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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,


I have not been in here for quite awhile, since you all helped me figure out how to set up my old Logitech Z5500 ststem with my new receiver.

Now I would like to start pulling together a real, all-be-it, budhet 5.1 system, and the room is relatively small, appros 10 x 15.


I am considering the following 2 systems, and am looking for comments, advice, etc......

Thank you for any help at all

________________________________________________


PIONEER

$254.00 - SP-BS22-LR (Two pairs for FR, FL, RR, RL)

$ 97.00 - SP-C22 (Center)

$115.00 - Dayton Sub-800 (Subwoofer)

$466.00 - Total


PIONEER

$450.00 - SP-PK22-BS (Full 5.1 System)


CERWIN VEGA

$226.00 - VE-5M (Two pairs for FR, FL, RR, RL)

$ 71.00 - VE-5C (Center)

$115.00 - Dayton Sub-800 (Subwoofer)

$415.00 - Total
 

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I hear great things about those pioneers and you can probably find them cheaper, or for about that price and a little upgraded (you may have to wait on them, though). i also hear great things about the dayton sub. I have an energy sub that I bought for $100 and it works great, so I think it's pretty hard to go wrong there.


upgraded version of those pioneers:
http://www.philharmonicaudio.com/folio-me/html/Phil%20Pages/AALS.html


Best of luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for that link to the updated Pioneers.

Looks very interesting, and the total price difference is approx. $50.

I will check into them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Curious if there are any other comments and/or opinions on my initial choices, and also any further comments on the Philharmoic Updated Pioneers?
 

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It is an interesting comparison. It is hard to imagine two speaker systems in the same price range that are that different from each other. CV's are thumpy rock speakers and the Pioneer are fairly laid back and restrained and accurate in comparison. Perhaps you had better go do some listening. These systems aren't comparable in any way.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW  /t/1519658/considering-pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-or-cerwin-vega-ve-5m#post_24407265


It is an interesting comparison. It is hard to imagine two speaker systems in the same price range that are that different from each other. CV's are thumpy rock speakers and the Pioneer are fairly laid back and restrained and accurate in comparison. Perhaps you had better go do some listening. These systems aren't comparable in any way.

Just bought a set of the pioneers. That's probably the best description I've heard to capture the way they sound. I'm a little let down by just HOW restrained they are, but for 129 bucks, I don't think you can expect miracles. (The 60 dollar integra's in BB put out a much louder and satisfying field of sound, but they're not nearly as accurate)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandlewood  /t/1519658/considering-pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-or-cerwin-vega-ve-5m#post_24407487


Just bought a set of the pioneers. That's probably the best description I've heard to capture the way they sound. I'm a little let down by just HOW restrained they are, but for 129 bucks, I don't think you can expect miracles. (The 60 dollar integra's in BB put out a much louder and satisfying field of sound, but they're not nearly as accurate)

It is a matter of preference. Loudness is not major issue for some of us. I would prefer accuracy and the Pioneers are very accurate when you consider the low price.. If someone gave me a pair of CV I would literally give them back because that isn't the kind of sound I like.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW  /t/1519658/considering-pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-or-cerwin-vega-ve-5m#post_24407554


It is a matter of preference. Loudness is not major issue for some of us. I would prefer accuracy and the Pioneers are very accurate when you consider the low price.. If someone gave me a pair of CV I would literally give them back because that isn't the kind of sound I like.

It's that accuracy that has prevented me from returning them
. Loud and sloppy gets old fast. I just think it's important to go into the purchase with as much info as possible.


I've never heard CV speakers, but they certainly look pretty cool.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for the comments guys.


If the stock Pioneers are half as good as you say, then the Philharmonic modified version aught to be off the charts, and for not that much more cash to boot.


I will be going out to listen to some different systems as soon as I can get a bit of free time.


Thanks again,

Roger
 

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If you really want the most for your money, you should look at manufacturer direct speakers. The dealer markup is simply not there. There are many examples. These are the ones I use. You can't buy anything close to that at that price from a dealer. HTD is another example of manufacturer direct speakers that are well reviewed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I am still looking at the Pioneer speakers, and am curious about the difference between the following groups of speakers, shown on the Pioneer website as of this morning, given that they are similar, and exactly the same price. Can anyone shed any light on the differences between them?


Book Shelf Speakers

SP-BS22-LR $129.99

SP-BS21-LR $129.99


Floor Speakers

SP-FS52 $129.99

SP-FS51-LR $199.99


Center Speaker

SP-C22 $ 99.99

SP-C21 $ 99.99


Thanks,

Roger
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by herkulese  /t/1519658/considering-pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-or-cerwin-vega-ve-5m#post_24446759


I am still looking at the Pioneer speakers, and am curious about the difference between the following groups of speakers, shown on the Pioneer website as of this morning, given that they are similar, and exactly the same price. Can anyone shed any light on the differences between them?


Book Shelf Speakers

SP-BS22-LR $129.99

SP-BS21-LR $129.99


Floor Speakers

SP-FS52 $129.99

SP-FS51-LR $199.99


Center Speaker

SP-C22 $ 99.99

SP-C21 $ 99.99


Thanks,

Roger
The ones that end in "2" are the most recent verision with an update to their appearance and performance. The SP-fs52's are sold as $130/each


The ones that end in "1" are the first generation and can be found sold at a discounted price as they are older generation.


Personally I am not a fan of the first generation of the pioneers in terms of sound and looks. The second generation sounds like a major improvement than the first generation speakers I listened to.


I would recommend this:
Quote:
PIONEER

$254.00 - SP-BS22-LR (Two pairs for FR, FL, RR, RL)

$ 97.00 - SP-C22 (Center)
But with this subwoofer, the Dayton Sub-1200 ( http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-sub-1200-12-120-watt-powered-subwoofer--300-629 )
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425  /t/1519658/considering-pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-or-cerwin-vega-ve-5m#post_24447433


The ones that end in "2" are the most recent verision with an update to their appearance and performance. The SP-fs52's are sold as $130/each


The ones that end in "1" are the first generation and can be found sold at a discounted price as they are older generation.


Personally I am not a fan of the first generation of the pioneers in terms of sound and looks. The second generation sounds like a major improvement than the first generation speakers I listened to.


I would recommend this:

But with this subwoofer, the Dayton Sub-1200 ( http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-sub-1200-12-120-watt-powered-subwoofer--300-629 )

Thanks for the confirmation info.


Your recommendation is the set that I started with, and am still leaning toward, and I may even consider the Philharmonic Accuracy (modified) versions of both, that one of the guys here recommended earlier in this thread. The price is not that much more, and the mod seems quite extensive, with a new higher quality tweeter and crossover, and they come highly praised.


I am also considering the HTD level two bookshelves and center as another alternative.


I was in a local general store last Saturday, and they had a pair the Boston Acoustics Classic CS-260 ii, floor standers, and boy are they sweet, clear, concise, crisp but natural highs, and solid but clear base. The sound stage was incredible, but they go for just under $400 a pair. That is a bit more than I want to spend, but they absolutely blew away any and all of Klipsch speakers up to and well over $1000 a pair.


We have a vintage HiFi dealer in the one of the Malls here in Syracuse, and they get some very nice used equipment, Amps, Receivers, Turntables, Real to Reals, Awesome Speakers of all types and sizes, and a huge selection of vintage Vinyl as well, so I will also keep looking there, but finding matched fronts, rears and center is a bit more complicated that way, but they are knowledgeable, and have a passion for music and how it sounds


LAST QUESTION: Am I on the right track with the Dayton Sub-100 subwoofer?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by herkulese  /t/1519658/considering-pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-or-cerwin-vega-ve-5m#post_24452444


Thanks for the confirmation info.


Your recommendation is the set that I started with, and am still leaning toward, and I may even consider the Philharmonic Accuracy (modified) versions of both, that one of the guys here recommended earlier in this thread. The price is not that much more, and the mod seems quite extensive, with a new higher quality tweeter and crossover, and they come highly praised.


I am also considering the HTD level two bookshelves and center as another alternative.


I was in a local general store last Saturday, and they had a pair the Boston Acoustics Classic CS-260 ii, floor standers, and boy are they sweet, clear, concise, crisp but natural highs, and solid but clear base. The sound stage was incredible, but they go for just under $400 a pair. That is a bit more than I want to spend, but they absolutely blew away any and all of Klipsch speakers up to and well over $1000 a pair.


We have a vintage HiFi dealer in the one of the Malls here in Syracuse, and they get some very nice used equipment, Amps, Receivers, Turntables, Real to Reals, Awesome Speakers of all types and sizes, and a huge selection of vintage Vinyl as well, so I will also keep looking there, but finding matched fronts, rears and center is a bit more complicated that way, but they are knowledgeable, and have a passion for music and how it sounds


LAST QUESTION: Am I on the right track with the Dayton Sub-100 subwoofer?

You know, I've owned CVs and don't think they get enough credit. For people who need efficient speakers with decent lows and highs, they are pretty stout. Sure, they may not be as refined as some others, but they work especially well in a 2-channel vintage configuration where you can EQ the sound to dial up/down the treble and bass to taste. I sometimes wonder what people would think of CV if they listened to them under a blind listening test.


That being said, I wouldn't be scared of CVs, though I think you can do better for the $$$.


A couple of suggestions I'd have are to:

- Also look at JBL; Fry's is currently blowing out the ES80 towers for $144 each - pretty good deal. JBL also have a reputation for being a bit of a "rock" speaker, which suits me fine.

- ES series bookshelves are also apparently going on eBay for a reasonable price - haven't checked this out myself.

- Many of the JBC centres available on eBay from $40-up are compatable with the ES series tweeter, though even the ES seriec centres are not too expensive.

- Can't speak for the Dayton subs, but I do know good deals can occasionally be scored on the Polk PSW-505; I have not heard any subwoofer in the 505's price range that is even close in its low extension and musicality.


All together, you could have:

JBL ES80 Fronts - $288 (Fry's)

JBL ES10 or 20 Bookshelves - $170 (Shipped, eBay)

JBC ES25CBK Centre - $152 (Shipped, eBay)

Polk PSW-505 Sub - $205 (Shipped, Polk store, eBay)


Final damage, $815 for a pretty stellar and versatile system. At least IMHO. Unfortunately, a bit more than your original budget, but that was all around bookshelves. If you went to something like a JBL N-Center, and went all bookshelves, you'd be down to around $600. Still pretty stellar, though the deal on those towers is superb.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScooterMcTavish  /t/1519658/considering-pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-or-cerwin-vega-ve-5m#post_24452980


- Can't speak for the Dayton subs, but I do know good deals can occasionally be scored on the Polk PSW-505; I have not heard any subwoofer in the 505's price range that is even close in its low extension and musicality.

I think you are the first person I have seen to recommend the Polk PSW-505. I usually see recomendations for Dayton or Bic subs for the price/performance. I definitely read people are happy with the Polk subs, but it does not seem to get recommended much.


Note: I am not disputing you as I have listened to none of the three.
It is just an observation.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by herkulese  /t/1519658/considering-pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-or-cerwin-vega-ve-5m#post_24452444


I was in a local general store last Saturday, and they had a pair the Boston Acoustics Classic CS-260 ii, floor standers, and boy are they sweet, clear, concise, crisp but natural highs, and solid but clear base. The sound stage was incredible, but they go for just under $400 a pair. That is a bit more than I want to spend, but they absolutely blew away any and all of Klipsch speakers up to and well over $1000 a pair.

Boston A250 towers, $300 a pair here
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/bosa250gba/boston-acoustics-a250-2-way-dual-5.25-floor-standing-speaker-ea-black/1.html
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsianMan  /t/1519658/considering-pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-or-cerwin-vega-ve-5m#post_24453251


I think you are the first person I have seen to recommend the Polk PSW-505. I usually see recomendations for Dayton or Bic subs for the price/performance. I definitely read people are happy with the Polk subs, but it does not seem to get recommended much.


Note: I am not disputing you as I have listened to none of the three.
It is just an observation.
I recommend the Polk PSW505 and would choose it over the Dayton and Bic F12 is a person budget allows. $205 shipped for that subwoofer is a great deal
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsianMan  /t/1519658/considering-pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-or-cerwin-vega-ve-5m#post_24453251


I think you are the first person I have seen to recommend the Polk PSW-505. I usually see recomendations for Dayton or Bic subs for the price/performance. I definitely read people are happy with the Polk subs, but it does not seem to get recommended much.


Note: I am not disputing you as I have listened to none of the three.
It is just an observation.

Probably the reason the Polks don't get much love, is really, the PSW line is not great. The only sub from the line I would recommend is the PSW-505, mainly as its rolled surround allows for some very serious excursion, delivering some of the deepest notes I'd ever heard in a 12".


When I was helping a friend pick out some speakers, we ran through a wide variety of 12" subs. Out of everything we tested, nothing had the low end reach the Polk did.


This is completely different than the rest of the line which is pretty lightweight.


Also important to note that this sub originally had an MSRP of around $600, but is now at the end of its product life cycle. Really too bad, as dollars to donuts, it is the best sub in its class, even at MSRP.


This photo gives an idea how much the roll on the woofer allows the sub to move:




Plus the sub is in a pretty compact package. Just watched Star Wars Ep. IV tonight, and loved every rumble I felt as well as heard. Really a stellar product.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScooterMcTavish  /t/1519658/considering-pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-or-cerwin-vega-ve-5m#post_24454668


Probably the reason the Polks don't get much love, is really, the PSW line is not great. The only sub from the line I would recommend is the PSW-505, mainly as its rolled surround allows for some very serious excursion, delivering some of the deepest notes I'd ever heard in a 12".


When I was helping a friend pick out some speakers, we ran through a wide variety of 12" subs. Out of everything we tested, nothing had the low end reach the Polk did.


This is completely different than the rest of the line which is pretty lightweight.


Also important to note that this sub originally had an MSRP of around $600, but is now at the end of its product life cycle. Really too bad, as dollars to donuts, it is the best sub in its class, even at MSRP.


This photo gives an idea how much the roll on the woofer allows the sub to move:




Plus the sub is in a pretty compact package. Just watched Star Wars Ep. IV tonight, and loved every rumble I felt as well as heard. Really a stellar product.

I just checked at the POLK Ebay store and the PSW-505 is down to $261
Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01  /t/1519658/considering-pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-or-cerwin-vega-ve-5m#post_24453311


Boston A250 towers, $300 a pair here
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/bosa250gba/boston-acoustics-a250-2-way-dual-5.25-floor-standing-speaker-ea-black/1.html

Do you know how the a250 would compare to the CS-260 ii tiwers?
 
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