[JargonGR]

Normally, I am not the type of person that complains publicly but this is the first time I feel like an idiot for spending my hard earned cash on a product.


As many of you may know last summer Prismasonic had a special promotion for AVS members so they could get their new HD5000 model for a significant discount. Having, read great things about their lenses I proceeded and bought their top of the line model the HD 5000-R for the special price of 2.800 Euros instead of the normal price of 4,400 Euros (with 19% VAT). So far so good but I had not bought a projector yet just the lenses and a 130" 2.40 curved screen (Stewart with Studiotek 130).


Soon afterward (two months) I decided to finally buy a projector and after seeing many I concluded to the Infocus 83 since it has such a great light output (and image) that for my room with bright walls was a fine choice.



An here is the point where my troubles start. When I bought the projector Prismasonic was listing it as "COMPATIBLE" with their HD 5000R (both the IN82/IN83) but that was far from truth! No matter how hard I tried the recessed optics of my IN83 do not allow the lenses to be attached close enough and as a result I get light distortion at the right part of the screen. My dealer has also been surprised since he had checked compatibility.


Also following this post you can see Ansi Lepanen from Prismasonic saying that their new lenses is compatible with IN82/IN83 and this was written before I buy mine. When I e-mailed him about my problem the only thing he had to say (blame) was the recessed optics of IN83.


So finally and because of false information from Prismasonic I was left with a paperweight and decided to move to Schneider. I DID NOT want to sell the projector because I would lose too much money and I need the high light output that IN83 has (next equivalent is quite pricey)


And yet, while I try to sell my HD5000R Prismasonic decided to drop the Price to ridiculously low levels compared to what I paid making me (and other previous owners) look like idiots or sponsors of the company.



I paid 2,800 Euros for the HD 5000R and some other people paid 4000+ (list price) and that was only some months ago? The price now is 1790 Euros!!!!!!


I almost sold this thing to someone at 2,600 (I never used it its brand new) telling him its a good price compared to the list price of 4,400 in my country. Suffice to say that it is now impossible to get any decent price for it and I have actually paid a pile of cash for a product that I am not able to use and will lose a lot more trying to sell it.



Why Prismasonic? What kind of respect is this towards your customers and their hard earned cash?

 

[Jerrym303]

I am curious what your throw ratio is that is not working.


Also, what is the distance form your pj lens to front of the pj case - in other words, how much is the lens recessed?

 

[Mr Ian B]

Can you make some sort of masking along both sides of the lens where it meets the projector to prevent light spillage????


Mr Ian B

 

[tds1]

I can understand being frustrated about the lens not working with your setup, but I don't think you can be too upset on the price. I think that's a known risk with anything, particularly electronic/theater stuff. The plasma I paid $2500 now can be bought for $800. So prices do change...

By the way, how do you like the Schneider lens?

 

[CAVX]

I'm interested in knowing the TR as well as I managed to get a HD5000 to work with a BenQ W2000 at a TR of 2.1:1 (min zoom) where the lens vertex is some 48mm behind the molded surround (focus and zoom rings) on this and the W5000 unit...


Mark

 

[ddnathan]

Can you let me know of (1) your throw ratio and (2) the size of the light (width) when it is entering the Prismasonic Lens? I ordered and waiting for Prismasonic lens and am concerned about the compatibility due to recessed lens. Thank you.

 

[airliner]

@Cavx, wich result did you get with the Benq w5000?

 

[CAVX]



Quote:
Originally Posted by airliner /forum/post/15522635


@Cavx, wich result did you get with the Benq w5000?

Chassie and lens wize, they are virtually identical, so because it works on the W20000, it will work on the W5000...


Mark

 

[airliner]

Tks, Marco

 

[JargonGR]



Quote:
Originally Posted by tds1 /forum/post/15520798


I can understand being frustrated about the lens not working with your setup, but I don't think you can be too upset on the price. I think that's a known risk with anything, particularly electronic/theater stuff. The plasma I paid $2500 now can be bought for $800. So prices do change...

By the way, how do you like the Schneider lens?

I am frustrated because Prismasonic stated compatibility without having actually confirmed it in practice. That and then the silent removal of IN82/IN83 from their compatibility after me being the guinea pig.


And as for the price I understand the large scale production commodities dropping fast (like TVs) but a specialized supposedly premium product like lenses I expected to hold some value longer than 6 months after being introduced. And we are talking a price crush here.


The fact that it dropped so much shows what we pay when we buy from small companies. It is not R&D, not high material costs or any special technology. It is dealer margins (and huge from what it seems) and other thin air.



Nevertheless, had this item been useful to me I would not be so upset about the price drop but have to GET RID of it without even having used it and all because of Prismasonic's faulty compatibility list is another thing all together.




Note: My TR is about 2.0 and I am sure I can not solve the distortion (its like a glare/beam of light) since it gets worse as I move the lenses further away from the IN83 optics and better as the lenses get closer. Unfortunately the chassis of the Infocus prevents the lenses to get as close as it needs to be and at the correct angle.

 

[Jerrym303]

It is not making sense that it would not work at 2.0 unless your lens is recessed over 2".


Any chance you could mention that figure as well?

 

[dr.nop]

like many comment ,for the add on anamorphic lens . The seting up is the main reason to get best picture . The consideration is about offset of lens , throw ratio and throw distance, curve of the screen to effect out of focus both rim.I think you should be consult the professional installer near by you.The prismasonic dealer in my country told me that prismasonic my be incompatible with with infocus IN 81 82 83 due to design of the lens position of the pj

 

[JargonGR]

Jerrym303


Although the PJ optics are about 2" recessed bear in mind that IN83 has a huge offset (25-30%) of the picture so the lens also has to be positioned at about 40 degrees angle. This angle in addition to the distance created by the recessed optics is totaling a more than 8" distance from the upper part of the lenses.

 

[goondog]

to OP:


i had the same issues with mating the IN83 to the prismasonic. My lens was the upgraded 1500FE.

My throw ratio is 2.2. Im shooting onto a 140" wide 2.40 size screen.

After tons of adjustments i got the lens about as close as i could to the recessed lens of the IN83.

I did have some shadowing on either side of the picture but it was acceptable and i have been living with it over the past 6mos.

I talked to prismasonic and although very helpful, didnt have any other ideas.


Another member has removed the LOWER flange of the projector with a dremel and was able to bring the lens much closer. I have wanted to try this but have been too chicken fearing it would void any warranty etc.

But really it is the only way to get the prismasonic housing closer.

Below is a pic of the setup with the shadowing you can see only in brighter scenes.


Good Luck. Wish i had a better fix for you!

 

[Jerrym303]

Wow, that is a challenge. Are there reports of success with other lenses mated to the IN83?


I have been pretty interested in this thread since I have a new, unwrapped HD-5000R that will be mated with a Marantz VP8600. My pj lens is only about 7/8" recessed. I'm not sure how to measure any offset.


Like you, I was a bit miffed at the sudden price drop. As you can see, I consider the pj to be a rapidly depreciating item and went cheap for that reason. I considered the lens to be a solid long-term investment and not something that would depreciate overnight.


Good luck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JargonGR /forum/post/15531039


Jerrym303


Although the PJ optics are about 2" recessed bear in mind that IN83 has a huge offset (25-30%) of the picture so the lens also has to be positioned at about 40 degrees angle. This angle in addition to the distance created by the recessed optics is totaling a more than 8" distance from the upper part of the lenses.

 

[JargonGR]

Like you the I went over the shadowing path too but to me this is unacceptable after having paid 7,300 Euros for the projector+ lenses and especially after having seen it playing flawlessly with a Pioneer Kuro (same as JVC HD100).


And the shadowing was not my only issue I also had some light spilling on the left and right side in addition to a gleam of white (transparent) light on the right side of the screen. The point is that no matter what I tried it always came down to some compromise.


The last solution I thought about was to cut the chassis of the projector but then I could kiss warranty good bye (not to mention a resale).


Normally, I would put some responsibility to my dealer but he was also misled by the Prismasonic compatibility chart and having an excellent relationship with them (and good prices in general) I consider it bad luck. That, plus the fact that I took all the installation process on me without allowing them to intervene. I also went through hell back and forward with the projector base construction (inclined roof, big and rigid plate to hold the lenses - we made two of them).



Soon (maybe this week or next) I will receive the Schneider Cinedigitar with the electric slide and will try my luck with this too. I am afraid that the plate may need some adjustments (drilling or so) for the new lenses but I may be able to do my self since I have a drill press. If that doesn't work either I will well????? Cry????

 

[Alan Gouger]

The Schneider has a very small aperture. Its smaller then the Prismasonic but because Schneider is oval in shape you may have better luck getting its barrel to better adapt to the Infocus. I use the Prismasonic and love it. It worked 100% with the RS2 and 20 I had, no issues.

I can see where there may be an issue with the Infocus do to its steep offset combined with the the lens being reset. I wonder if the information on Prismasonic is inaccurate or they tested it and under certain conditions it works. Are you at your longest or shortest throw distance?

 

[dangc]

I am that other member who had the same problem with the Prismasonic and the IN83 and cut out the lower flange.


The problem is with the front fascia of the IN8x series. The lens is not only recessed but there is also a lip running around the face and it is rounded. Meaning the lip in the middle is farther out than the side where the lens is and therefore moving the lens mounting option even further out from the projector lens.


Prismasonic really should have sent out a notice to buyers about the issue when they discovered the problem when I originally posted it and offered customers a refund.


I believe I was the first person to discover this problem when the FE1500s were being closed out, and the 1500s were even worse. Prismasonic offered to upgrade my optics to the 5000 which helped but I still remained bothered by the shadowing so I decided to cut the lip of the projector off and it has been fine ever since.


I would recommend the Panamorph lens as it is much larger, although I am still not sure it will work. I worry the new lens you are getting may not work unless you can get it right up to the lens due to the shape. The Infocus is really not designed well for an external lens.


Good luck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goondog /forum/post/15534799


to OP:


i had the same issues with mating the IN83 to the prismasonic. My lens was the upgraded 1500FE.

My throw ratio is 2.2. Im shooting onto a 140" wide 2.40 size screen.

After tons of adjustments i got the lens about as close as i could to the recessed lens of the IN83.

I did have some shadowing on either side of the picture but it was acceptable and i have been living with it over the past 6mos.

I talked to prismasonic and although very helpful, didnt have any other ideas.


Another member has removed the LOWER flange of the projector with a dremel and was able to bring the lens much closer. I have wanted to try this but have been too chicken fearing it would void any warranty etc.

But really it is the only way to get the prismasonic housing closer.

Below is a pic of the setup with the shadowing you can see only in brighter scenes.


Good Luck. Wish i had a better fix for you!

 

[JargonGR]

Alan:


According to Projector Central calculator the ratios for this PJ are 1.85-2.22 and I am at 2.1 so I would say towards the max. However, since the plate holding the PJ is custom I have some headroom for adjustment back and forward but it does not make a difference. Nevertheless, I will give the Schneider a try and we will take it from there.


dangc:


Your solution is what I feared the most and unfortunately it is where I am heading too whether I keep the Prismasonic and/or the Schneider!


I also have the option to get rid of the Infocus (only 100 Hours on it) and get another PJ (I like the Sony VW80) and be done with it. But there I have another issue with the light output on my 130 Inch (width) 2.40 screen. As you know "lumens" is the strong point of IN83 and at larger than 100" many other projectors look like candles. Oh well, right now I have spend a damn lot of Euros and I have yet to enjoy a movie in Cinemascope. I am not giving up though!!


Finally, regarding Prismasonic what more can I say?? It's their right to depreciate our products that fast but not their right to mislead me in believing into theoretic compatibility lists.

 

[prismasonic]



Quote:
Originally Posted by JargonGR /forum/post/15518889


An here is the point where my troubles start. When I bought the projector Prismasonic was listing it as "COMPATIBLE" with their HD 5000R (both the IN82/IN83) but that was far from truth! No matter how hard I tried the recessed optics of my IN83 do not allow the lenses to be attached close enough and as a result I get light distortion at the right part of the screen. My dealer has also been surprised since he had checked compatibility.

We knew that there had been compatibility issues with H-1500 series with smaller optics, but in that time we did not know that HD-5000 is not working. We had replaced the HD-5000 prisms with very low price to 2 customers, (most probable to those who has also been writing to this thread), who had issues with FE1500, and after that we supposed that everything was OK, because those customers never informed us anything about the incompatibility?? Unfortunately we cannot test lenses with every projectors, and in that time, around midsummer 2008, there was misleading information in our web, and I'm sorry about this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JargonGR /forum/post/15518889


Also following this post you can see Ansi Lepanen from Prismasonic saying that their new lenses is compatible with IN82/IN83 and this was written before I buy mine. When I e-mailed him about my problem the only thing he had to say (blame) was the recessed optics of IN83.

What else can I say than that the problem is the recessed optics of IN82. It is not only recessed but also slanting + having a great offset. Its design is a total nightmare for the a-lens, and is the only modern projector which is not compatible with HD-5000.


In that time (around half year ago) You did not ask any compensation from us, and if you were asked, it would have to be done via the reseller, from who sold the lens to you. I also wonder why you did not ask the reseller to change either the lens or the projector, when the case was fresh.


It is not fair to read 6 months later how badly we treat our customer, if the customer has never even asked any compensation, or tried to change the product. Moreover, we did not even sell the lens for you, but our reseller, so how we could ever know that you did not manage to return the lens to them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JargonGR /forum/post/15518889


And yet, while I try to sell my HD5000R Prismasonic decided to drop the Price to ridiculously low levels compared to what I paid making me (and other previous owners) look like idiots or sponsors of the company.


I paid 2,800 Euros for the HD 5000R and some other people paid 4000+ (list price) and that was only some months ago? The price now is 1790 Euros!!!!!!


I almost sold this thing to someone at 2,600 (I never used it its brand new) telling him its a good price compared to the list price of 4,400 in my country. Suffice to say that it is now impossible to get any decent price for it and I have actually paid a pile of cash for a product that I am not able to use and will lose a lot more trying to sell it.



Why Prismasonic? What kind of respect is this towards your customers and their hard earned cash?

The price drop is due to world economy. We dropped the country distributors, to whom even the -50% is not enough. The formed end user price just did not match the current world economy at all, and thus we were forced to drop the prices by making the sales chain lighter.


We did not do this price drop by fun. It was only for surviving. I suppose we are not the only company who has dropped the prices. Just check the car prices.. or houses .. You may not have stock investments since compared to the them your loss is pretty small.

Quote:
The fact that it dropped so much shows what we pay when we buy from small companies. It is not R&D, not high material costs or any special technology. It is dealer margins (and huge from what it seems) and other thin air.

I wonder why you suppose that only the LARGE companies have high R&D, high material costs or special technology?? They have nothing to do with the company size. In fact for small company they are much higher, because they do not have the large scale production benefits. For example I cannot challenge the Nokia in making the phones, because one electrical component costs me at least 10 times more than for Nokia.