[kq6ea]

Greetings, all....

I've got my Plextor TV402U up and running to my satisfaction, but since I'm recording out of the S-Video jack on my Samsung T160 D* box, I'm not really satisfied with the PQ. Spoiled by HDTV, I guess!

Anybody know of a relatively inexpensive (
Thanks, Jim

 

[Xayd]

there are lots of other threads on this but no they do not, and nor will they likely ever.


once an HD stream is converted to analog it occupies far more bandwidth than a 32 bit PCI bus can handle.

 

[kq6ea]

That's interesting. Pinnacle sells a unit that runs on USB that will do it, but I can't find any mention of Linux support.

 

[Rgb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xayd there are lots of other threads on this but no they do not, and nor will they likely ever. once an HD stream is converted to analog it occupies far more bandwidth than a 32 bit PCI bus can handle.

Never say never.


I suspect that PCI, PCI Express, USB 2.0, and/or Firewire analog component capture devices will surface wihtin the next 3-5 years for well under $1000.


They will keep the PC bus bandwidth manageable by doing the A/D conversion and video compression (MPEG2/WMV9/MPEG4) in hardware chips on the capture card. That way, the MPEG2/4 stream can be piped over the USB/Firewire/PCI bus at realistic bit rates.

 

[Rgb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq6ea Greetings, all.... I've got my Plextor TV402U up and running to my satisfaction, but since I'm recording out of the S-Video jack on my Samsung T160 D* box, I'm not really satisfied with the PQ. Spoiled by HDTV, I guess! Thanks, Jim

I assume your intent is to capture and record HD (720p/1080i) analog component and not simply 480i or 480p analog component? I ask because I wouldn't think there is a big difference in video quality between 480i analog component and Svideo, which is always 480i also.


For archiving, you could post process the recorded Svideo to deinterlace to 480p, to double the vertical resolution, at least.


If your intent is to capture satellite HD signals, the simplest way are to get a PC based ATSC/QAM recorder card, plus find a DISH 5000 receiver and ATSC modulator on ebay, which outputs standard ATSC from any tuned satellite HD channel. You would then record this output with a myHD type card.

 

[kq6ea]

I have a pcHDTV card, which I *think* does QAM now. I suppose I could get something which converts the component output to "Channel 3" and feed it to the card. I was just looking for something simple that would allow me to digitize the component out of my DirecTV receiver.

I never considered de-interlacing the S-Video capture that I can do now. I'll give it a try.

 

[scowl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq6ea I suppose I could get something which converts the component output to "Channel 3" and feed it to the card.

Let us know when you find a HDTV component to "Channel 3" converter.

 

[Xayd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rgb Never say never. I suspect that PCI, PCI Express, USB 2.0, and/or Firewire analog component capture devices will surface wihtin the next 3-5 years for well under $1000. They will keep the PC bus bandwidth manageable by doing the A/D conversion and video compression (MPEG2/WMV9/MPEG4) in hardware chips on the capture card. That way, the MPEG2/4 stream can be piped over the USB/Firewire/PCI bus at realistic bit rates.

i'm hoping that the DRM insanity coming out of hollywood and the cable broadcasters will create the demand for it, i suppose we'll just have to wait and see if anyone actually makes the hardware.

 

[afalzone]

"If your intent is to capture satellite HD signals, the simplest way are to get a PC based ATSC/QAM recorder card, plus find a DISH 5000 receiver and ATSC modulator on ebay, which outputs standard ATSC from any tuned satellite HD channel. You would then record this output with a myHD type card. "


Not sure that I understand your post. Is not the HD stuff coming over satellite QAM encrypted? What does an ATSC modulator card do? Could you do something similar with a digital cable box?

 

[kq6ea]

My original post was meant to question if there was some way to capture the component output signal, not necessarally to capture HD. I was assuming, possibly wrongly, that using the component output would give me a higher quality than using the S-Video output.

Rgb pretty much answered that, so I guess I'll just drop the matter.

 

[afalzone]

Component is component. I would think that it would take the same bandwitch to capture a crappy picture as it would a high def one.

 

[CityK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by afalzone Is not the HD stuff coming over satellite QAM encrypted?

1 - QAM is a modulation scheme, it has nothing to do with encryption

2 - Satellite transmissions usually employ QPSK or 8psk modulation schemes...most HD transmissions are 8psk nowadays

Quote:

What does an ATSC modulator card do?

Takes the transport stream the STB's demodulator has retrieved and places that signal onto an RF carrier via 8vsb modulation (i.e. it creates an ATSC signal)

Quote:

Could you do something similar with a digital cable box?

The hardware mentioned by rgb is specific to the particular stb.


That being said, there is certainly nothing technically preventing any manufacturer from doing something similar for other applications......although there are a whole host of legal and economic reasons which may stand in the way (i.e. lost revenues arguments).

 

[stanger89]

Quote:

Originally Posted by afalzone Component is component. I would think that it would take the same bandwitch to capture a crappy picture as it would a high def one.

Oh not nearly, component can cary a wide variety of resolutions, timing, qualities etc, from SD (480i) to HD 1080i/720p. SD (crappy) component is 480i or roughly 250Mbps, HD component on the other hand is much higher, 1080i and roughly 1.5Gbps, HD is 6x the data vs SD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rgb Never say never.

I agree, it was said Cablecard on the PC would never happen either. However...

Quote:

I suspect that PCI, PCI Express, USB 2.0, and/or Firewire analog component capture devices will surface wihtin the next 3-5 years for well under $1000. They will keep the PC bus bandwidth manageable by doing the A/D conversion and video compression (MPEG2/WMV9/MPEG4) in hardware chips on the capture card. That way, the MPEG2/4 stream can be piped over the USB/Firewire/PCI bus at realistic bit rates.

I would be rather surprised if this happens, why? Because the resources to compress HD are MASSIVE, and consumers don't get HD in an uncompressed form, all HD available to consumers comes as a compressed digital datastream. As such, there is no "legitimate"* need for something to take uncompressed HD and realtime compress it. Conversely, with SD material, much of it is sent uncompressed to the consumer (SD cable, OTA NTSC, home movies, etc), as such there are completely legitmate uses and needs for such a device, and there seems to be no push to create a cheap, consumer hardware HD encoder.


*by legitimate I mean "no other way". It's like this, we're already allowed to record digital bitstreams via cable DVRs, satellite DVRs, ATSC/QAM capture cards. Basically the only reason for an "HD Component Capture Card" is to capture stuff the content owners don't want us to capture in a way they don't want it captured (unprotected). It sucks, I know, and I (personally) think recording the HD componente outputs is completely legitimate, unfortunately, I'm not making the calls.


The future of digital/HD recording on the PC is going to be direct capture of the datastream (like we do with ATSC and clear QAM), but with DRM attached for the "protected stuff", ie encrypted digital cable/satellite.

 

[STI_FFY]

I have tried a few different ways to tell you of a link to a capture card, but my post count is too small and th forum won't let me - even if I break up the URL into small pieces.


Anyway, the card is a powermax blackmagic decklink. It is very expensive, but sounds as though it would do the trick.

 

[STI_FFY]

If I post just two more times, I can send the link.

 

[STI_FFY]

This last one, and then I should be able to post a proper link.

 

[STI_FFY]

 HDTV component video capture


But now that I read it more carefully, I suspect it is not what I thought it was.


Those component connectors are monitor outputs, and it only connects to decks.


Bummer. Sorry for the bandwith waste...

 

[stanger89]

They're SDI connectors, you need an HD-Component to HD-SDI converter to use that card.


Plus there's the fact that there's no good application support for it.

 

[STI_FFY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanger89 They're SDI connectors, you need an HD-Component to HD-SDI converter to use that card.

Check this manual on page 28. It appears that their "decklink extreme" has HD component input ... and a whole lot more.


As for applications, page 20 suggests that Adobe Premier Pro will work with this card.


I'm sure this is outrageously expensive, but HD component capture seems at least achievable.


Then again, it may be only capable of capturing SD over those inputs, I really can't tell from what I've read there - I can't get past all those acronyms.

 

[stanger89]

Quote:

Originally Posted by STI_FFY Check this manual on page 28. It appears that their "decklink extreme" has HD component input ... and a whole lot more.

Cool, but only solves one of the many problems with capturing raw HD.

Quote:

As for applications, page 20 suggests that Adobe Premier Pro will work with this card.

While an excellent video editing app, would you really want to you Premier on an HTPC? How do you control it with remote? How do you schedule recordings?

Quote:

I'm sure this is outrageously expensive, but HD component capture seems at least achievable.

Nobody has said it was impossible (after all it has to be done somewhere), what we've said it that it is totally impractical for an HTPC.

Quote:

Then again, it may be only capable of capturing SD over those inputs, I really can't tell from what I've read there - I can't get past all those acronyms.

It can, but it won't help:
Quote:

Uncompressed 10 bit YUV (4:2:2) Standard Definition Frame Size MB per second MB per minute GB per hour 720x486/29.97fps 27 1 600 94 720x576/25fps 26 1 582 93 High Definition Frame Size MB per second MB per minute GB per hour 1280x720p/60fps 141 8 438 494 1920x1080/24PsF 127 7 594 445 1920x1080/50i 132 7 910 463 1920x1080/60i 158 9 482 556

Note it requires over about 500GB/hour for 720p or 1080i and a 133MHz PCI-X slot for HD capture.


Heck if I got a PCI-X motherboard, I could record about 3.5 hours of HD on my 1.75TB RAID array.