It's looks like the cause is being compounded by the feed and poor calibration - meaning that color/saturation may be too high. Panny's do not look like this. So the best I can attribute is that you got locked into an unlucky streak.
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Ooh, ooh, I think I can finally answer a question here. 
They have the Panny in "Vivid" mode. Panasonic's "Vivid" mode is horrid. Ask to use the remote and click the Menu button... then, use the arrow buttons to choose Pic. Mode, I bet it is set to "Vivid". Scroll left or right OFF of "Vivid" and pick "Standard" ("Cinema" looks good at home but is too low contrast for viewing in brightly lit stores). You can also do the adjustments from the panel. Open the little door at the bottom and use the Menu button there.
They have the Panny in "Vivid" mode. Panasonic's "Vivid" mode is horrid. Ask to use the remote and click the Menu button... then, use the arrow buttons to choose Pic. Mode, I bet it is set to "Vivid". Scroll left or right OFF of "Vivid" and pick "Standard" ("Cinema" looks good at home but is too low contrast for viewing in brightly lit stores). You can also do the adjustments from the panel. Open the little door at the bottom and use the Menu button there.Quote:
Kmarsh is right, the Vivid mode has a lot to do with it. The sharpness in Vivid Mode is what really causes the problem. The out-of-the-box default settings for the Panasonics are Vivid Mode with sharpness at +17. This looks good in a brightly lit store from 20' away or more, but close up it looks like crap.
Like you, I saw this in several stores and it worried me but I finally got hold of a remote at CC, made some adjustments and the problem went away before my eyes. I now own one and can say that properly adjusted, there's no sign of 'clay face'.
On Vivid Mode the center point for the sharpness is higher than Normal Mode, making +17 in Vivid about the same as +30 in Standard Mode. Either turn the sharpness to -15 in Vivid Mode or switch to Standard Mode with the sharpness at 0 and the problem should disappear.
| Originally Posted by kmarsh Ooh, ooh, I think I can finally answer a question here. They have the Panny in "Vivid" mode. Panasonic's "Vivid" mode is horrid. Ask to use the remote and click the Menu button... then, use the arrow buttons to choose Pic. Mode, I bet it is set to "Vivid". Scroll left or right OFF of "Vivid" and pick "Standard" ("Cinema" looks good at home but is too low contrast for viewing in brightly lit stores). You can also do the adjustments from the panel. Open the little door at the bottom and use the Menu button there. |
Like you, I saw this in several stores and it worried me but I finally got hold of a remote at CC, made some adjustments and the problem went away before my eyes. I now own one and can say that properly adjusted, there's no sign of 'clay face'.
On Vivid Mode the center point for the sharpness is higher than Normal Mode, making +17 in Vivid about the same as +30 in Standard Mode. Either turn the sharpness to -15 in Vivid Mode or switch to Standard Mode with the sharpness at 0 and the problem should disappear.
Could be that most places that are running low on Panasonic plasmas may be messing with the settings to make them look bad First rule of sales is to sell what you got, and what you don't have either doesn't exist or is inferior to what you have to sell One of the reasons I liked Panasonics is the fact that clay face is non-existent on these panels. I have seen it on many other panels, particularly Samsungs. I always though clay face was a function of the bit depth of the video processor being too low, 12 bit vs 10 bit for example. In something complex like the gradients of the human face, which our brains are highly attuned at recognizing small details for obvious reasons, we see the harsh gradients and perceive it as "clay face". The Panasonics have some of the highest bit depth there is in the plasmas and can display up to 8 Billion colors so it must be bad settings to bring out this effect.
-Jerry C.
First rule of sales is to sell what you got, and what you don't have either doesn't exist or is inferior to what you have to sell One of the reasons I liked Panasonics is the fact that clay face is non-existent on these panels. I have seen it on many other panels, particularly Samsungs. I always though clay face was a function of the bit depth of the video processor being too low, 12 bit vs 10 bit for example. In something complex like the gradients of the human face, which our brains are highly attuned at recognizing small details for obvious reasons, we see the harsh gradients and perceive it as "clay face". The Panasonics have some of the highest bit depth there is in the plasmas and can display up to 8 Billion colors so it must be bad settings to bring out this effect.-Jerry C.
I had the 50PX500U for over a week in my home and saw the same thing and when going into the menu to go less than Vivid and the suggested settings the panel looked rather dull/dim especially in daylight compared to my LCD FP's. If you go straight from a CRT it may not be noticeable since the Panny had the same view as a CRT only a large rectangle with the same reflective nature. Try owning two non-reflective 16:9 panels with full daytime brightness even in a sunny room and then go back to this panel and it becomes hideous seeing everything reflected in the panel or the Sun washing it out.
It has a brightness at night time with no lights on to reflect in the panel but daylight could not match an LCD. Sorry but after being used to an LCD FP during daytime with natural brightness and colors the Plasma couldn't match up and it's history and I also saw what I would call feathered/stair step edges exactly what you displayed in the photo on the right anytime the HD broadcast was sent as 4:3.
I guess they should provide a disclaimer that a $300 ISF Calibration is required to get rid of the dirty whites and the edge issues pointed out above. In many cases I've seen the same broadcasts in 3 versions in my home, SXRD - Panny 500U and then Sharp - the Panasonic had terrible whites that looked like the loser in a Tide commercial and the same event was replicated viewing the Panny on every one in store. For impact the SXRD simply blew away the Panny 50" with HD Movies - I viewed them in my home for 7-10 days not just in the store for a few minutes/hours. My 45" Sharp simply beats the Panny in everything but size and I'll gladly take all the other positives in my sunny room any day over restricting my viewing to nighttime or blocking my 12' arched windows during the day.
I guess if you've viewed a CRT all your life and didn't own a non-reflective screen you may not notice this but when you've had two in your home and then you make this 50" your HT it's unacceptable compared to LCD FP or a non-reflective SXRD unless one perhaps has no windows or is in a cave or basement HT perhaps. Just giving balance as this panel has enough fans that fail to mention any flaws to potential buyers as if they don't exist? No such thing in any panel - the Holy Grail of HT is yet to be found and certainly isn't in the Panny unless you build the viewing environment to meet it's needs to perform.
It has a brightness at night time with no lights on to reflect in the panel but daylight could not match an LCD. Sorry but after being used to an LCD FP during daytime with natural brightness and colors the Plasma couldn't match up and it's history and I also saw what I would call feathered/stair step edges exactly what you displayed in the photo on the right anytime the HD broadcast was sent as 4:3.
I guess they should provide a disclaimer that a $300 ISF Calibration is required to get rid of the dirty whites and the edge issues pointed out above. In many cases I've seen the same broadcasts in 3 versions in my home, SXRD - Panny 500U and then Sharp - the Panasonic had terrible whites that looked like the loser in a Tide commercial and the same event was replicated viewing the Panny on every one in store. For impact the SXRD simply blew away the Panny 50" with HD Movies - I viewed them in my home for 7-10 days not just in the store for a few minutes/hours. My 45" Sharp simply beats the Panny in everything but size and I'll gladly take all the other positives in my sunny room any day over restricting my viewing to nighttime or blocking my 12' arched windows during the day.
I guess if you've viewed a CRT all your life and didn't own a non-reflective screen you may not notice this but when you've had two in your home and then you make this 50" your HT it's unacceptable compared to LCD FP or a non-reflective SXRD unless one perhaps has no windows or is in a cave or basement HT perhaps. Just giving balance as this panel has enough fans that fail to mention any flaws to potential buyers as if they don't exist? No such thing in any panel - the Holy Grail of HT is yet to be found and certainly isn't in the Panny unless you build the viewing environment to meet it's needs to perform.
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I see "no evidence" of clay-face on my 50PX50U, instead HD content is incredibly detailed and life-like. Perhaps too detailed sometimes... like when I can see the veins of Desperate Housewives, Teri Hatcher, bulging on her forehead.
| Originally Posted by Joe_R I saw the 42" and 50" Panny's at at least 4 different stores. They all exhibited a trait which I equate to claymation... Most of the time the Panny was nice. But lots of times it would exhibit this triat. Again, this showed up on all the sets I looked at in 4 different stores. One could content the feed, but there were parts that looked fantastic too. So I think this can be ruled out. |
I think it's time we created a new forum. How about "The Dirty Panasonic Whites and How Much More I Like LCD " Forum.
The forum will of course be sponsored by "Sharp."
That way anyone who might have a Pavlovian response of cutting and pasting his rant whenever the word "Panasonic" comes up can luxuriate in doing so, and we don't have to deal with the rant inserted randomly and irrelevantly into threads here.
....just a thought....
The forum will of course be sponsored by "Sharp."
That way anyone who might have a Pavlovian response of cutting and pasting his rant whenever the word "Panasonic" comes up can luxuriate in doing so, and we don't have to deal with the rant inserted randomly and irrelevantly into threads here.
....just a thought....
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Of course this is typical Wes over-exaggeration. In FACT, almost any comparison in any reputable high end video publication will point out the fact that plasma has more accurate color reproduction than LCD. I hate when facts are misrepresented! Secondly, Wes has a problem understanding that many people DO watch with the light down or off and thus LCD is a poor choice for them. The fact is that the overwhelmingly vast majority of plasma owners on AVS never complain about the 'hideous' reflections that Wes talks about endlessly.
And, lastly, a "$300 ISF Calibration" is NOT required to get rid of the 'dirty whites' and the 'edge issues' that were mentioned. A simple understanding and adjusment of user controls will make for a gorgeous picture by most standards. Spewing out this kind of mis-information doesn't do anybody any good and tends to steer people away from a choice that may well be the best for them.
As always, use your eyes to determine the best technology for you.
| Originally Posted by westa6969 Sorry but after being used to an LCD FP during daytime with natural brightness and colors the Plasma couldn't match up and it's history and I also saw what I would call feathered/stair step edges exactly what you displayed in the photo on the right anytime the HD broadcast was sent as 4:3. I guess they should provide a disclaimer that a $300 ISF Calibration is required to get rid of the dirty whites and the edge issues pointed out above. |
In FACT, almost any comparison in any reputable high end video publication will point out the fact that plasma has more accurate color reproduction than LCD. I hate when facts are misrepresented! Secondly, Wes has a problem understanding that many people DO watch with the light down or off and thus LCD is a poor choice for them. The fact is that the overwhelmingly vast majority of plasma owners on AVS never complain about the 'hideous' reflections that Wes talks about endlessly.And, lastly, a "$300 ISF Calibration" is NOT required to get rid of the 'dirty whites' and the 'edge issues' that were mentioned. A simple understanding and adjusment of user controls will make for a gorgeous picture by most standards. Spewing out this kind of mis-information doesn't do anybody any good and tends to steer people away from a choice that may well be the best for them.
As always, use your eyes to determine the best technology for you.
As always, use your eyes to determine the best technology for you.[/quote]
I did that's why I returned the panasonic for the sony xbr
I did that's why I returned the panasonic for the sony xbr
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