[rmz76]

This is probably an old subject, but I'm curious now that we have sub $5000 Home projectors (e.g. Sony SXRD VPL-VW40) doing 1080p/24fps has the quality of home theater exceeded the local cinema's digital projectors?


Consider the VPL-VW40 can output 1920x1080 on a a 300" screen (25 feet) but I would wager most home theaters projectors are projecting on screens

Seems like projecting 1920x1080/24fps on a 150" (home theater) screen would provide more than twice the resolution of 4096x2160/24fps on a 55 foot screen... Maybe I'm misunderstanding this technology, but it seems like when you make screen size relative, the home equipment has surpassed the professional gear and at a fraction of the cost.


This would also be a good example of why 1080p is the pinnacle for home use. Going up to a 300"/25 foot screen 1080p can match the quality of the pro gear in terms of resolution:screen size and most consumers are opting for the

Thoughts?

 

[Denophile]

most theaters i have been to dont seem to use anyting close to that sony pro you listed--agreed that for me in rural NH that I get far better picture and sound with my setuo than what is locally available.

 

[fleaman]



Quote:
Originally Posted by rmz76 /forum/post/15517428


This would also be a good example of why 1080p is the pinnacle for home use. Going up to a 300"/25 foot screen 1080p can match the quality of the pro gear in terms of resolution:screen size and most consumers are opting for the

Thoughts?

You left out the most important factor> Viewing distance from the screen.


People at home my sit 8-10ft away from at 60" screen....in a cinema nobody sits that close to the screen.


Bottom line is a commercial cinema has to sit hundreds of people, so they need a big screen, but no one will be sitting close to the screen, so you don't need insane resolution. At a home theater people are sitting much closer to the screen, so the relative viewing resolution is reduced.


Resolution needs comes down to screen width x viewing distance.

 

[rmz76]



Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman /forum/post/15520393


Bottom line is a commercial cinema has to sit hundreds of people, so they need a big screen, but no one will be sitting close to the screen, so you don't need insane resolution.

This is an excellent point.


Following this resolution chart (as an example).
http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html


On a 55'/660" screen people sitting 40-50 feet back would notice the benefit of resolution > 1440p. But it makes a point that perhaps 4096x2160/24fps (AFIK that is THE standard Hollywood is using for cinema quality digital media) is an adequate replacement for film. I mean no disrespect also. I'm sure the powers that be hired consultants to help them determine optimal resolution for cinema displays long ago, but thinking about all this it just goes to show how incredibly good 1080p HD is for home use.

 

[marchewd]

I am a district manager for a movie theatre company. Our company has just started installing 4K Barco projectors with Real D 3D capabilities. I am amazed at the picture quality of these projectors. It gives a 1080P/24 Blu-Ray presentation. I have seen many commerical digital projector installs that have been less than perfect. I was skeptical until I saw our presentation. When done right, digital cinema presenation can be breathtaking.

 

[rmz76]



Quote:
Originally Posted by marchewd /forum/post/15523608


I am a district manager for a movie theatre company. Our company has just started installing 4K Barco projectors with Real D 3D capabilities. I am amazed at the picture quality of these projectors. It gives a 1080P/24 Blu-Ray presentation. I have seen many commerical digital projector installs that have been less than perfect. I was skeptical until I saw our presentation. When done right, digital cinema presenation can be breathtaking.

I hope the moderators will allow us to indulge this a bit more (in the sub $3000 forum), but the that 4k Barco is a 4096x2400 native projector. My understanding was that digital cinema called the 4k resolution... By chance can you confirm the resolution of the digital movies Hollywood sends out/pipes down to theaters? I've heard that 4096,2160 is a standard, but then others are saying Hollywood is using 1080p resolution for theatrical releases. Does anyone know for certain?

 

[imjay]

As already posted the two venues - home versus commercial - are so different that no apples-to-apples comparision can be made.


Also, most all commercial theaters in the US are converted or in queue to convert to digital projection with full 3D capability - 2009 should see hundreds more if not thousands going through this conversion and movie makers are committed to producing a LOT more 3D compatible content.


Maybe in a year or so when this shake-up of new technology settles down it would be a good idea to ask this question again.

 

[TrickMcKaha]

When I go to the theater I sit 1 screen width back, which tends to be the last row of the front section, just in front of the aisle across the center where most people enter. The very front row is about a half screen width and is ridiculously close for me. I think the resolution of the picture is adequate even in the front row, though.


Few people at home choose to sit closer than 1 screen width. I think 1080p is about as much resolution as the human eye can discriminate at 1 screen width.

 

[marchewd]

The projectors are capable of resolving 4K images; however they are downsampled to 1080P. Theatres are starting to convert, but there is a stalemate between the studios and exhibitors. Until that gets worked out, I wouldn't say it's going to be a huge roll out in 2009. It's about $100K for the projector and audio upgrade per auditorium. The studios want the exhibitors to pay for it all, while the exhibitors want the studios to help with the transition since they are getting the better end of the deal (no 35mm print costs and reduced shipping). Hopefully these issues will get ironed out, but no progress has been made the past 12 months. As for the best possible seating, it's about 3/4 of the way into the auditorium (from the front of the screen). That is where the mikes are setup to do all of the sound calibration of the processors.

 

[fleaman]



Quote:
Originally Posted by marchewd /forum/post/15525867


The projectors are capable of resolving 4K images; however they are downsampled to 1080P. .

You mean the projectors are being sent 1080p?


What kind of media do they use? And what's its resolution?

 

[marchewd]

Well, it's actually a 2K resolution (not 1080P), but I do not know the native resolution yet. They will be installing a digital projector in the theatre where my office is at in about a month and will have more specifics then.

 

[eightninesuited]

I think most "digital" cinemas are 3 chip DLP 1080p projectors or similar to that resolution.

 

[marchewd]

It is a 3-chip projector, I do know that. I also know that it can resolve up to 4K resolutions. However, the studios master in 4K, but do not release the movies in that resolution.

 

[rmz76]



Quote:
Originally Posted by marchewd /forum/post/15527492


It is a 3-chip projector, I do know that. I also know that it can resolve up to 4K resolutions. However, the studios master in 4K, but do not release the movies in that resolution.

Why would they master in 4k resolution and not release in that resolution? The newer 4k projectors would indicate that may change down the road, eh? I've also heard 1440p is one of the resolutions they use for cinema media. It's interesting that with 1080p, the home media has matched the cinema in terms of media quality.... With all this talk about consumers demanding a price drop of Blu-Ray release, when you consider what they are giving us you can kind of sympathize. Blu-Ray releases should be worth a bit more...

 

[marchewd]

1440P sounds about right for the resolution. When we had our meeting with Barco about six months ago, the sales person wasn't sure on the exact specs, but I remember something about 1440P. They say that 4K is the resolution of 35mm film, which is why they use it to master the films. However, there isn't any equipment around today that can playback 4K material available. I have heard them say that the difference between 2K and 4K is so miniscule that it cannot be seen with the human eye.


My company is a small family owned theatre chain in the midwest. I have seen a dozen digital presentations in movie theatres over the past few years. The other time I was blown away was the first time I saw a properly setup 2K presentation at ShoWest in Las Vegas. Even the 20 screen AMC in Tulsa has a very poor digital presentation. I am really amazed myself, at the time and energy that my company has put into bringing a top notch digital presentation to the movie theatre. We realize that it has to be better than what people can do in their own homes, or attendence will continue to decline.