I noticed in the store ConsumerReports latest issue on TVs. I was wondering what do the TV experts here think of the ratings? Do you agree or disagree?
ConsumerReports TV Ratings
ConsumerReports TV Ratings
ConsumerReports Issue on TVs, Do Agree with Ratings?
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In general CR comes to much the same conclusion that we do here on this forum. You'll notice that Sony, Samsung, and the other top manufacturers are at the top while ones like Syvania and Magnavox are at the bottom. While we might argue with specific model choices, it's clear that they really do look at many of the same things that we do when reviewing LCD choices.
Jim
Jim
Here is ConsumerReports TV buying Guide Video.
http://video.consumerreports.org/ser...tid=1280500146
http://video.consumerreports.org/ser...tid=1280500146
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I've been a subscriber for about 30 years (whew) and have used their reviews and user reviews on many occasions. When it comes to cars and appliances to name a few they I have come to trust in their reports. For audio and video products I also check to see what they have to say about those items and compare and weigh that info with other sources and what I like. They do a good service for consumers.
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Yes, because those models perform very well for their price and outperform some pricier models as well. I stick to first tier brands, though, since I care more about overall PQ and features than I do about price.
Yes, because those models perform very well for their price and outperform some pricier models as well. I stick to first tier brands, though, since I care more about overall PQ and features than I do about price.
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CR is a good source, although I'd say that the forums here on AVS is the best source, biased though I might be.
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Aside from calibration reports/reviews from pro calibrators, I find this forum to be a bad source for getting objective info about buying a new TV. There's plenty of bias, opinions, and pointless generalizations (especially with the LCD vs. Plasma crap). The same can be said about the 720p vs. 1080p argument, where generalizations are also made.
I believe in objectively evaluating specific models over generalizations that are often made (with strong biases). Everyone likes to justify what they bought and voice their opinions, but if I'm making a major TV purchase I want reliable information that is purely objective and not related to personal preferences or biases in any way. CNET is also a good place for reviews, though it might not be as objective as CR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD_Lantern /forum/post/18223703
CR is a good source, although I'd say that the forums here on AVS is the best source, biased though I might be.![]()
Aside from calibration reports/reviews from pro calibrators, I find this forum to be a bad source for getting objective info about buying a new TV. There's plenty of bias, opinions, and pointless generalizations (especially with the LCD vs. Plasma crap). The same can be said about the 720p vs. 1080p argument, where generalizations are also made.
I believe in objectively evaluating specific models over generalizations that are often made (with strong biases). Everyone likes to justify what they bought and voice their opinions, but if I'm making a major TV purchase I want reliable information that is purely objective and not related to personal preferences or biases in any way. CNET is also a good place for reviews, though it might not be as objective as CR.
The problem is most people on these forums do not have real hands on experience with enough TV brands/models to give good advice on every single one.
all anyone on these forums can do is say their thoughts and give their opinions on various TV's and if someone has a bias on something its likely because they really like that brand/model/type of display. bias can be bad for being objective but if a person has owned and used quite a few different TV's that are of recent manufacture their bias just shows what they prefer in a TV vs what others may prefer
Cnet's reviewer is pretty well known to have a bias toward plasma's most people who like to watch films in a dark room will have the same bias because they are the best flat display for that purpose just as an example not trying to bring up a plasma vs lcd discussion here or anything just putting it out there.
you really cannot get away from bias's everyones got one and people that have used more displays in depth have better experienced various TV's capabilities enough to trust their bias more than a guy that has only owned a couple LCD's etc. TV reviewers like the guy over on Cnet have used many more TV's in a normal environment than most people on these forums so his opinions in a review are to be more trusted i would suppose.
as for consumer reports idk, not paying for their service because i found the perfect TV's for me and they wouldn't provide me with the information i need to find good gaming TV's anyways, no US review sites do but there are some european sites that test TV's for input lag
The problem is most people on these forums do not have real hands on experience with enough TV brands/models to give good advice on every single one.
all anyone on these forums can do is say their thoughts and give their opinions on various TV's and if someone has a bias on something its likely because they really like that brand/model/type of display. bias can be bad for being objective but if a person has owned and used quite a few different TV's that are of recent manufacture their bias just shows what they prefer in a TV vs what others may prefer
Cnet's reviewer is pretty well known to have a bias toward plasma's most people who like to watch films in a dark room will have the same bias because they are the best flat display for that purpose just as an example not trying to bring up a plasma vs lcd discussion here or anything just putting it out there.
you really cannot get away from bias's everyones got one and people that have used more displays in depth have better experienced various TV's capabilities enough to trust their bias more than a guy that has only owned a couple LCD's etc. TV reviewers like the guy over on Cnet have used many more TV's in a normal environment than most people on these forums so his opinions in a review are to be more trusted i would suppose.
as for consumer reports idk, not paying for their service because i found the perfect TV's for me and they wouldn't provide me with the information i need to find good gaming TV's anyways, no US review sites do but there are some european sites that test TV's for input lag
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CR may not be as detailed as CNET in their reviews, but I find them to be very objective and consistent in the way they rate and score the TVs they get a chance to try out overall. If you like a model not covered then you'll have to look elsewhere and for that CNET might offer the review.
One thing other than the lack of input lag testing that bothers me about CR is that they don't seem to have the best method for determining color accuracy. They don't disclose how they test color accuracy and they say some TVs have excellent color accuracy even when calibrators have identified major issues with those sets. In particular, the 2009 Panasonic Plasmas with the old THX mode and those without THX that have oversaturated greens and reds. It would be nice if they employed CNET's method for testing color that includes specific information about a display's gamut and color decoding.
CR may not be as detailed as CNET in their reviews, but I find them to be very objective and consistent in the way they rate and score the TVs they get a chance to try out overall. If you like a model not covered then you'll have to look elsewhere and for that CNET might offer the review.
One thing other than the lack of input lag testing that bothers me about CR is that they don't seem to have the best method for determining color accuracy. They don't disclose how they test color accuracy and they say some TVs have excellent color accuracy even when calibrators have identified major issues with those sets. In particular, the 2009 Panasonic Plasmas with the old THX mode and those without THX that have oversaturated greens and reds. It would be nice if they employed CNET's method for testing color that includes specific information about a display's gamut and color decoding.
yeah but the average end user does not care much about that kind of stuff
Panasonic also seems to do the same thing on their LCD's btw, my 37S1 has over saturated reds and blues and it causes blurry red or blue text when displayed on dark/black backgrounds
yeah but the average end user does not care much about that kind of stuff
Panasonic also seems to do the same thing on their LCD's btw, my 37S1 has over saturated reds and blues and it causes blurry red or blue text when displayed on dark/black backgrounds
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Wow, I am very impressed with the fair and reasonable comments about Consumer Reports here! Usually, most discussions here disparage their ratings and reports without understanding that CR is aimed at "normal" people who don't obsess over every little tiny detail of electronic equipment (as most of us proud AVS Forum members do!).
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I have almost always thought Consumer Reports ratings were dead-on reliable for most things; the exceptions were things where I nitpick over details that average people will not likely care much about. For something like their TV ratings, I would start with their recommendations but do some of my own comparisons to see if I find anything that they might not have considered but that is important to me. One example is computer-input performance of flat-panel TVs; I care highly about that but CR would never bother with it. So, I would test that on the TVs they recommend, and also look at some of the sets they rate poorly to see if I also see the same problems they do.
I have almost always thought Consumer Reports ratings were dead-on reliable for most things; the exceptions were things where I nitpick over details that average people will not likely care much about. For something like their TV ratings, I would start with their recommendations but do some of my own comparisons to see if I find anything that they might not have considered but that is important to me. One example is computer-input performance of flat-panel TVs; I care highly about that but CR would never bother with it. So, I would test that on the TVs they recommend, and also look at some of the sets they rate poorly to see if I also see the same problems they do.
im so glad you said that without trying to justify it. anyone that pays any kind of attention to these threads can easily identify a pattern of fanboyism and after a while you just start to see the same stuff from the same people thread after thread. I don't doubt that there are some intelligent and knowledgeable people around here, but the vast majority are just putting their 2 cents in based on what they own or what they want with little objectivity. then you have those that don't have any opinion but just respond to kiss the ***es of those who do. its like being back in high school...sad. just glad im not the only one who feels this way.
im so glad you said that without trying to justify it. anyone that pays any kind of attention to these threads can easily identify a pattern of fanboyism and after a while you just start to see the same stuff from the same people thread after thread. I don't doubt that there are some intelligent and knowledgeable people around here, but the vast majority are just putting their 2 cents in based on what they own or what they want with little objectivity. then you have those that don't have any opinion but just respond to kiss the ***es of those who do. its like being back in high school...sad. just glad im not the only one who feels this way.
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My biggest CR problem is that they often don't review all of the available models. They tend to get a sampling of the middle-of-the-road and lower tier models, to find best buys for the consumers. While I love them for appliances, vacuums, etc where there really isn't enough justification to buy a premium model, I'm not quite as reliant on them for tech stuff. The most recent report, for example, didn't really look at the 8500 Samsung, which was by most accounts other accounts the best quality LCD made in 2009. I'd love to see how they compared the 8500 to e.g. the Vizio.
You must have missed the fact that CR tested the Samsung UN46B8500 in the March 2010 issue, along with the Sony KDL-52XBR10.
I know you aren't kidding about CR not testing all of the available models, but that would be a monsterous undertaking. Testing every model from every manufacturer in every size would involve hundreds of models. And what about all the models that are made for big box stores? These slight variants from the "standard" models can't all be tested. Given the fact that people are buying a lot of TVs in this country, CR did the largest test of TVs in its history. The March 2010 issue has ratings of more than 130 models
As it is, they have to have their shoppers buy these TVs in B&Ms around the country and have them shipped to CRs labs to make sure they don't get tweaked models. When the manufacturer sends a TV to the tester, you don't know if it is a pre-production model, or whether it has been tweaked and is not going to be representative.
CR is all about balance. They test many products and services and have to be very careful in deciding what to test and how many samples is enough.
They can no more test every TV in every size and every variant than they can test every car on the market in every trim line and with every engine and transmission combination.
You must have missed the fact that CR tested the Samsung UN46B8500 in the March 2010 issue, along with the Sony KDL-52XBR10.
I know you aren't kidding about CR not testing all of the available models, but that would be a monsterous undertaking. Testing every model from every manufacturer in every size would involve hundreds of models. And what about all the models that are made for big box stores? These slight variants from the "standard" models can't all be tested. Given the fact that people are buying a lot of TVs in this country, CR did the largest test of TVs in its history. The March 2010 issue has ratings of more than 130 models
As it is, they have to have their shoppers buy these TVs in B&Ms around the country and have them shipped to CRs labs to make sure they don't get tweaked models. When the manufacturer sends a TV to the tester, you don't know if it is a pre-production model, or whether it has been tweaked and is not going to be representative.
CR is all about balance. They test many products and services and have to be very careful in deciding what to test and how many samples is enough.
They can no more test every TV in every size and every variant than they can test every car on the market in every trim line and with every engine and transmission combination.
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Haven't seen the 8500 in March 2010 yet. I can't imagine anyone could test all of them. The 8500, for example, was out 6 months before the 3/10 report came out. Any 2009 Best of list skipped it.
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