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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi.


I just need a quick answer for this question.


I got the Philips 963 SA hooked to a Sanyo Z1. Everything set up for progressive scan.


I've got heavy combing on everything that moves horizontally.


Is this normal? I thought this effect was removed when watching with a progressive setup.


Svotnick.


(YUV connection from player to beamer, switch on back of Philips to Progressive, remote hack for Pal Progressive, Sanyo set to 575p, PScanOutput to Unprocessed, good picture while still, bad combing while moving)
 

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Do you see this artifact on other progressive scan systems?
 

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I suggest posting this over in that big huge 963sa thread.


The only thing I can think of is that maybe the deinterlacer is not tweaked for optimal performance w/ PAL-progressive. Afterall, it's not an officially supported feature. OTOH, I've been following most every thread about the 963sa and have yet to read about combing problems whether 480p or 576p output.


Ok. I vaguely remembered about 2-2 pulldown being a problem for the Faroudja fli2200 chip, so I doublechecked at the Secret's Shootout. And I was right. Follow this link for the test that checks 2-2 pulldown, which is needed for progressive output of PAL sources:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...20Film%20Flags


If you check the Shootout for ALL the Faroudja based players, they ALL fail this test. I suspect this is why you see combing although I would've thought the DCDi algorithm would take care of that, except in fast moving/panning scenes.


FYI, the Philips 963sa uses the newer Faroudja fli23xx chip, and I guess 2-2 pulldown still has not been addressed yet. Odd, but I would've expected more comments about this since quite a few owners are using this player for PAL-prog output.


_Man_


PS: FYI, I also found this under the "Part 5 - Progressive Scan DVD" section of the big Shootout article under the subsection "Genesis/Sage/Faroudja vs. Silicon Image" to further confirm the above:

Quote:
We've done extensive testing on the 2-2 pulldown performance of the two chips, and it's clear that the Silicon Image is much better at detecting 2-2 pulldown and staying in film mode with 2-2 material. In its default configuration, the Genesis doesn't have 2-2 pulldown enabled at all for NTSC, though it is enabled when it's in PAL mode. Even in PAL mode, the FLI2200 doesn't do quite as good a job at properly detecting 2-2 progressive. On the flip side, though, the Silicon Image combs more often on video material, because it more often incorrectly identifies video as 2-2 progressive. This just serves to highlight how difficult it is to always 'do the right thing' in deinterlacing.
Sounds like if you want PAL-prog for PAL sources, you should favor a player w/ SI deinterlacing, instead of Faroudja.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Svotnick
Hi.


...I thought this effect was removed when watching with a progressive setup...
And actually, even with S-video the combing shouldn't be present. Anything better than NTSC should be comb free.


It sounds like a de-interlacer or format conversion problem.
 

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I believe that Man-Fai Wong hit the nail on the head.


Svotnick

Does your Philips have another progressive mode? My panasonic has the same problem when set to progressive auto mode 1 but if you look at the secrets DVD shoot out going to progressive auto mode 2 can help eliminate this problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi


@Jules343


The only thing i've found "modewise" is the setting for PScanOutput. You can set that to Unprocessed and 480p. Both don't work, either with PAL or NTSC sources.


I've read about those modes, but because the 963 SA is my first progressive player i've got nothing to compare. The alternatives playerwise for me here in Germany are harman/kardon DVD25 and marantz DV-4300?.


With the DVD25, i am sure you can set different modes, i read about these in some german boards. i can find nothing of that kind in the 963 sa.


I'm wondering why there haven't been more complaints from people from Europe too, so i think it isn't a problem with all 963sa's, maybe only mine :(.


I called the Philips Helpline, but they said the problem might be that 2 deinterlacers are at work at the same time. One in the player and one in the Sanyo Z1. To me that sounds like..., i don't know :).



@Man-Fai Wong


Watching at the "progressive" picture with my setup, it seems there is no deinterlacing at all. That can't be true, because the Sanyo Z1 needs to be set to 575p to show the right picture. But as far as the quality of the picture is concerned, it looks like interlaced.


Svotnick
 

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I know this is obvious, but I'll ask it anyway .... did you make sure the little switch on the back, next to the component outputs, was switched to "progressive" instead of "interlaced"?


DeeK
 
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