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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm in the process of getting into HD. I've got a Pioneer Pro1000HD plasma on order. I'll need to upgrade my DirecTV equipment (probably either Sony or new Zenith) to get HD. I'm probably adding Dish to get CBS (6000 receiver), and I don't have a dvd player (not sure which). I do have cable for local channels and my NBC affiliate is digital for OTA. I also want to run non-HD through my Tivo. I may add a scaler (NR) if Pro1000 not sufficient with 4x3. This gets me to needing a new a/v receiver. It seems one with 3 component inputs would be wise. The new Denon 4802 has 3. It says it handles 50mhz. I seem to see in other threads that less than 100mhz will cause picture loss. Any thoughts on adequacy of 50mhz or whether I should just use the Pro1000 multiple inputs to bypass would be appreciated. Finally, how should all this stuff best be hooked up and will any DVD player do (no progressive scan) if I use the TV or NR scalers? This seems like a lot, but before plunking down big bucks, I want to get this right. Thanks. steve
 

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50 is plenty. The Denon uses mechanical type switches to virtually elimate any signal loss.


Most things I have read stated that anythine over 40 is good. It all depends on your TV though, because the apms in your TV probbaly roll off way before 100.


Brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
thanks. I couldn't imagine a company like Denon would promote a product for HD switching which would be much inferior to direct throughput.
 

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I will probably be getting the 2802, and had the same concern. The owner's manual says it handles only 27 MHz, and makes no mention of support for 480p/720p/1080i. However, in the product catalog, it states "2 sets component video inputs, compatible with wideband (480p, 720p, 1080i) response for progressive DVD, DTV"...is the 27MHz capable of supporting 480p/720p/1080i?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Here is the link to a pdf file on the 4802 which does state 50mhz component switching, but does not say HD switching.


Just checked another spot on their site which says "3 sets component video inputs, compatible with wideband (480p, 720p, 1080i) response for progressive DVD, DTV (50 MHz bandwidth)" But looking at the owners manual pdf, only talks about hooking up a DVD player through the component inputs. It also says that the menu system does not output to the monitor through the component out (bummer).

http://www.denon.com/catalog/pdfs/AVR4802.pdf





[This message has been edited by sdf777 (edited 09-26-2001).]
 

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I brought this up in another thread:

Does anyone know if component singals share the same ground? If so then it would seem you only need 4 conductors and since a S-video connector has 4 conductors plus a shield it would seem one could build an adapter of sorts so a typical A/V Rec'r (with only composite and S-video switching) could switch component video signals.


But from talk in this thread, I think I might be missing something. Comments on my idea?
 

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An S-Video cable contains 2 coaxial cables: one for chrominance and one for luminance. The 4 pins on an S-Video connector are connected to the center conductors and the shields of the two coaxial cables. An S-Video switch switches 2 coaxial cables; a component video switch switches 3 coaxial cables.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Signal:
An S-Video cable contains 2 coaxial cables: one for chrominance and one for luminance. The 4 pins on an S-Video connector are connected to the center conductors and the shields of the two coaxial cables. An S-Video switch switches 2 coaxial cables; a component video switch switches 3 coaxial cables.
I thought that might be the case, but if one uses the S-video to switch 2 of the coaxial cables and the Composite video to switch the remaining 1 coaxial cable -- then it would appear, with the help of an adapter box, that a typical A/V Rec'r can switch Component video signals (if you give up you your S-Video and Composite video switching). Is this correct or am I missing something?


 

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STL, that's a clever idea, but I suspect that most receivers are unable to handle the bandwidth of a high definition signal.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Signal:
STL, that's a clever idea, but I suspect that most receivers are unable to handle the bandwidth of a high definition signal.
I think this is the part I'm missing...could you explain this in more detail. The way I see it all the rec'rs are doing is switching a connection via a relay. With the relay just making or breaking a physical connection, I really don't see how bandwidth comes into play much here in a passive switching system like this. Are HD component cables REALLY any different than a typical 75ohm (composite) video cables?


 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Signal STL, that's a clever idea, but I suspect that most receivers are unable to handle the bandwidth of a high definition signal.
Why do you say this? This was my original question about 50mhz and HD signals
 

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I was looking at the Denon 3802 and the Onkyon TX-DS898. THe Onkyo states HD-Compatible component video switching. It's also 50mhz.


You scared my with your concern with <100mhz. I hope that's not the case.


Seems like hooking it up would be the best way to answer your question.
 

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When you switch your receiver to that input, it will try to read/play the audio from the video component. Are you going to use a seperate receiver just for audio?


------------------

-Glenn
 

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Clarification: I suspect that most A/V receivers are unable to handle the bandwidth of high definition signals through their S-Video and composite video connections. My Yamaha HTR-5250 video section (composite and S-Video) frequency response specification is 5 Hz to 10 MHz, -3 dB. My Sony SB-V66S passive A/V selector (composite and S-Video) frequency response specification is 10 MHz +/- 1 dB.


A good quality 75 ohm coaxial cable can be used for composite or component video. I'm not qualified to discuss electromagnetic wave and field theory, but I'll try to give you an idea of what's involved. The cable is part of a transmission line that also includes the connectors and switches. If the electrical properties of the transmission line are not maintained, the signal may be degraded. The electrical properties include, among other things, the characteristic impedance (75 ohms, for example) determined by the distributed inductance and capacitance per unit length.
 

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I read STL's idea on the other thread and still cannot see anyone answer re the switching. IOW, while stray capacitance and mild impedance mismatch would be present, why could you not couple vis splitting out the two channels on SV-id and using the corresponding composite for the 3rd channel of YPbPr.

I am intrested in this as a temporary fix as I brought up in another unanswered thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/016504.html


In answer to Glenn_L, the audi info, DD or two channel, would still reside with the corresponding chosen receiver input(TV,SAT,DVD,or whatever the receiver has assigned to that bank of inputs(2ch audio,Toslink/coax DD,Svid,composite), thus using audio(DD or 2ch) and SVID(splitting and switching two of the independent coax of the 3 component) and composite(3rd channel of component coax). http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif :


WILL THIS WORK? What is the,other than the obvious need for junction cabling(preferably in shielded box), downside?


Thanks Bill


------------------

Cranial Nerve II With control by III, IV, and VI
 

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Hello Bill, I was just getting ready to find that old thread and post a link to this one for you to follow. I'm glad you found this thread, and if you try this please let me know how it turns out!
 

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My Panasonic 42 plasma should be arriving next week and I'm shopping for a good component switcher as well. Like you, I'm leaning towards the 4802, but also have the same concern about hooking in my Tivo to get programming.


I'll be using my Digial box from Time-Warner for local programming (basic service) and a DirecTV hookup for HD and premium programming. I may later experiment with OTA HD programming.


I think we have very similar problems in that we need to figure out low-loss switching and a hookup scheme.


My feeling is that I should be able to hook in an svideo line output from the 4802 to the Tivo and component hookups to the DVD and monitor. The inputs would be svideo from the TW cable box and component from the DirecTV box.


The problem I see for both of our setups will be controlling the input to Tivo in a way that allows you to automatically time-shift both terrestrial and satellite programming. My sense is that is just isn't possible to do this with the equipment discussed here. I'd love it if someone would prove me wrong.


edit: complicating things even more, I'm interested in hooking in an XBox when they are generally available.


--Karl


[This message has been edited by Major Astro (edited 09-29-2001).]
 

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I've got a Harman/Kardon AVR-510 receiver for my HT. It has component switching for two devices. I've used my General Instruments HDD-201 HD decoder and Panasonic RP91 DVD player through it without any picture quality loss in either 1080i or 480p. I have not tried 720p (no 720p source material here yet) but it should work fine for this.


-- Robert
 
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