AVS Forum banner

1101 - 1120 of 1145 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,498 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,102
Did a new 21^3 profiling of the screen,seems like i am missing something out due to the time it took (before around 3.05 and now 3:39) thought the new klein api was to improve the speed.
Klein settings i used:
Hi,

Have you checked for the panel calibration factory issue before starting the measurements?


The team, which tested many patterns, hasn't found any real improvement by performing 10000p with the specific display tech (WRGB).

It's not a ColourSpace issue, but it's about stability over that additional time required.

If you perform 5000p vs. 10000p with projector/LCD/plasma, you will see a different, but with LG WRGB not worth that extra time you will spend.

It's the reason we recommend even to Klein users to use 5000p patches.

About your total time, I believe it has to do with the fact that a 10000p patchset contains a lot of low light measurements.

The new development pg LightIllusion to improve repeatability in the low end for Klein will increase the measuring time for low-luminance patches.

I believe it's why you had these timings, as the 'old API' was measuring faster the low light patches.

'New' API measure slower low-light but with better repeatability.

The next beta will optimize the intelligent integrator algorithm for Klein much further, so we will have a new meter setting suggestion again, as integration time can be lower.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
414 Posts
RGB separation looks ok in pre-profile,no clipping.looking fwd for the new beta 🤓
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,498 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,104
Hi Ted, thank you for the detailed answer.

I used drift 15 because I wanted to make sure the patch sequence I made was good enough.
It's a better idea to use the suggested settings as per the LG guide.

Contact me to receive the full guide for ColourSpace.

After using these suggestions, having these results as 'reference', you can try different settings/patchset as the ColourSpace provide all the options for unlimited combinations.

I noticed in the past the TV having low luminosity for a while just to suddenly become brighter later, so maybe this is what happened here. Maybe my sequence has a longer series of dark patches and it made the TV enter into that low brightness mode.
OLED has that effect, but you can notice it when you perform manual calibration, but only when you keep displaying the same pattern to the screen and adjusting RGB balance TV controls in real-time.

I don't recommend that to OLED users, but this problem with not affect readings during profiling as the meter reads fast a bright patch; after the reading, the TPG will display the next one.

I also noticed that ColourSpace sometimes "hangs", but I don't think this is what happened here. For example, if you have two profile windows open, and you do measurements in one, while you start a i1Pro2 calibration in the other, the patch display in the first window halts until the i1Pro2 calibration is done - this is when using the ColourSpace internal pattern generator.

I will look in the measurements file and try to figure out what is the problematic area, as you suggested. Thanks!
It will 'pause' both probes (or one probe) and the patch if the PC is busy.

It has to do with PC CPU, not an issue coming from ColourSpace.

But no measurements are affected.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,498 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,105
Hi Ted,
This is a picture showing my profile run, where I suspect my meter settings - due to the sizer/number of tangents.

View attachment 3046140

Could you clarify the 1.5secs you refer to in your quote? My settings are shown, with the meter attached....but not all options are available. Are he other settings corect?

Its a Rev A.02 - and a Projector.
View attachment 3046137

Thanks,

Wayne.
Hi Wayne,

I will need the profile file to have a complete idea of what is happening.

I can see that projector has some active processing, but I need a full file and more details about the pre-calibration you have performed.

For REV.A meter and projector, BURST mode, 1.5 sec integration time, no intelligent integrator, enable low light average.

Generally, examine with Profile of Primary which options provide a native gamut using CIE chart.

Using RGB Separation, check which settings have less active processing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,498 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,106
@Ted, I identified the drift measurement with the problem.

It's the drift frame 2193. But I also noticed there is a patch frame 2193. What is the relationship between this patch frame and the drift frame with the same number?

As a side-note, ColourSpace said that it showed 4977 patch frames + 332 drift frames, for a total of 5309 frames.
ColourSpace/LightSpace uses the same logic in the numbering of color patches and drift patches.

The previous drift frames had good values (the previous drift frame number was 2177 and the next was 2209), and I'm thinking of removing from the measurements file all the frame patches between 2177 and 2209 as well as the drift frame 2193, instead of doing what you said, just to be safe. Does that make sense?
Please don't remove the frames, do as I suggested, edit, and paste valid data to that specific problematic frame.

Don't remove any other patch.

You can use 3D CIE to see if you have other bad readings using tangent lines.

If you are not sure, send me the profile file to see.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,498 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,107
Excellent,the patch set i used is the sofs7 preroll 1000p-profile 21*3-verification 1000p set,guess those was made for 2018 oled,maybe the later patchset 17*3 is better to use even if it has less points?
Please send me an email to forward you the optimized LG OLED patchsets for pre-roll/profile/verification.

All these are available inside the ColourSpace LG Guides zip.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,498 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,108

·
Registered
Joined
·
414 Posts
Please send me an email to forward you the optimized LG OLED patchsets for pre-roll/profile/verification.

All these are available inside the ColourSpace LG Guides zip.
Thanks,but i am already using them ted with the 17*3 charts,before i used the sofs7 21*3 but seems unnecessary now 🤓
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,007 Posts
Hello people,
I was just surfing the Light Illusion website looking for some in depth info about a function I always overlooked and I discovered the brand new interactive guide!

It's 100x more intuitive then the previous as it's just like using the software itself but with analytic descriptions of each and every features/key/menu/whatever. So I started to look at functions that I thought I know completely and learnt something more!

I sincerely invite you guys to have a look at it, you won't regret it!

Miki
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,432 Posts
Hello people,

I sincerely invite you guys to have a look at it, you won't regret it!

Miki
Thanks for posting this. I referred to it a couple of weeks ago, and the picture included in the Guide for i1Display Pro is very misleading though.

58D17EC4-40DA-47A0-84E7-A44855C1A886.jpeg

The picture is from the website, and shows Intelligent Integration value 0.030, with Freq. Mode selected (text later indicates AIO or Burst), with Zero for Extra Time.

The above failed for me (granted I have RevA), The info. I was then given on here was for Inteillgent Integration 1.0, with Extra Time always being 0.5secs.

I agree the new guide looks good though, I just lost confidence it will always be correct, and hence checking here is still worth it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
The patchset we need to load in custom sequences is "profiling.csv" which came with guides?
How long approximately it takes for the process to finish (i1d pro , settings as written in the guide)?

2. Can I do the 2pt calibration for HDR with PGenerator using CX HDMI override? I used HDMI Override menu to set the TV to ST2084 ,DCI P3 D65 with MaxCLL - 1000 MaxFALL - 400 as recommended in PGenerator thread for HD Fury . The patch scale I set to 16-235 in CS and Target Gamut sRGB with 2.2 gamma. Is it ok ?

* I had very close results using iTPG . I did a test after calibrating as I mentioned above , then I played HDR video and enabled iTPG via Device Control and checked the grayscale - had almost the same result as with HDMI OVerride menu setting + PGenerator

3. For varifying HDR I go to characterization tab and run PRIMARY&Secondary?

4. I did DV calibration and I can't upload the .txt file to my CX as instructed in the guide. I tried formatting the usb to FAT32 and NTFS and still it doesn't ask me to upload the config once I run DoVi video
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,212 Posts
I agree the new guide looks good though, I just lost confidence it will always be correct, and hence checking here is still worth it.
I've just been directed here by another user (we do not follow discussion outside of our own forums).

But, this comment really needs a reply, as the poster has totally missed the reality of the guides (and using ColourSpace is general), and how such probe setting MUST be defined by the user.

There are NO SET VALUES at all.
Different display/probe/tpgs/signal path combinations will require different settings.

The guides show/explain what each setting/option is used for.
It does not attempt to suggest valid settings, as we obviously have no idea what display/probe/tpgs/signal path any user will have...

This is even explained within the i1D3 page the above image has been taken from, as it details the different options, with the 'Integration Notes' tab going further into the options specific for the i1D3 (and the image is not from the new Interactive User Guide Miki has linked to... it is from the i1D3 page).

Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,432 Posts
Hi Wayne,

I will need the profile file to have a complete idea of what is happening.

I can see that projector has some active processing, but I need a full file and more details about the pre-calibration you have performed.

For REV.A meter and projector, BURST mode, 1.5 sec integration time, no intelligent integrator, enable low light average.
hi Ted, I tried your settings for my Rev A iD3 Pro, and the Low Light Average option (without Inteligent integration) refused to work. There was an error, but I didn’t get a screen grab. Something about my meter not having that option? I’ll try and double check what it was.....I moved on and ran another profile (15^3) and it took 6hr20m.

I have uploaded the LUT generated to the Lumagen, but I would appreciate your insight into the profile. Is it just the .BCS file I can send.?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,432 Posts
But, this comment really needs a reply, as the poster has totally missed the reality of the guides (and using ColourSpace is general), and how such probe setting MUST be defined by the user.

There are NO SET VALUES at all.
Different display/probe/tpgs/signal path combinations will require different settings.

Steve
Hi Steve,
I thought the guides would help me in the selection of the settings, maybe it is more of a manual. You are correct, I am DIY attempting to get used to the LS and then CS.

I was merely pointing out how good the Forum is to supplement the info there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
hi Ted, I tried your settings for my Rev A iD3 Pro, and the Low Light Average option (without Inteligent integration) refused to work. There was an error, but I didn’t get a screen grab. Something about my meter not having that option? I’ll try and double check what it was.....
That's an error when trying to use the AIO with a Rev.A meter usually. Are you sure you used Burst mode? :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,432 Posts
That's an error when trying to use the AIO with a Rev.A meter usually. Are you sure you used Burst mode? :)
It could have been a momentary mistake, but my consequent Profile run was Burst for certain. I’ll see if I can reproduce....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,089 Posts
The patchset we need to load in custom sequences is "profiling.csv" which came with guides?
How long approximately it takes for the process to finish (i1d pro , settings as written in the guide)?
Ted will need to confirm this, but I believe he has added and renamed the specific patch sequences to the guide so that users can easier understand which ones to use. In this case there would be at least a "Profiling" and "Verification" sequence, and possibly a "Pre-Roll" sequence too. Each would be self explanatory due to the naming of the sequence.

If I recall correctly (it has been a while since I ran it with an i1 Display Pro), a 17^3 sequence can take a little over 2 hours (2:15 maybe??) with the suggested recommended meter settings, plus Pre-Roll. That total (Profile + Pre-Roll) should come in under 3 Hrs total. Someone with more recent experience using an i1 Display Pro will need to confirm that though.

2. Can I do the 2pt calibration for HDR with PGenerator using CX HDMI override? I used HDMI Override menu to set the TV to ST2084 ,DCI P3 D65 with MaxCLL - 1000 MaxFALL - 400 as recommended in PGenerator thread for HD Fury . The patch scale I set to 16-235 in CS and Target Gamut sRGB with 2.2 gamma. Is it ok ?
I haven't tested this myself, but I guess that if the HDMI Override menu works as intended, then theoretically it could work. You can use UHD Rec2020 and modify the target to 2.2 Gamma.

But with you saying.......

* I had very close results using iTPG . I did a test after calibrating as I mentioned above , then I played HDR video and enabled iTPG via Device Control and checked the grayscale - had almost the same result as with HDMI OVerride menu setting + PGenerator
I guess the question kind of answers itself. Remember that with the instability of WOLED in general, especially at high luminance values, then it is very difficult to get repeatable measurements in HDR mode. So slight variances can always occur in HDR, even using a reference external pattern generator from one minute to the next.

I mean, just measure 100% white (or anything above 60% grey in PQ mode) on repeat for a few seconds to see this in action. At 100%, if you measure, for example, 700 nits and keep repeating that measurement for 5-10 seconds, it can not only creep up to 720 - 730 nits (or even higher if you measure for up to a minute or two and don't mind permanent image retention ;) ), but chromaticity will change also. It is why we say that using the iTPG is perfectly suitable for calibrating HDR/DoVi, because the panel is so unstable it can make any inaccuracies with the iTPG totally irrelevant.

3. For varifying HDR I go to characterization tab and run PRIMARY&Secondary?
You can verify PQ EOTF tracking (Grey Only). Colours will not track correctly using the standard Primary and Secondary patch sequence due to reduced peak luminance, tone mapping, loss of colour volume with WOLED at high luminance, among other things. @ConnecTEDDD will probably explain this in more detail when he has some more time and will possibly provide a solution for LG OLED users.

I also have plans at a later date to add some guidance to the guides for users using external pattern generators for HDR/Dolby Vision. But this has to be done in my free time which is currently quite limited.

4. I did DV calibration and I can't upload the .txt file to my CX as instructed in the guide. I tried formatting the usb to FAT32 and NTFS and still it doesn't ask me to upload the config once I run DoVi video
Try a different USB thumb drive. Some have reported this behaviour in the past and simply using a different drive solved the issue. While not essential, I have found smaller drives (16GB or less) formatted to FAT32 with absolutely nothing else on the drive but the Configuration file to work more consistently. Sometimes having another drive plugged into another USB port of the TV can block it too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Thanks to Ted and his patience with an noob like I am he helped me with the settings of the i1 pro xrite, but the settings for me was, intelligent int 1.000, integration time 0.75, extra delay 0.50.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,007 Posts
I would increase int. int. to at least 2 and decrease integration time to 0.25 (no more than 0.50 anyway)
 
1101 - 1120 of 1145 Posts
Top