AVS Forum banner
1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
885 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been looking 1080p cinema projectors, and am starting to question their ability to handle computer input through the HDMI input. I've read the manuals for several, and I don't see a "game" or "straight-thru" mode to turn the video processing off, so the output is not blurred. Most flat panel TVs have this now. I've also heard about sync problems with these projectors and PCs. Based on the projector manuals, it appears the manufacturers still think we are all using analog VGA ports. I have a HT PC, and am not interested in VGA - that's ridiculous.


I'm looking for a 1080p projectors with single pixel addressability just like a computer monitor.


Thanks!


Michael
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
20,735 Posts
Do you need to turn video processing off for temporal reasons, or only spatial ones? Because most any 1080p projectors will be fine spatially if you feed 1080i/p in compared to TVs which usually overscan by default.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
i have used both the mitshibuishi hc5000 and hc6500 and have it hooked through my gamerig, htpc, ps3 and xbox and the image is superb, there isnt a dedicated game mode, but the sharpness cannot be beaten.

it is pretty much pixel perfect and performance is on a par with my dedicated lg 1920x1200 26 " monitor.


I do renember that some of the panasonic projectors do have a dedicated game setting, think it was on the ax200 up, but dont quote me on that
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,131 Posts
Yeah, all the projectors I had (Tosh MT700, Infocus IN76, BenQ W5000, Planar 8150*) all will display 1:1 pixel mapping, which means perfect text from a PC.


*I haven't actually hooked a PC up to my Planar since I decommissioned my HTPC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,361 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael2000 /forum/post/17037140


I've been looking 1080p cinema projectors, and am starting to question their ability to handle computer input through the HDMI input. I've read the manuals for several, and I don't see a "game" or "straight-thru" mode to turn the video processing off, so the output is not blurred.

Why would a non-game mode result in blurring? Do you mean you want scaling/overscan to be turned off? As in 1:1 pixel mapping? AFAIK this should be possible with most (if not all) 1080p projectors. Some DVD players can be switched to RGB output. So to the projector your computer should not look much different than a DVD player (which is set to RGB output). Personally, I've my HTPC connected to my Sony HW10 and it works just fine. 1:1 pixel mapping. No blurring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael2000 /forum/post/17037140


I've also heard about sync problems with these projectors and PCs.

Setting up HTPCs properly can be a nightmare, especially because proper sync depends on which audio/video decoders and renderers you are using. But if you configure the HTPC carefully and correctly, there's nothing that stops you from getting a good result with no sync issues.


One thing I've read recently is that some projectors lose half of the chroma information if you feed them with RGB (instead of YCbCr). I'm not sure which projectors are affected. Fortunately Sony projectors don't seem to suffer from this problem...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
885 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi /forum/post/17045468


Why would a non-game mode result in blurring? Do you mean you want scaling/overscan to be turned off? As in 1:1 pixel mapping? AFAIK this should be possible with most (if not all) 1080p projectors. Some DVD players can be switched to RGB output. So to the projector your computer should not look much different than a DVD player (which is set to RGB output). Personally, I've my HTPC connected to my Sony HW10 and it works just fine. 1:1 pixel mapping. No blurring.

I'm just assuming that the Game Mode is turning off video processing which may result in blurring. The video processing often employs noise reduction, which can blur. Also there is a sharpness setting, and coming from a computer, that makes no sense at all to me. If you set it to zero, will it blur the pixels, and if set to maximum, will it go into overshoot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi /forum/post/17045468


Setting up HTPCs properly can be a nightmare, especially because proper sync depends on which audio/video decoders and renderers you are using. But if you configure the HTPC carefully and correctly, there's nothing that stops you from getting a good result with no sync issues.

If you are just taking the video out of the HTPC and putting it into the projector's HDMI port, and the sound coming out of the sound card is going into the audio amplier, how is good sync obtained? Am I correct that a flat panel TV automatically corrects for this (by taking the sound out of the TV)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi /forum/post/17045468


One thing I've read recently is that some projectors lose half of the chroma information if you feed them with RGB (instead of YCbCr). I'm not sure which projectors are affected. Fortunately Sony projectors don't seem to suffer from this problem...

Fortunately, I will be using the HDMI port.


I really appreciate everyone's response and help here.


Michael
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,131 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael2000 /forum/post/17055203


I'm just assuming that the Game Mode is turning off video processing which may result in blurring. The video processing often employs noise reduction, which can blur. Also there is a sharpness setting, and coming from a computer, that makes no sense at all to me. If you set it to zero, will it blur the pixels, and if set to maximum, will it go into overshoot?

As far as clarity, "pixel mapping" is usually controlled by an aspect ratio mode or an overscan setting.


For example my Planar (and my BenQ, don't remember about the others for sure) had settings for Overscan, either On/Off or a range with one of them being off. This is usually the primary culprit when it comes to bluring. The display takes the perfect input and then zooms/crops the edges slightly and then stretches it to fit. This is "OK" with video and sometimes desirable to get rid of the garbage often around the edges, but it's horrible with PC text.


They've also got a Through or Native aspect ratio mode that doesn't do any stretching/squishing.

Quote:
If you are just taking the video out of the HTPC and putting it into the projector's HDMI port, and the sound coming out of the sound card is going into the audio amplier, how is good sync obtained?

Generally your SSP has a delay setting that can compensate for video processing delays in the display. But I've never actually found the need to use that.

Quote:
Am I correct that a flat panel TV automatically corrects for this (by taking the sound out of the TV)?

Not really, you usually don't run the audio back out of the TV to the SSP. Either you run them separately, or you run both to the SSP and then pass the video to the display.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,361 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael2000 /forum/post/17055203


I'm just assuming that the Game Mode is turning off video processing which may result in blurring. The video processing often employs noise reduction, which can blur. Also there is a sharpness setting, and coming from a computer, that makes no sense at all to me.

With my Sony HW10 I have to set sharpness to 0 and noise reduction off. Easy enough to do, though. With these things turned off, the computer signal seems to be displayed unmolested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael2000 /forum/post/17055203


Fortunately, I will be using the HDMI port.

So what? HDMI supports both YCbCr and RGB. What I said is still valid.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
885 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi /forum/post/17055665


So what? HDMI supports both YCbCr and RGB. What I said is still valid.

I guess I'm old fashioned. When someone starts talking about RGB or YCbCr, I automatically think of that as analog, not digital.


Michael
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,361 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael2000 /forum/post/17058075


I guess I'm old fashioned. When someone starts talking about RGB or YCbCr, I automatically think of that as analog, not digital.

I understand. But as a matter of fact, HDMI supports the following formats:


(1) 8bit RGB 4:4:4

(2) 8bit YCbCr 4:4:4

(3) 8/10/12bit YCbCr 4:2:2


HDMI 1.3 adds higher bitdepth RGB and YCbCr formats (e.g. 12bit RGB 4:4:4 and 12bit YCbCr 4:4:4). So as you can see, HDMI is all about RGB and YCbCr.


BTW, when talking about analog connection the correct name would be "YPbPr". The name "YCbCr" is supposed to be used for digital connection, only. That's a bit like splitting hairs, though...
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top