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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm getting ready to bit the bullet on a new TV this year. Right now the frontrunner is the Panasonic 65" ZT60, though the Samsung 8500 is also in the mix (I'm just not sure if I trust Samsung as a TV brand - plus, the extreme brightness the set is capable of makes me worry that it might be more prone to burn in or that it may wear out faster).


I went to Best Buy to look at some sets last week, and while they didn't have a ZT60 out yet, they had the VT60 and plenty of other options. What really got my attention though was one of the Sharp LCDs (I think it was the 70" 857 series) set up right next to a Panasonic VT50 plasma running off of the same source (one of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies).


Now, I know that the way the TVs are set in the retail stores often leaves a lot to be desired, but what blew me away was how much more intense the color was on the Sharp LCD. The colors almost looked like a HDR photograph, while the color on the plasma looked muddy and gray in comparison.


Was what I witnessed purely a result of the picture settings on the sets? Can plasma displays create colors as intense as LCDs? (I realize that plasmas can match or beat LCDs for color accuracy, but what about pure intensity, if I wish the colors on screen to be better than real life).


The glaringly bad part about the Sharp LCD was that the 'motionflow' or whatever Sharp's marketing term for super high frame rate was enabled, so it made the movie look like a cheap videotape recording, but I'm assuming that can be turned off easily enough.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd  /t/1472944/color-intensity-led-lcd-vs-plasma#post_23321504


From what I've seen the profit margin is higher on LCD so what do you think they're going to make any effort to look better? OTOH if you don't want accuracy but some artificial version of the color, I think LCD is a better choice for you.

I'm coming from a CRT based RPTV, so I want to make sure I don't lose anything when it comes to black levels, so that makes plasma attractive. Of course, the biggest reason I'm looking to replace the CRT RPTV is because of burn in lines, so that makes me wary of plasma.


It's not that I don't want accuracy, it's that (at least to my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong) the official color space for television is fairly narrow. Therefore it seems that a TV that can accentuate color beyond the official spec might create a more lifelike and 'real' image that one that accurately portrays the color according to spec.


I don't want people to look like they have a permanent case of sunburn, but I want the blue sky to be brilliantly blue, and red flowers to be as red as they'd be in real life. Maybe what I want can't be done with current technology. My current set is about 10 years old, so I figure a top end set from today should be able to be better in every way, I just want to make sure I don't compromise in any aspect of picture quality compared to what I already have.
 

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When I went to BB to look at an S60, the employee there was nice enough to let me fool with the remote. I did just turn the set onto vivid, but even there, I could immediately notice how much brighter and colorful the set was. Was it accurate to the source material? Probably not. But I don't think color intensity is something you'd have to worry about on a plasma. I've certainly never seen anyone complain about it.
 

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I'm just stating below from my limited understanding, please correct me if I'm wrong:


The problem is not that the TV can't show more color than the standard Rec709 color space.

I think most modern TV can actually show more color than Rec709 color space.


The problem is the source, or the camera. It captures in Rec709.

So, for example, if it captures color BLUE123, you should see on your TV color BLUE123, not BLUE124.

The BLUE123 that the camera capture IS actual real life color.

The BLUE124 might be actual real life color, OR might be NOT, because the camera doesn't capture it. Only the TV shows it using prediction.

The TV would not know if the BLUE124 is actually there in real life when the shooting takes place.


That's why we need xvYCC (x.v.Color) or Rec2020 color capabilities in the camera/source itself before any increase in color space would be beneficial in the TV.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NulloModo  /t/1472944/color-intensity-led-lcd-vs-plasma#post_23321569

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd  /t/1472944/color-intensity-led-lcd-vs-plasma#post_23321504


From what I've seen the profit margin is higher on LCD so what do you think they're going to make any effort to look better? OTOH if you don't want accuracy but some artificial version of the color, I think LCD is a better choice for you.

I'm coming from a CRT based RPTV, so I want to make sure I don't lose anything when it comes to black levels, so that makes plasma attractive. Of course, the biggest reason I'm looking to replace the CRT RPTV is because of burn in lines, so that makes me wary of plasma.


It's not that I don't want accuracy, it's that (at least to my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong) the official color space for television is fairly narrow. Therefore it seems that a TV that can accentuate color beyond the official spec might create a more lifelike and 'real' image that one that accurately portrays the color according to spec.


I don't want people to look like they have a permanent case of sunburn, but I want the blue sky to be brilliantly blue, and red flowers to be as red as they'd be in real life. Maybe what I want can't be done with current technology. My current set is about 10 years old, so I figure a top end set from today should be able to be better in every way, I just want to make sure I don't compromise in any aspect of picture quality compared to what I already have.

I had inherited an older HD RPTV (a Hitachi 60" with 1000 lines of resolution) with burn-in (damn espn logos from the previous user), and while that was a nice set I think my Samsung PN59D8000 smokes that picture in almost every way....maybe not as fluid for fast motion, but overall much better than LCD (which I tried before going for the plasma). I didn't care for the soap opera effects or the brighter than real life colors, am more a film fan and think the plasma is better suited. Plasma isn't perfect but it seems the best option right now. I haven't had any long term IR with the plasma let alone any burn in (but I don't watch static images very long or often nor use it as a computer monitor, etc).
 

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If you're after higher color temperature, you should also consider Sony HX950 or HX850. Sony has a very good preset that's designed just for that.


Me, I will let contrast ratio to do the talking instead of playing with color temperature. I was watching Samsung F8500 along with 70,80 inch Sharps, LG LM6700, and Samsung ES8000 in a light controlled showroom and the F8500 obliterated every LCDs put on vivid mode, and the F8500 didn't even have to be set on vivid mode to do that either. I know why LCDs rely on such high color temperature, because they have poor blacks and need something to hide it. Funnily, after looking at the F8500, those gaudy cartoony pictures put out by the LCDs look really pathetic and fake in comparison. ES8000's black was actually looking more blue, that was funny.
 

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Oh, high color intensity can also cause detrimental effect on the movie you are watching.


For example, I'm exaggerating a little bit,

The director actually use gloomy dull colors to set for a sad dark mood, but your TV shows them in high intensity saturated colors.

The mood will be different than what the director wants us to experience.


I think most, if not all, directors use Rec709 in their studio reference monitor. CMIIW..


IMHO, if you want to see intense colors on a plasma, just pop-in an animated pixar blu-ray..

My plasma TV colors are as intense as an LCD that it replaces.

Which is what the director wants us to see, an intense color on an animated cartoon movie.
 
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