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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Goal: Using TiVo(s) (or Cable boxes) in central closet to watch TV's in different rooms.

Background:
  • TV locations: 1 MBR, 1 upstairs bedroom, 1 Loft, 1 Kitchen 1 family room
  • One 4-tuner TiVo XL that the 4 tuners could be shared 4 TV location above
  • One 2-tuner TiVo Premiere that could be used with any 1 location above
  • Open to using multiple cable company's HD DVR's at each location
  • House has Coax & Cat6 @ each above location - so TiVo signal can come come over via MOCA (coax) or Ethernet (Cat6)
  • BluRay & Amp only need to be dedicated only to Family room - not distributed


A/V guy Recomendation:

Using IR Repeaters @ the TV end to send commands back over Coax to the TiVo.

Question:

Can I basically control individual TV's at each location with a simple Signal sent over Coax?

In short, the goal is to allow TV's in each room to have it's own tuner & TiVo watching ability but limiting cable or Tivo boxes & putting them all in one location.

Do I have enough boxes?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor  /t/1468530/control-multiple-tvs-via...set-rf-over-coax-budget-limited#post_23210357

http://www.tivo.com/products/tivo-mini/index.html?WT.ac=tivohome_banner_tivomini

Yep aware of that & they would be a consideration also if there were no little box in each room, & the little Mini's didn't have it's own monthly charge & up front cost.


Having said that, having the AV guy charge me $1K+ to do the repeaters over coax may still cost more than having those little boxes in each room.
 

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Lifetime service w/hardware on a Mini is $249.


You can do remote control via RF to any number of TiVo units for a few hundred, using either the Xantech XtraLink2 over coax, any number of IR repeaters over cat5, or just a collection of TiVo remotes with the "Next Generation Remote Control Extender" to convert them into RF.


But none of those pieces actually handles the video distribution itself, which you haven't discussed. Doing any HDMI or other HD-capable solution is going to cost more than a couple of Mini units, and won't provide you with independent viewing (every room will get the same content).


If I was a cable customer (I'm on DirecTV), the TiVo XL plus Mini per room would be at the top of my list...



Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor  /t/1468530/control-multiple-tvs-via...set-rf-over-coax-budget-limited#post_23210525


Lifetime service w/hardware on a Mini is $249.


You can do remote control via RF to any number of TiVo units for a few hundred, using either the Xantech XtraLink2 over coax, any number of IR repeaters over cat5, or just a collection of TiVo remotes with the "Next Generation Remote Control Extender" to convert them into RF.


But none of those pieces actually handles the video distribution itself, which you haven't discussed. Doing any HDMI or other HD-capable solution is going to cost more than a couple of Mini units, and won't provide you with independent viewing (every room will get the same content).


If I was a cable customer (I'm on DirecTV), the TiVo XL plus Mini per room would be at the top of my list...



Jeff

Thanks for input.


After review I agree that TiVo P4XL + Mini is the way to go for me for TV distribution & independent controlling.

Controlling them remotely was the key & you've provided me with some alternatives!


My updated plan would be for:


1) Kitchen/Master = share a dual Tuner TiVo signal - thus independent Live TV viewing will not be capable for these 2 rooms (but recorded shows are).

2) Family Room = TiVoP4XL distributed to 3 below

3) Loft = TiVo Mini from #2

Opt) 2nd BedRm = TiVo Mini from #2


My remaining concerns are:


1) If i am sending remote control input signals via Coax - how will that affect my MOCA signals from the TiVo's?

2) Will coax + my TiVo's + my HDTV = HD signals in 1080i output? Or do i need a converter somewhere along the line or do i need to terminate the Coax (or my other cable in the wall is CAT6) to HDMI?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripleM  /t/1468530/control-multiple-tvs-via...set-rf-over-coax-budget-limited#post_23214237


1) If i am sending remote control input signals via Coax - how will that affect my MOCA signals from the TiVo's?

No problem, but I'd go with the NextGen RF product instead as it avoids other potential issues with IR receivers (interference from flat panels) that the older systems like XtraLink will have.
Quote:
2) Will coax + my TiVo's + my HDTV = HD signals in 1080i output? Or do i need a converter somewhere along the line or do i need to terminate the Coax (or my other cable in the wall is CAT6) to HDMI?

No, the only HD output(s) from any set-top box (including TiVo) will be from the HDMI and component video outputs. You can get an HDMI-over-coax solution or several variations of HDMI or Component over Cat5e. The coax-based HD distribution will be $200+ per run (and point-to-point). Cat5e solutions, point-to-point, can be
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor  /t/1468530/control-multiple-tvs-via...set-rf-over-coax-budget-limited#post_23214718


No problem, but I'd go with the NextGen RF product instead as it avoids other potential issues with IR receivers (interference from flat panels) that the older systems like XtraLink will have.



No, the only HD output(s) from any set-top box (including TiVo) will be from the HDMI and component video outputs. You can get an HDMI-over-coax solution or several variations of HDMI or Component over Cat5e. The coax-based HD distribution will be $200+ per run (and point-to-point). Cat5e solutions, point-to-point, can be
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor  /t/1468530/control-multiple-tvs-via...set-rf-over-coax-budget-limited#post_23214718


No problem, but I'd go with the NextGen RF product instead as it avoids other potential issues with IR receivers (interference from flat panels) that the older systems like XtraLink will have.

Ok - it looks like you arre really pushing this RF extender - which I believe also - is a better solution to overcome walls.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor  /t/1468530/control-multiple-tvs-via...set-rf-over-coax-budget-limited#post_23214718


No, the only HD output(s) from any set-top box (including TiVo) will be from the HDMI and component video outputs. You can get an HDMI-over-coax solution or several variations of HDMI or Component over Cat5e. The coax-based HD distribution will be $200+ per run (and point-to-point). Cat5e solutions, point-to-point, can be
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripleM  /t/1468530/control-multiple-tvs-via...set-rf-over-coax-budget-limited#post_23216492


Ok - it looks like you arre really pushing this RF extender - which I believe also - is a better solution to overcome walls.

Yes, because it works and is super-cheap. And yes, RF works through walls and across floors in the house. If you want to control multiple TiVo boxes, you can assign each box and remote to a different IR code ID. There are some TiVo remotes that have a DVR1/DVR2 switch that makes this really handy...
Quote:
Main objective was to get the Tivo's out of sight.

Next is to bring HD to each of the location.

- I have 1 Cat6 besides the coax out to each location - With the longest run being maybe 70' to the upstairs loft from the patch panel.

So a solution that is bringing a signal via CAT6 with an HDMI extender in between should solve my HD output issue no?

Yes. Best products for that on the market are the HDBaseT units (cheapest ~$180). There are other solutions, but single-cable ones are generally over $100 anyway, and HDBaseT will give you remote repeating as well for that price.


Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor  /t/1468530/control-multiple-tvs-via...set-rf-over-coax-budget-limited#post_23216578


Yes, because it works and is super-cheap. And yes, RF works through walls and across floors in the house. If you want to control multiple TiVo boxes, you can assign each box and remote to a different IR code ID. There are some TiVo remotes that have a DVR1/DVR2 switch that makes this really handy...

Yes. Best products for that on the market are the HDBaseT units (cheapest ~$180). There are other solutions, but single-cable ones are generally over $100 anyway, and HDBaseT will give you remote repeating as well for that price.


Jeff

1) How would the RF come into play via the HDBaseT extenders?
* wouldn't it render the RF unnecessary since it can carry IR signals too now? ]
** if above is true, then the cost savings of using RF vs. HDBaseT is at the expense of losing full HDMI capability listed in #2 below - no?


2) Since HDBaseT extenders can basically carry a lot of data including full uncompressed 1080P, 3D, 7.1 Audio & bi-directional IR functionality - what if I don't care about full surround sound @ the secondary locations - does it make sense to get a non-HDBaseT balun for those locations & still get the uncompressed 1080P video?
*** correct me if I am wrong but balun is an extender no?


3) Therefore, if the points in #2 above are true, then I can get a HDBaseT for the primary family room location because that's where the main viewership will be for my house
**** loft, kitchen, guest upstairs bedroom will get a lesser extender but still get 1080p & digital sound


Again - appreciate your thoughts.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripleM  /t/1468530/control-multiple-tvs-via...set-rf-over-coax-budget-limited#post_23217914


1) How would the RF come into play via the HDBaseT extenders?
- wouldn't it render the RF unnecessary since it can carry IR signals too now? ]
- if above is true, then the cost savings of using RF vs. HDBaseT is at the expense of losing full HDMI capability listed in #2 below - no?

It would provide a remote control repeater solution for that location. Whether you should use that or an RF solution for the whole house will depend on the rest of the setup... But at least for that room, you don't need both.
Quote:
2) Since HDBaseT extenders can basically carry a lot of data including full uncompressed 1080P, 3D, 7.1 Audio & bi-directional IR functionality - what if I don't care about full surround sound @ the secondary location - does it make sense to get a non-HDBaseT balun for those locations & still get the uncompressed 1080P video?

All of the HDMI baluns carry the HDMI signal untouched. The audio/video features are the same, as long as the balun can handle the bandwidth of things like 3D and deepcolor (the cheaper ones may not). The choice of surround sound or not at the receiving side doesn't matter, all baluns will do the same in that regard.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor  /t/1468530/control-multiple-tvs-via...set-rf-over-coax-budget-limited#post_23217932


It would provide a remote control repeater solution for that location. Whether you should use that or an RF solution for the whole house will depend on the rest of the setup... But at least for that room, you don't need both.
Understood!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor  /t/1468530/control-multiple-tvs-via...set-rf-over-coax-budget-limited#post_23217932


All of the HDMI baluns carry the HDMI signal untouched. The audio/video features are the same, as long as the balun can handle the bandwidth of things like 3D and deepcolor (the cheaper ones may not). The choice of surround sound or not at the receiving side doesn't matter, all baluns will do the same in that regard.

So then, your overriding determinant with the HDBaseT original suggestion is based on the ability to connect over further distances right?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripleM  /t/1468530/control-multiple-tvs-via...set-rf-over-coax-budget-limited#post_23218027


So then, your overriding determinant with the HDBaseT original suggestion is based on the ability to connect over further distances right?

No, although that's a feature of HDBaseT, it rarely comes into play for residential uses -
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor  /t/1468530/control-multiple-tvs-via...set-rf-over-coax-budget-limited#post_23218452


No, although that's a feature of HDBaseT, it rarely comes into play for residential uses -
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW  /t/1468530/control-multiple-tvs-via...set-rf-over-coax-budget-limited#post_23219653


Isn't HDBaseT a lot more stable and reliable as well?

Yes, we should expect so, which is why when the comparison and cost gets close anyway, go for the HDBaseT gear.
 

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Huh....I think I have just stumbled upon my anticipated solution for cable distribution throughout my new construction. I REALLY like the idea of the TiVo DVR coupled with the TiVo Minis

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripleM  /t/1468530/control-multiple-tvs-via...set-rf-over-coax-budget-limited#post_23216492


Ok - it looks like you arre really pushing this RF extender - which I believe also - is a better solution to overcome walls.


Main objective was to get the Tivo's out of sight.

Next is to bring HD to each of the location.

- I have 1 Cat6 besides the coax out to each location - With the longest run being maybe 70' to the upstairs loft from the patch panel.

This would achieve having all of the Mini units in one central location...correct? Is that the goal or is it to simply have them out of sight?


I am not so sure of the dimensions of the Minis but barring you are wall mounting an LED or so couldn't you mount the unit behind the TV? Velcro or some other method? Its late and I may just be talking crazy talk but I am really intrigued with this design framework.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor  /t/1468530/control-multiple-tvs-via...set-rf-over-coax-budget-limited#post_23219753


Yes, we should expect so, which is why when the comparison and cost gets close anyway, go for the HDBaseT gear.

Hah - I was trying to find the words to verbalize my thoughts around this issue to my A/V guy.

Net-net, if the components are very marginal in price difference - always go with the higher performing one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownSouthAV  /t/1468530/control-multiple-tvs-via...set-rf-over-coax-budget-limited#post_23220690


Huh....I think I have just stumbled upon my anticipated solution for cable distribution throughout my new construction. I REALLY like the idea of the TiVo DVR coupled with the TiVo Minis

This would achieve having all of the Mini units in one central location...correct? Is that the goal or is it to simply have them out of sight?

Both!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DownSouthAV  /t/1468530/control-multiple-tvs-via...set-rf-over-coax-budget-limited#post_23220690


I am not so sure of the dimensions of the Minis but barring you are wall mounting an LED or so couldn't you mount the unit behind the TV? Velcro or some other method? Its late and I may just be talking crazy talk but I am really intrigued with this design framework.

I was thinking about that too - eliminate the extender cost but then the dimensions necessitate at least a 6" protrusion from the wall behind a wall mount TV.


Most LED/Plasma's these days are less than 2" deep & with a low profile tilting mount - add another max 2" & you are looking at only 4" of clearance.


Am I missing anything in that logic?


TiVo Mini Dimensions: 6.09" W x 6.09" D x 1.3" H. Weight: 0.78 lbs.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripleM  /t/1468530/control-multiple-tvs-via...set-rf-over-coax-budget-limited#post_23221968


Both!

I was thinking about that too - eliminate the extender cost but then the dimensions necessitate at least a 6" protrusion from the wall behind a wall mount TV.

Most LED/Plasma's these days are less than 2" deep & with a low profile tilting mount - add another max 2" & you are looking at only 4" of clearance.


Am I missing anything in that logic?

TiVo Mini Dimensions: 6.09" W x 6.09" D x 1.3" H. Weight: 0.78 lbs.

If you stick the Mini flat against the wall/TV (velcro!), it's only 1.3" thick... May need an IR repeater for the mini with the loss of line-of-sight, but for many mounts there can be enough space to work with. For the truly flat / flush mounts, the 8x10" recessed Arlington TV box outlet may provide a nice hidden solution.
 
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