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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As long as the nation's 1,600 TV broadcasters can piggy-back on the cable systems (due to FCC must-carry rules), they have no incentive to compete with the cable systems by developing a strong OTA transmission alternative.


Cable is highly vulnerable to an OTA DTV attack provided that the broadcasters be free to use COFDM and are not forced to attempt to build one huge tower and deliver only one 8-VSB signal. With COFDM, like the cellphone companies, they can send multiple signals with smaller towers. The 8-VSB/COFDM coverage test results conducted around the world speak for themselves as does the rapid implementation of OTA DTV in Great Britain, Spain and Sweden. The British currently have 15 OTA stations and have well more than 1 million digital STBs sold or given away. The Italians, with COFDM, will be the first to go 100% OTA digital. See: http://63.249.17.65/hdtv/italiannewsrelease.html The Australians are selling COFDM STBs installed in the home for less than $350.


Secret studies and back-room deals conducted by self-interested insiders is no way to set our nation's OTA DTV policies and regulations. There are no simple answers to our dilemma but it appears to me that the FCC, during the past decade, has been more of a hindrance in the spread of HDTV across America than an ally.


We need a viable alternative to cable and DBS in order to assure that HDTV will survive. 8-VSB is not the answer whether you guinea pigs believe it or not. When will NAB and the FCC see the light?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Utne:



Snip

The 8-VSB/COFDM coverage test results conducted around the world speak for themselves as does the rapid implementation of OTA DTV in Great Britain, Spain and Sweden. The British currently have 15 OTA stations and have well more than 1 million digital STBs sold or given away. The Italians, with COFDM, will be the first to go 100% OTA digital. See: http://63.249.17.65/hdtv/italiannewsrelease.html The Australians are selling COFDM STBs installed in the home for less than $350.
Wow, someone was able to give away a million STB's so that people could go from 4 or 5 stations to 15! That clearly shows that COFDM is better 8-VSB. I bet if someone here were to give away STB's you'd have even more people adopting it here. The Aussie STB at $350 doesn't do HD, just SD. So here in the U.S. you can get an RCA DTC-100 for around $450 that does HD and DBS (oh and cable as well), or for around the same price you can get an Dishnetwork Model 6000 with an OTA tuner.


As the Dot Com death spiral shows, the ability to spend someone else's money doesn't tell you anything about the ability to sustain a market.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
"....about the ability to sustain a market."


Does anyone on here believe that OTA DTV, in the US, is sustainable in the present form?


Today, without must-carry rules, broadcasters would all die. The future business plans of broadcasters all assume that that cable systems will pick up all their DTV broadcasts, so, whether or not OTA DTV is successful is no big deal.


That's a sad commentary. Broadcasters around the world have been given the power to grab huge marketshare from DBS and cable companies by their new OTA digital transmissions. In the US, however, they still depend on "mother" cable systems, will not be weaned and want to keep it that way.
 

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This reminds me of people who "predict the future" with the end of the earth. I belive the end of the earth and cilvilization has happened about 25 times that I can recall. Let not play GOD and predict the future as if we (one person) can control everyone else. You know that reminds me that Bob must have a "control" issue here.



What another useless thread. Bob why not contribute in helpful ways in other threads?


Dave



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Watch HDTV!!! Nothing else comes close!
 

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For Bob


M0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000!!!!!!!



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Bruce.in.Cary
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Utne:
Broadcasters around the world have been given the power to grab huge market share from DBS and cable companies by their new OTA digital transmissions. In the US, however, they still depend on "mother" cable systems, will not be weaned and want to keep it that way.
Sorry, this was just too inane a comment to let pass unanswered. Dishnetwork has 500 channels (including PPV, DirecTv has more than 200 (I am not a subscriber so I don't know exactly how many), my cable system in the north suburbs of Chicago has over 200 channels. In the Chicago DMA there are fewer than 10 high power stations. Even if each of these stations multi-cast 4 channels in their COFDM emission, and had perfect coverage so that in any home in the DMA you would not even need an antenna to get all 40 channels that would be available.


Cable still has a 160 channel advantage and if they felt threatened, they'd move to a 1GHz plant and expand to 400 or more channels. DBS has at least that big an advantage.


Joe Sixpack goes to Circuit City and finds that he can get every NFL game played every Sunday on DirecTv, think he's going to care about the 40 possible SD channels? The early adopters that care about HD want HBO-HD, Showtime-HD, the Action Channel Sports Network, Discovery-HD, etc. again, not available OTA. Where do you see this power to grab huge market share? You fail to note that in countries where COFDM has been deployed, there has been little penetration of Cable, a very small number of broadcast channels (4.5 in the UK for example), and even the DBS providers have limited programming (relative to here).


The UK has an annual TV license fee that can be used by the government and providers to pay for the free boxes needed to receive the 15 channels they have OTA. I get 10 channels OTA now with now extra work.


The markets are not even close, so the comparison is meaningless.


/carmi


 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
In a typical metro area, there are five or six free OTA analog channels. Give each the ability to broadcast four additional channels and the number reaches 25 to 30 free OTA channels.


For example, the ABC affiliate picks up ABC, ESPN 1, ESPN 2, Disney and say Discovery.


Then, consumers have the option of paying about $1,000/year to get decent cable services or get free DTV via OTA (plus premium services through smart card decoding and payments).


19.3 Mbps is a fat pipe provided to each DTV broadcaster. Why should it be wasted on the very few who are willing and able to pay (in every sense of the word) the even "fatter" 8-VSB price to receive?


[This message has been edited by Bob Utne (edited 04-08-2001).]
 

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Beta is a superior format to VHS! We really need Beta! I know it seems like Betamax is dead. But maybe I can bring it back!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Consumers killed Divx, are waging a war against DVI/HDCP but are afraid to attack 8-VSB. Doesn't make sense to me....
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Utne:
In a typical metro area, there are five or six free OTA analog channels. Give each the ability to broadcast four additional channels and the number reaches 25 to 30 free OTA channels.


For example, the ABC affiliate picks up ABC, ESPN 1, ESPN 2, Disney and say Discovery.


Then, consumers have the option of paying about $1,000/year to get decent cable services or get free DTV via OTA (plus premium services through smart card decoding and payments).


19.3 Mbps is a fat pipe provided to each DTV broadcaster. Why should it be wasted on the very few who are willing and able to pay (in every sense of the word) the even "fatter" 8-VSB price to receive?


[This message has been edited by Bob Utne (edited 04-08-2001).]
In a COFDM system in 6MHz, you get (as I recall) at most 18Mbs, how do you get 5 channels into 18Mbs given the need for lots of forward error correction?


Do you think that Disney is just going to give away ESPN-1, ESPN-2, The Disney channel and Discovery? I wonder how the Cable companies would respond to that. Who's going to build the national billing system that will be needed by the broadcasters so that they can do subscription services? I guess that you'd need at least 4 different ones as I don't think that Disney would want to share one with Viacom or GE. To get all the channels excluding the premium movie channels on Dishnetwork, you pay $40 a month ($480 a year).


In the Bob Unte world, Disney is going to have 3 pay channels and one free to air one. It costs on minimum $2-3 to send out a bill, so either they will need to aggregate their bill or charge $5-10 a month for their three channels. Now if Disney carries ESPN-1, ESPN-2 and Discovery on their ABC O & O's and can work out a great deal with their affiliates to get them to do the same (do they share the subscription revenue, BTW?), where do I get the Toon Disney? I guess I still need a cable or DBS subscription. Wait, wasn't that what I was trying to avoid?


What is your evidence that 8VSB equipment costs more than COFDM?


/carmi





[This message has been edited by majortom (edited 04-08-2001).]
 

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Quote:
Bob U Said,

In a typical metro area, there are five or six free OTA analog channels. Give each the ability to broadcast four additional channels and the number reaches 25 to 30 free OTA channels……



19.3 Mbps is a fat pipe provided to each DTV broadcaster. Why should it be wasted on the very few who are willing and able to pay (in every sense of the word) the even "fatter" 8-VSB price to receive?

Quote:
In another thread Bob U said,

On a personal note, HDTV is one of my passions and am frustrated as hell that I am unable to receive OTA HDTV.
Well, you can’t have both – which choice do you really mean? That’s the problem with lying (or making stuff up), you gotta remember those lies or you’ll be caught, and you’ve been caught yet again.


You just don’t agree with anything do you? I know you like to stir things up and be an a$$hole but jeez at least be consistent.



------------------

Geof
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Utne:
Consumers killed Divx, are waging a war against DVI/HDCP but are afraid to attack 8-VSB. Doesn't make sense to me....
Sure it does, utne. People like you--greedy, arrogant, ignorant, etc.--were behind Divx and DVI/HDCP.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Utne:
.... five or six free OTA analog channels. Give each the ability to broadcast four additional channels and the number reaches 25 to 30 free OTA channels.....
Hmmmmmmmmmm


5x4=25 ????

6x4=30 ????


What a f#*king moron. Can't even multiply. Must be that 5th grade education.


Typical "if I exagertate a little bit, maybe no one will notice". I remember when my son went through that stage when he was about 8 years old.


Bad place to pull that sh#t moron.


Rick
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by wirehead_rick:
Hmmmmmmmmmm


5x4=25 ????

6x4=30 ????


What a f#*king moron. Can't even multiply. Must be that 5th grade education.


Typical "if I exaggerate a little bit, maybe no one will notice". I remember when my son went through that stage when he was about 8 years old.


Bad place to pull that sh#t moron.


Rick
Actually, his arithmetic works (4 additional channels means 5 total), it's the math that puts 5 high quality broadcast channels into an 18Mbs COFDM stream with FEC that doesn't work.

 

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Did somebody mention DIVX?

Bob, it wasn't just the consumers that help kill DIVX. Could you imagine Best Buy and other big chain retailers helping Circuit City increase their

annual revenue by selling DIVX? No. I say it was Circuit City's own arrogance if not stupidity that killed DIVX. Frankly, DIVX was dead before it ever hit the consumer market.
 
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