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Confirmed: Pioneer Elite 8x and XA2 Color Tearing/Artifacts w/1080P HDMI output

4953 Views 73 Replies 21 Participants Last post by John Haghighi, May 18, 2007

John Haghighi

Discussion Starter · May 10, 2007

I am going to post several screen shots of the XA2 set to output 1080p which shows signs of tearing, when switched to 1080i, allowing the display to handle the conversion, the tearing is gone. At first I thought this was only the case with standard DVDs upconverted to 1080p, but I soon found this was the case for the same title in HD DVD format as well.

I have only tested Batman Begins, this is a new XA2 player received with 1.5 firmware. It is connected to a Pioneer Elite 84 with the latest firmware via HDMI.

UPDATE SUMMARY OF ISSUE- 5/17/07

1. Pioneer 84 and Toshiba XA2 HD DVD player set to output 1080p over HDMI with latest firmware for both devices (5/9/07) causes problematic picture

2. Artifacts of blue and magenta flickering pixels and streaking appear after receiver is on for 10 min. Picture is perfect when receiver is started cold, artifacts seem to appear after 10-15 min. Don't even need to watch a movie to see this issue, can see it in the XA2 setup menu, but has been confirmed with different titles.

3. When setting the resolution to 1080i on the Toshiba XA2 and passing HDMI through the 84 the picture is perfect, no issues at all

4. When setting the resolution to 1080p and bypassing the 84, plugging directly into the 1080P HDMI TV, the picture is perfect, no artifacts at all.

5. PS3 Blu-ray set to output 1080p over HDMI passing thru the 84 has no artifact issues at all, picture is perfect.

6. Issue has been duplicated by several Pioneer 8x owners, some do NOT have the issue, BUILD DATE or FIRMWARE NOT a factor

RESOLUTION

HDMI Board was replaced by Pioneer, 1080P works fine now on XA2

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1 - 20 of 74 Posts

John Haghighi

Discussion Starter · #2 · May 10, 2007

The attached screen shots have the XA2 set to output 1080i, same scenes, no tearing....

So what does this indicate?

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Dahl77

· #3 · May 10, 2007

That's not tearing is it?

John Haghighi

Discussion Starter · #4 · May 10, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahl77 /forum/post/0

That's not tearing is it?

Tearing probably isn't the right term, it looks more like posterization artifacts, whatever it is it looks much worse when it's playing and not paused.

youknowryan

· #5 · May 10, 2007

swap the player, this is the first i've heard of this.

John Haghighi

Discussion Starter · #6 · May 10, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by youknowryan /forum/post/0

swap the player, this is the first i've heard of this.

I am not entirely convinced it is the player yet ...need to test more titles...

aaronwt

· #7 · May 10, 2007

Try a different cable.

martijua

· #8 · May 10, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Haghighi /forum/post/0

Confirmed:XA2 Color Tearing/Artifacts w/ 1080P output

I am not entirely convinced it is the player yet ...need to test more titles...

If you are not convinced, how can it be "confirmed" ?

aaronwt

· #9 · May 10, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by martijua /forum/post/0

If you are not convinced, how can it be "confirmed" ?

Besides, how do we know it's not the cable or the display? Are there other 1080P sources that don't exhibit this effect?

Dahl77

· #10 · May 10, 2007

I have actually experienced the same thing on my XE1 unit, these so called posterization artifacts. I run my player through my onkyo 674 receiver to my ax100 projector. When they occured I press the picture mode button on my ax100 remote to reinitialize the picture and they went away instantly. I think it might be a HDMI handshake problem or something as I have also once seen it on my panasonic S97 player. After resetting my onkyo receiver and setting it up again the posterization artifacts have not occured again.

Honey1

· #11 · May 10, 2007

I have never seen that with my XA2. It's connected with HDMI to a Denon, itself connected to the Mit. 5000.

John Haghighi

Discussion Starter · #12 · May 10, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt /forum/post/0

Besides, how do we know it's not the cable or the display? Are there other 1080P sources that don't exhibit this effect?

Not the cable, not the display. I believe it is the Handshake between the XA2 and the Pioneer Elite 84. I tried plugging in the XA2 directly to the XBR2, and set at 1080P and there were no issues at all.

The Elite is an HDMI 1.2a receiver, while the Toshiba is 1.3, it seems to me this is a handshake issue as suggest. Such a shame, now the question is who takes responsibility for an update?

HDMI sucks. Here is an even better picture of magenta specs all over the picture, this appears throughout playback.

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JOHNnDENVER

· #13 · May 10, 2007

Use 1080i, be happy.

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rr6966

· #14 · May 10, 2007

I have to agree HDMI with HDCP definitely does sucks at times. I enjoy the video and audio on one cable thing but I'm not sure it is worth it with all the handshake problems out there.

dponeill

· #15 · May 10, 2007

I get the same thing with my HDA1 and Pioneer VSX82. The dots are either Redish-orange or blue, depending on the background color. It does not happen with all movies, but when it does it is repeatable. I asked about this when I called to get authorization for the firmware update and was told that they were not aware of any problem like this.

John Haghighi

Discussion Starter · #16 · May 10, 2007

I hear you, I have brought this to the direct attention of a Pioneer engineer who helped get the first firmware update out there. I don't know if or when this will be fixed. I also updated Toshiba about the issue.

It is strange because the PS3 has been flawless at 1080P with the Pioneer...

Paul Arnette

· #17 · May 10, 2007

Quote:
...now the question is who takes responsibility for an update?

Oh, good Lord, all I know is that I don't want to go through another firmware update on my VSX-84TXSi. What a pain in the ass that was. If Toshiba can provide an update to the HD-XA2, everyone will save themselves a lot of grief.

Since I have the Toshiba HD-XA2, the Pioneer Elite VSX-84TXSi, and a Pioneer Elite PRO-FHD1, I think I will try to reproduce your problem. I have been holding off watching Batman Begins until I get my display calibrated next week.

dponeill

· #18 · May 10, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Haghighi /forum/post/0

I hear you, I have brought this to the direct attention of a Pioneer engineer who helped get the first firmware update out there. I don't know if or when this will be fixed. I also updated Toshiba about the issue.

It is strange because the PS3 has been flawless at 1080P with the Pioneer...

I've only had my PS3 for about 2 weeks and only have 1 movie for it, but it played back fine. I may just sell the Pioneer and possibly replace it with one of the new Onkyo or Denon's.

MSmith83

· #19 · May 10, 2007

I can confirm that I and some other owners of the Pioneer Elite 84 receiver had the same exact problem with all Toshiba HD DVD players. Check the Elite 84 owner's thread for more information. I was the first person to mention it; I bought the receiver when it was first released.

This problem, combined with the Pioneer's LFE issue, prompted me to buy a Denon AVR-4306 and sell the Pioneer with the appropriate warnings.

John Haghighi

Discussion Starter · #20 · May 10, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Arnette /forum/post/0

Oh, good Lord, all I know is that I don't want to go through another firmware update on my VSX-84TXSi. What a pain in the ass that was. If Toshiba can provide an update to the HD-XA2, everyone will save themselves a lot of grief.

Since I have the Toshiba HD-XA2, the Pioneer Elite VSX-84TXSi, and a Pioneer Elite PRO-FHD1, I think I will try to reproduce your problem. I have been holding off watching Batman Begins until I get my display calibrated next week.

Well I know it was difficult to get the update the first time, but I think I was partly responsible for that. I posted info about the update before it was made available to service centers...and before the CS knew about it...bad move...the only thing I can say is that the Pioneer engineers really do care about resolving issues, it just doesn't happen at the speed everyone here expects, but they did deliver the fix.

I think it's almost impossible to account for every HDMI device and backwards compatibility issues, specifically because the HDMI organization does not have strict guidelines for licensing and QA, that is really what the problem is.

I am thinking this is a Toshiba fix..but who knows I am waiting to hear back..

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