I saw the GW 50XBR800 side-by-side with Mitsu, Pioneer and Tosh (RPTV) at Tweeter. I cannot swear how they had done their connects but Tweeter is one of the better outfits for that. I have to say that there was vwey little appreciable differences (differences were more "tweaking/slight {and I mean SLIGHT}...color differences. The Sony LCD was absolutely right in there or even slightly sharper than the rest. There is ALWAYS the argument about "Well, those stores always let the convergence go out..."

but yea, that is the point. If the CRT RPTV convergence IS spot on...VOILA- looke GREAT, but so often it just is not.

Not trying to "sell" the Sony LCD; just saying that this unit can really look sharp.


The "blacks" are VERY mediocre. I am NOT a black "freak" (no negative comentary toward those who are...hey Star Wars opening...jet black space is really nice). But the GW "blacks" are quite "acceptable" to most of us, and I REALLY am impressed about the color in general w/ the GW.

Of course, this is IMHO...take for what it is worth.


PS. The geometry on the GW is reeeeeally good, ala plasma in that regard.
I would never compare sets in almost any "chain" of stores. Maybe in a place like "Sounds like Music" in Phoenix.
 

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Well some of us have to. I am not going to buy and return a bunch of large screen TVs. From what I saw the Grand Wega's image quality was better than the CRT RPTVs in many respects. I am also not sure why anyone would care what CNET thought. They aren't known for their quality HT reviews.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by kippjones
I do not know why you consistantly think LCD or DLP gives a better picture than a CRT based set. :eek:
Because the LCD sets have clearer, sharper pictures with more detail, less mushiness, and a generally more pleasing look. Not to mention, of

course, having essentially perfect geometry and perfect convergence.


Doug McDonald
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by jdmcdonald
Because the LCD sets have clearer, sharper pictures with more detail, less mushiness, and a generally more pleasing look. Not to mention, of

course, having essentially perfect geometry and perfect convergence.


Doug McDonald
I think you need to do some research my friend. Much of the above is false.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


I will give you the geometry and convergence, but that is it. Do some searches on the forum as this whole issue has been discussed extensively in the past many times. While DLP and LCD have potential, in their current form, CRTs beat them when it comes to overall resolution and PQ period. If you do not trust what CNet says, check with any credible magazine or ISF calibrator out there and they will tell you the same thing.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by kippjones
I think you need to do some research my friend. Much of the above is false.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


I will give you the geometry and convergence, but that is it. Do some searches on the forum as this whole issue has been discussed extensively in the past many times. While DLP and LCD have potential, in their current form, CRTs beat them when it comes to overall resolution and PQ period.
Actually, no. While it may be true that overall contrast, especially in the grey to black area, may be better on CRT-based sets, resolution is definately better on DLP and LCD sets. If you want to test out this theory, try displaying the 1280x720 alternating black/white pixel image on a CRT-based 'HDTV' set and see what you get, then go and see it on an LCD or DLP set.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by kippjones
I think you need to do some research my friend. Much of the above is false.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


I will give you the geometry and convergence, but that is it. Do some searches on the forum as this whole issue has been discussed extensively in the past many times. While DLP and LCD have potential, in their current form, CRTs beat them when it comes to overall resolution and PQ period. If you do not trust what CNet says, check with any credible magazine or ISF calibrator out there and they will tell you the same thing.
Kipp-

There were some very favorable reviews on last year's GW...and we can acknowledge the "black factor" last year (I think there is a modicum of improvement in that area in the "new" XBR model...but reviewer (wish I could site...I think Stereophile Guide to Home Theater) on last year said that GW's color, sharpness and geometry were absolutely right in there in comparison...and that is when RPTV's are PROPERLY set up.


ADGrant-

I agree...some of us have to compare something, somewhere, at some point. I was berated last year when I encouraged folks to really buy with stron bias toward mag reviews as it is not very "objective" to "eye-ball" comparisons in a store. I still contend that SOME stores (and Tweeter does do a pretty good job at consistently "showing" units...so mag reviews in combination w/ first-hand critical viewing is "good".


ONE LAST POINT, I WANT TO SEE GARY MERSON OR OTHER VERY RESPECTED REVIEWERS DO A REVIEW OF THE GW XBR800.
 

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Roger that Bish. There is no question that the PQ on the GWII beats CRT RPTVs. The first time I saw a HiDef image on a GWI, it was like looking through a window. The picture was (and is on the GWII) STUNNING.


I have always been disappointed with the PQ on RPTVs; the picture always seems a little fuzzy. Not so with the GWII. I don't know about the blacks--seems like much ado about nothing. The PQ on the GWII gets my vote.
 

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I think many are way to serious about this. I have had my 60"GWII for 4 days so far and I have no regrets coming from my XBR400. I've seen well set up plasma's (which I still love and hope to get in a 60" when the prices come down and some of the kinks are smoothed out), great rear projectors and DLP rp and each one has one distinct advantage or fault. I live in a high rise with copious amounts of sun every day and although not a videophile by any means I am really enjoying the GWII much more than I expected after reading reviews and so on and so on. So far, Brightness has not been an issue (even with sunlight) sharpnes has been great, Image beautiful in HD and DVD and digital cable has ranged from pretty damn good to lousy depending on the on the station. Admitedly some older movies or poor transfers can look lousy on this set, but my question is, would it really look any better on another? I agree that those poorer looking channels looked better on my XBR tube, but on the whole everything looks a lot better at 60" and I'm willing to pass on some of the misgivings. Bottom line is, forget what the reviewers say and just look at the different sets available and enjoy them. Pick the one that fits the form factor you need or can afford and take it from there. I agree that the blacks need some work (for detail), but so far nobody's complained and I haven't even tried to tune the thing yet (I'm having too much fun just watching TV). PS for anyone interested, so far (cross your fingers) I have seen no dead or stuck pixels, no red or gree lines, no blotches on the screen and no fan noise. Enjoy

Daso
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by kippjones
I think you need to do some research my friend. Much of the above is false.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


I will give you the geometry and convergence, but that is it. Do some searches on the forum ... While DLP and LCD have potential, in their current form, CRTs beat them when it comes to overall resolution and PQ period. If you do not trust what CNet says


I trust my eyes and only my eyes. I have never seen ANY CRT based TV

set, FP, RP, or direct, that produces a picture that is as good

as a what I see on my Panasonic PT40LC12. Clearly they can

produce a higher limiting resolution, about that there is no

question. But the picture "quality" simply is not as good. In particular,

to get the really good resolution they have to run at a very low light level, and that alone rules them out in the quality sweepstakes. The LCD

sets are simply brighter. Also, LCD sets, at least mine, have an

MTF that is flat as a pancake out to 1280 lines horizontally. A CRT

projection set with a limiting resolution of say 1600 lines is going to

have an MTF substantially below 1.0 at 1280 lines. It is this higher

MTF at 1280 that makes them look "better".


Finally, every CRT set I have ever seen with 1080i on it has either

shown serious interlace problems or covered them up by being fuzzy,

or by being too dim.


The closest I have seen to perfect in CRT are the Sony W-900 computer

monitor (direct view PROGRESSIVE) which is indeed stupendously

good, it's only fault is size and brightness, and a $38,000 Electrohome

projector which is fabulously sharp but is terribly dim ... and I might

add, I have not seen TV on it, only computer generated (animated)

stuff which is progressive (125p or 90p stereo).


It may well be that you accept dim pictures, which I do not.


My TV clearly produces a better picture than any movie house in

town except the Virginia, which has a 70mm Todd-AO

(30 Hz) projector. And my set is only 720p.


Doug McDonald






Doug McDonald
 

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I heard that. When I first walked into the store and saw the GWII, and even the GWI, I did a double take. The picture is astounding (considering black issues). Of course, I'm sure the other sets were not precisely calibrated and would have been better in a darker room, but isn't that a good point? The GWII picture is fabulous even under lousy conditions. The CRT's seem second rate, except when considering the very best of them under the best of conditions.
 

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Galen-

Excellent point. Just as a follow-up, there has been discussion on GW "blacks" ad nauseum...that said...just today I was watching a HDNet basketball game, w/ Princeton VS Santa Clara (a real "nail-biter"):rolleyes:

but anyway...the black uniforms were REALLY black. I think the less-than-"black-black " is in larger screen areas of black. In smaller areas (basketball jersey on HD) this unit is very capable. Detail in some large black areas are lacking. But again, I think folks are noting a very sharp picture.:) Definitely in opposition to CNet review noted.
 

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You guys have the "just because I bought it" syndrome its the best. I won't even try to go any further with you as you guys are stuck in that mode. Care to bring your argument over to the CRT projectors forum? You will get eaten up over there. I suggest you all do some fact checking, thanks for the really good laugh!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by kippjones
You guys have the "just because I bought it" syndrome its the best. I won't even try to go any further with you as you guys are stuck in that mode. Care to bring your argument over to the CRT projectors forum? You will get eaten up over there. I suggest you all do some fact checking, thanks for the really good laugh!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Ummm.... riiight.


I think you have it a bit backwards.
 
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