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Confused about in ceiling speakers

1741 Views 11 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  JonfromCB
I want to add 4 in ceiling speakers for Atmos to my setup. The theater room ceiling is in the basement, only 7.5ft tall with a living room above it.

My confusion concerns back boxes or baffles. Do I need them? And if I do… why are they so hard to find? A current search of the web offers very little.

Polk, Klipsch, Emotiva, Monoprice… none of these speakers come with or have compatible enclosures offered on the manufacturer site or sites such as Crutchfield.

I’ve read other threads that claim you absolutely need them for the best sound… If this is the case, why wouldn’t the manufacturer offer an enclosure or mention something in the product description??

Help!
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Most of the time you don’t need any enclosure for those type of speakers as third design to basically run as a I/B . That means that it works best without a box, and the space that it’s mounted in is used as the box


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It's easy enough to build a box out of MDF. Just contact the manufacturer to find out the optimal box volume, apply math, and glue together a box.
Dynamat makes a "DynaBox" enclosure.
How often is someone going to be in the living room while you're watching movies in the basement?
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I'm looking at getting in ceiling as well and was wonder how would the sound affect the room above, but I'm sure all my other speakers will be heard way more than the Atmos speakers. I'm in a new construction home and they don't make them out of anything.
It's easy enough to build a box out of MDF. Just contact the manufacturer to find out the optimal box volume, apply math, and glue together a box.
Dynamat makes a "DynaBox" enclosure.
How often is someone going to be in the living room while you're watching movies in the basement?
Building a box would require cutting large square openings into the ceiling vs the standard round speaker cutout requirement. Building boxes is fine if the above area were an accessible attic, but that is not my case. Thanks for the suggestion.
I'm looking at getting in ceiling as well and was wonder how would the sound affect the room above, but I'm sure all my other speakers will be heard way more than the Atmos speakers. I'm in a new construction home and they don't make them out of anything.
I guess that is a good point. My SVS sub is always going to be more of an annoyance to my wife vs 6.5” Atmos speakers doing very little work. Thanks for the perspective.
you can always stuff some rockwool in the cavity to reduce sound transfer
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Short course. Speakers with properly designed enclosures and baffles are always "better" for a myriad of sonic/acoustic reasons. Key words: properly designed. Additionally "open" ceiling speakers in particular are inherently low efficiency. If a ceiling speaker is overrated at 85 or 87 Db/spl and the real world installed efficiency actually drops because it's installed in an unsealed hole with drywall for a baffle; and lets say the system has 4 of the same speakers, at typical listening levels those 4 speakers can "suck the watts" right out of a AVR being used to power a surround system. Every 3Db increase in volume requires double the Watts.
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Sigpig's Dynamat suggestion allows you to use the small circular hole to assemble a soft-walled box in the ceiling.
There's also a silicon pouch-type solution where it goes through the hole and you add foam, but I can't recall the name at the moment.

Dynamat makes a "DynaBox" enclosure.
Building a box would require cutting large square openings into the ceiling vs the standard round speaker cutout requirement. Building boxes is fine if the above area were an accessible attic, but that is not my case. Thanks for the suggestion.
I would try to see how noticeable the sound is in the living room before spending the money on back-boxes of any type.
I was trying to say that if you and your family are watching a movie in the basement, there wouldn'd be anyone in the living room to annoy with the sound. If both rooms are being used simultaneously, then I can see why you would want more soundproofing with your Atmos speakers. There is still going to be a LOT of sound transfer from your other speakers and subs too, that won't be deadened by a back-box...
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Short course. Speakers with properly designed enclosures and baffles are always "better" for a myriad of sonic/acoustic reasons. Key words: properly designed. Additionally "open" ceiling speakers in particular are inherently low efficiency. If a ceiling speaker is overrated at 85 or 87 Db/spl and the real world installed efficiency actually drops because it's installed in an unsealed hole with drywall for a baffle; and lets say the system has 4 of the same speakers, at typical listening levels those 4 speakers can "suck the watts" right out of a AVR being used to power a surround system. Every 3Db increase in volume requires double the Watts.
Do you think any of the in-ceiling speakers, at least below $500 MSRP, that dont have those issues? Im curious about something like this for example CI Home H65-A. I hear your post loud and clear that in general they are not going to be as good as bookshelf speakers etc, but it would help if you could clarify how big of the tradeoff it is, and if there are still recommended in-ceiling speakers or if you are saying to steer clear of in-ceiling speakers period? (at least, unless you DIY an enclosure and baffle, or find one that fits your speaker models, neither of which I know how to do).

Example: I'm trying to understand, are you saying they will never match up without paying a fortune, or do you mean more along the lines of,in-ceiling cant compete with bookshelves when it's a $100 model vs a $100 model, but a $200 in-ceiling speaker vs a $100 bookshelf, now the performance will be similar?

Thanks for helping ppl learn about this, appreciate it.
My post was in response to the OPs specific questions. Please don't make assumptions or assertions about what I said. I don't entirely understand your questions so I'll try to to give you some information I think relates.

Speakers have many parameters that can be measured. Some of the more common/famaliar measurements are SPL/@ 1 meter, frequency response, on and off axis response, decay, and many others as well. Better spec's indicate better performance. If you gave me the spec's on a given ceiling speaker and a given enclosed "point source" speaker I could certainly give you opinion on the differences between the two....but...there are multiple unknown variables with ceiling speakers as compared to enclosed speakers. ie: actual efficiency once installed, how it's frequency response is affected by the materials around it, behind it and that it's attached to, it's frequency response once it's installed relative to it's distance and angle to the listenening position. etc. In short, the measureable performance of any ceiling speaker once it's installed is a "crap shoot" at best and dependent on where one is willing to place their seating realitive to where the speaker (s) are installed. It's not a simple "apples to apples" and certainly not a "price point" comparison between the two.
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