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Connecting a Barco Data 3(80's) to a PC?

532 Views 23 Replies 5 Participants Last post by Celeborn, Nov 12, 2004

Celeborn

Discussion Starter · Oct 23, 2004

Hi everyone,

I have a problem, and a friend told me that what the guys at AVS dont know about CRT isn't worth knowing, so here I am

First off, I'm very new to CRT projectors, I have only owned LCD projectors before, mainly because of my financial situation.

But, now I got my hands on what is 90% confirmed to be a Barco Data 3 from ca 1985.

I say 90% confirmed because it actually doesn't say anywhere on the machine what model number it is, just "Barco"...

But different "experts" in the area in the stores here in Sweden think its a Barco Data 3 from ca '85. I'll have to settle with that for now.

Now before I got this projector, I had the chance of testing it with a linedoubler, and it worked! Great I thought, I'll hook it up to my computer and save the money by not buying a linedoubler.

As most great ideas, it was great in theory but not so great in reality.

The projector cant seem to handle the signal sent by my graphics card!

(tried an ATI Radeon 9000 Mobility from my laptop and a GeForce 4600 from my desktop)

The only thing I get is a very distorted signal

I have of course tried every refresh rate the cards can deliver, everything from 60 to 85 Hertz.

I would really really like to be able to hook this baby up to the computer or else I'd have to run it without linedoubler.. eww...

So my question to you guys, is it at all possible for a projector of this age to handle any kind of signal from a modern computer? If so, what do I have to do?

Thanks in advance guys, you're pretty much my only hope!

Jesper SjÃ¶quist

Stockholm, Sweden

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kal

· #2 · Oct 23, 2004

Most Barco's (especially the early ones) require negative sync on both the H and V lines... That's the first thing I'd try. If your video display drivers don't allow you to set this (though I believe both the latest ATI Catalyst and NVidia Detonator drivers do allow this), then you'll have to use PowerStrip.

What resolution were you feeding the projector? Since you know it works at line doubled (480p/60Hz) which is roughly 31Khz, I wouldn't try any higher resolutions until you figure out exactly what the scan limit of the projector is so make sure you're running a resolution such as [email protected] and no higher.

Post a picture of the Barco here and most likely someone will let you know exactly what unit it is and what the limits are.

Kal

virusc

· #3 · Oct 23, 2004

A lot of those early barcos were called data but only sync to 15-22 khz. EGA but not VGA. If it does not autolock I believe it is possible to manually lock the projector to a higher freq on some of the early barcos. I did it with a 600 once.

Celeborn

Discussion Starter · #4 · Oct 23, 2004

Thanks a lot Kal! Hadn't even heard about negative V and H syncs before, and definitely not Powerstrip which I'v reaserched now, looks like an awesome program, just takes a little patience I guess

I'll take a couple of pictures when I get a chance and post them!

Thanks a lot virusc too, but what exactly does it mean to lock or unlock to a frequency?

I guess I understand what it means but, what kind of frequency are we talking about?

The 15-22 khz you mentioned, I'm affraid thats a bit out of my league still, what was the purpose and outcome?

Thanks again guys, you have most likely saved me

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Celeborn

Discussion Starter · #5 · Oct 23, 2004

Wow! Nice setup you have Kal!

I just followed the links in your signature, thats a REAL nice setup you have in your basement man!

I now have a new goal

To beat Kal hehe

To bad its gonnna take me about 20 years to get there, but I will... Some day... some day...

kal

· #6 · Oct 23, 2004

Jesper,

You really shouldn't need to use PowerStrip if all you want in negative sync since both major manufacturers (ATI and NVidia) both have buttons to set neg. sync in their drivers (if I'm not mistaken).

PowerStrip's real power comes from the fact that you can set custom resolutions and refresh rates, along with custom front/back porch settings if you need to increase image size on your active raster.

Most of this won't be needed by the casual user however... take it one step at time and keep it simple to begin with!

Thanks for the kind words on my HT ! I had wanted something like you see in the pictures for quite a few years so I was happy when we bought a house that a workable basement some years back.

Kal

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Celeborn

Discussion Starter · #7 · Oct 23, 2004

Yeah I looked, both at my Geforce settings and Radeon and I couldn't find anything regarding the vertical or horizontal settings.

Drivers shouldn't be very outdated, couple of months at tops.

Either way I'm a fan of programs like PowerStrip

Not sure I need it tho, if I can get an acceptable resolution through my normal drivers, then that'll do for now, but thats IF I can set neg synch in my drivers which I cant seem to do at the moment.

Ahh well, I wont be able to try any of this out until next week anyway, but judging from my previous encounter with CRT projectors, I think I'll be back

Cel.

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kal

· #8 · Oct 24, 2004

I'm running an older version of the ATI Catalyst drivers (v4.4) on the office PC I'm using to type this and the option's there:

Display Properties -> Settings Tab -> Advanced Button -> Displays Tab -> Click on the Monitor -> Advanced Tab

Here I have options for the Horizontal and Vertical Sync.

Haven't had a GeForce card in any machine for a few months now so I can't confirm, but I'm pretty sure the same sort of thing exists.

Kal

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Celeborn

Discussion Starter · #9 · Oct 24, 2004

It was right there, right where you told me, guess the + and - buttons were too big for me to see hehe, cant see the woods cause of all the trees or something..

Going to pick up the PJ from my brothers place tomorrow and try it out

Thanks again bro!

Nich

· #10 · Oct 24, 2004

Yes, Powerstrip is your best friend, especially with Barco's!

Nicholas

Mark_A_W

· #11 · Oct 24, 2004

(Kal, just so you know, linedoubled in Europe would mean 576p/50hz PAL, not 480p/60hz NTSC. Scan rate is much the same. A minor nitpeck, but you don't want to lead a newbie up the garden path.....)

Celeborn

Discussion Starter · #12 · Oct 28, 2004

Allright, I'm back, as suspected.

With problems, as suspected...

I now have the PJ here with me and have spent the last couple of hours trying to get a flicker free picture.

My problem seems to be that the PJ doesn't have inputs for both Horizontal and Vertical sync, there is only one "Sync" input. Of course, I have a black and a white sync cable coming out from the cord together with my RGB cables.

Fine, I thought, there's probably a way to fix this in the display drivers or in Powerstrip, but I'm starting to lose hope.

This time I uploaded some pictures for you

Detailed pictures of the connectors on the PJ and on the reciever.

Yeah, theres a reciever. I dont know if this is good or bad, or if I should bypass it or not. Maybe one of you guys has had experience with these things?

The pictures can be found here:
http://gallery.avsforum.com/showgall...at=500&thumb=1

I'm guessing my main problem right now is how to combine the two sync signals into one or whatever is needed to solve that issue, then I gather I should have something to work with.

I come to that conclusion because I can actually see what would be a nice picture, but its of course totally scrambled since there is no control over the sync.

Thanx again guys!

Cel.

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Celeborn

Discussion Starter · #13 · Oct 28, 2004

I just said AHA! so loud I prolly woke my neighbours haha

I read in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=462883

that they guy needed a T connector to combine the two sync cables, I'm assuming this might solve my problem aswell! (or "hoping" rather)

Can anyone confirm this?

Cel.

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kal

· #14 · Oct 28, 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark_A_W
(Kal, just so you know, linedoubled in Europe would mean 576p/50hz PAL, not 480p/60hz NTSC. Scan rate is much the same. A minor nitpeck, but you don't want to lead a newbie up the garden path.....)

DOH! Yes, of course... Thanks for pointing that out... I overlooked his location!

Quote:

Originally posted by Celeborn
I'm guessing my main problem right now is how to combine the two sync signals into one or whatever is needed to solve that issue, then I gather I should have something to work with

Use a BNC T-connector:

http://www.z-buy.com/product/images/NT-BNCTC.gif

I've been using one myself on my BG800 for years now (even though it's not needed) since it seemed to make the sync stabler.

You asked about the 'receiver' - Isn't this a Barco switcher? Best to not use anything in the signal path unless you actually need it.

Kal

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Celeborn

Discussion Starter · #15 · Oct 28, 2004

Ahh yes, the T connector, I'll go get one the first thing tomorrow!

I also uploaded two pics of the interior, just for kicks

Cel.

kal

· #16 · Oct 28, 2004

Cel: As I suspected, this is an older Barco with analog convergence (you turn the little pots to control convergence). These tend to be very 'drifty' over time (convergence drifts easily so you're constantly turning these little pots). Good thing that you didn't pay much for it!

Kal

Celeborn

Discussion Starter · #17 · Oct 28, 2004

I see, this is where I start to sound like a noob haha

What exactly does that mean?

Convergence tends to drift? like drift all over the place in general? Does it hurt the tubes? or is it just considered an annoyance?

And what time are we talking about here? weeks? or years? Gonna be a ***** if I'm gonna have to re-callibrate it every month...

However I'm allready saving up for a new PJ hehe, but I'll get this one running first, and if the effect of the analog convergence isn't too much of a hazzle I'll keep it around.

Cel.

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kal

· #18 · Oct 29, 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Celeborn
What exactly does that mean?

Convergence tends to drift? like drift all over the place in general? Does it hurt the tubes? or is it just considered an annoyance?

Usually the entire red, green, or blue image will shift relative to the others (this is called static convergence), but some drift in zones is also common.

Doesn't hurt the tubes, it's just an annoyance. Though I suppose it *could* hurt the tubes if it drifted enough such that the image drifted off the CRT surface onto the sides of the CRT tube, but this would most likely require crazy amounts of drift. Usually it's just a few millimeters - just enough to be an annoyance.

And what time are we talking about here? weeks? or years? Gonna be a ***** if I'm gonna have to re-callibrate it every month...

Hate to say it, but it's usually every time you turn it on! Hopefully your unit's not quite as 'drifty'. There's only one way to find out.... set it up and see and start using it. Most will drift a bit in the first 30 mins too so don't do any changes until it's been warmed up by at least an hour or so.

Kal

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Celeborn

Discussion Starter · #19 · Oct 29, 2004

Ouch that bad huh?

Well I guess I'm just gonna have to try it out as you say, still looking for a T-connector, turns out it was easier said then done trying to find one but I found a place finally, gonna pick one up this weekend or on monday.

Regarding the reciever/switcher, it does have adjustments for contrast, brightness, color, tint and sharpness.

I figured those would be good to have, or is it easier to adjust that on the computer?

I hope you guys realise how much I appreciate your help here! I'm truly a CRT-n00b

Cel.

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kal

· #20 · Oct 29, 2004

You need to be able to adjust contrast/brightness on the projector, but aren't those controls available within the projector itself using the remote?

My thoughts about adding extra boxes are always the same - I'm a purist: The more "stuff" you put between your source and the projector, the more you're going to mess up the signal. Best to keep everything simple.

Though I remember reading that some earlier Barco's require external controller boxes to make them work... maybe this is one of them? Maybe it's not just a switching box? When you get it all working, a simple test would be to try connecting your PC directly and skip the switcher box and see what happens.

If you do need to be able to hook up more then one source to the projector, then by all means use it as I imagine it's a reasonably good switching device. If you don't need it and the projector works without it, maybe you could sell it for a few bucks towards your next projector.

Colour, Tint, and Sharpness don't work if you're using the RGB input. (They only work on Composite or Svideo and you don't want to use those inputs at all since (a) they look like crap, and (b) they only accept a straight PAL/NTSC input - higher frequencies are not allowed).

Kal

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