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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all,


I have an old (2000) Panasonic 56" RPTV (PT-56WXF95A). The convergence is pretty messed up on it. You can set the convergence via a menu item, like so:




The problem I have is that for some reason I cannot see those smaller reference marks that are supposed to be on the outer edges of the screen. They seem to be cut off. Is there some way to adjust the screen so it isnt cropping those off?
 

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The outer marks you speak of are small arrows along the inner rim of the frame holding the screen in. Walk up to the TV and look for them in the middle of the top and left sides of the frame. This should get you going.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I need to take the front "frame" off? I cant see these tick marks/ arrows anywhere.


EDIT: the wife is watching ABC right now, teh ABC icon on the bottom right of the screen is slightly cut off, even on "full" aspect ratio or 4:3.
 

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Interesting. No need to remove anything. I guess my newer 2004 Panasonic has the tick marks. Just a thought; Zoom mode doesn't affect your menus appearance does it? Other than that, I have no other suggestions for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I assume its supposed to be showing the tick marks, but for some reason the set is displaying everything oversized, cutting the picture off. I have the service manual, but I cant make heads or tails of it, let alone find the setting for something that I dont even know the technical term for.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFusion /forum/post/15591020


I assume its supposed to be showing the tick marks, but for some reason the set is displaying everything oversized...

I have this Tv. The tick marks are indeed on the screen frame, they are not projected as part of the picture. The user menu only allows single/center point adjustment. You have to enter service mode to do multipoint, which is a highly difficult process to learn.


Back to your current problem- Did something suddenly change, has the Tv always been overscanning? Keep in mind there may also be settings in your cable/sat box for aspect ratio. Also each resolution you feed the Tv stores a different set of convergence values.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by hammerdwn /forum/post/15592948


I have this Tv. The tick marks are indeed on the screen frame, they are not projected as part of the picture. The user menu only allows single/center point adjustment. You have to enter service mode to do multipoint, which is a highly difficult process to learn.

I see, for some reason I thought the ticks where supposed to be projected. I managed to align the "green", but the instructions say to align the red cross with the white cross. However, I do not see any red cross, or blue cross for that matter. What I truly need to do is go into the service mode and do the complete adjustment. I just built an HTPC and even with HD @ 720p, the text is nearly illegible, especially at teh edges of the screen. I cant even get 1080i to work.


Here is the story with the TV. I got it for free from a guy who said the green crt tube was out. I loaded it into the back of my truck and moved it about 20 miles back to my shop. After a lot of testing with help from people in this forum (I think you, hammerdwn were one of the more helpful) i was able to come to the conclusion that it was the CRT driver board. It was replaced. The set stayed out in my garage/gameroom/shop and was used lightly. My wife and I finally purchased a house and the set was moved once again about another 20 miles. Now it is the main TV for the house, and I would like to get it setup right.


I just called the guy I got the TV from. He said he still has the alignment grid he made out of 3/16" plexi. I am going to run over and get it right now.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFusion /forum/post/15594942


I see, for some reason I thought the ticks where supposed to be projected. I managed to align the "green", but the instructions say to align the red cross with the white cross. However, I do not see any red cross, or blue cross for that matter. What I truly need to do is go into the service mode and do the complete adjustment. I just built an HTPC and even with HD @ 720p, the text is nearly illegible, especially at teh edges of the screen. I cant even get 1080i to work.


Here is the story with the TV. I got it for free from a guy who said the green crt tube was out. I loaded it into the back of my truck and moved it about 20 miles back to my shop. After a lot of testing with help from people in this forum (I think you, hammerdwn were one of the more helpful) i was able to come to the conclusion that it was the CRT driver board. It was replaced. The set stayed out in my garage/gameroom/shop and was used lightly. My wife and I finally purchased a house and the set was moved once again about another 20 miles. Now it is the main TV for the house, and I would like to get it setup right.


I just called the guy I got the TV from. He said he still has the alignment grid he made out of 3/16" plexi. I am going to run over and get it right now.

I have the same unit, the 65" version, and there's no better 7" triple-gun CRT on the market for HD. NOBODY does HD better than Panasonic! If you got it free, you STOLE that mother!


You have overscan, which is endemic to the genre. You can remedy this by using just the sm, or you can shim the CRT array UP, and toward the mirror, which will reduce the size of your pic to where you really want it. I did this to my 73" Mit and was amazed at the heightening of the crispness, allowing me to sit 20% closer to my set, for a 20% bigger picture, at exactly the same crispness level as before! It takes setting it up again from scratch afterwards, but MORE than worth it!


I can't do this to my 65" Panny because of having done the o'scan redux via sm years ago, and the footprint now embedded in the CRT faces. But if I had done it via the shimming method years ago instead, I woulda been a lot happier!


Have you done the anti-streaking mod? I had it done under warranty, but at Panny they are totally aware of the need for it, esp. in dark passages. It involves changing the capacitance on 1 cap in each socket board to one with 100x more capacitance, and works like a charm.


There was an email thread done years ago on your model, with suggestions all over the place on how to improve the pic on your set. That's how I learned about the streaking mod, even with numbers that Panny said I should not be in possession of! (I LOVED that...
)...


You have a verry fine unit there, I hope you get a pro on calibrating it for you, you won't be sorry.


Make sure your optical path is crystal clear also. Don't hire just anybody for that. The plastic lenses, like on all CRT RPTV tech, are super vulnerable and susceptible to being permanently scratched. And your mirror is a front surface/first surface mirror. Don't let just any yayhoo touch those 2 items. And that includes most repair techs.



b
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob /forum/post/15595706


I have the same unit, the 65" version, and there's no better 7" triple-gun CRT on the market for HD. NOBODY does HD better than Panasonic! If you got it free, you STOLE that mother!

Yeah, the guy thought it was going to be a several hundred dollar repair, plus calibration so he gave it away. It only ended up costing me 45 bucks for the new CRT driver board and a couple hours of my time figuring out what it was and getting the new board installed. I am extremely happy with the find!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob /forum/post/15595706


You have overscan, which is endemic to the genre. You can remedy this by using just the sm, or you can shim the CRT array UP, and toward the mirror, which will reduce the size of your pic to where you really want it. I did this to my 73" Mit and was amazed at the heightening of the crispness, allowing me to sit 20% closer to my set, for a 20% bigger picture, at exactly the same crispness level as before!

Tell me more about shimming. What type of shims are used? Is it a guess-and-check type of procedure or is there some science to the size of shim used? Where are the shims placed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob /forum/post/15595706


Have you done the anti-streaking mod? I had it done under warranty, but at Panny they are totally aware of the need for it, esp. in dark passages. It involves changing the capacitance on 1 cap in each socket board to one with 100x more capacitance, and works like a charm.

I havent done anything to the set, and I highly doubt the old owner did anything either. Is there a white paper/technical paper/instructions on doing this? I have noticed my set doesnt do blacks so well. I forget which movie it was, but it was two college students stranded out on some mountain road, and it was a very dark movie. It was nearly impossible to watch as the picture seemed completely black.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob /forum/post/15595706


There was an email thread done years ago on your model, with suggestions all over the place on how to improve the pic on your set. That's how I learned about the streaking mod, even with numbers that Panny said I should not be in possession of! (I LOVE that...
)...

I suppose this thread is lost to time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob /forum/post/15595706


You have a verry fine unit there, I hope you get a pro on calibrating it for you, you won't be sorry. Make sure your optical path is crystal clear also. Don't hire just anybody for that. The plastic lenses, like on all CRT RPTV tech, are super vulnerable and susceptible to being permanently scratched. And your mirror is a front surface/first surface mirror. Don't let just any yayhoo touch those 2 items. And that includes most repair techs.

I would love to do that, but I just simply cannot afford it. I know, I know, I cant afford not to... but several hundred dollars is just too much to spend right now. I tried posting up a craigslist add, hoping some ISF calibrator would be willing to exchanges services as I do computer/web programming, signs-graphics-apparel, and small engine repair. Not suprizingly, no one responded!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFusion /forum/post/15595929



Tell me more about shimming. What type of shims are used? Is it a guess-and-check type of procedure or is there some science to the size of shim used? Where are the shims placed?


Go to this thread, they are discussing it there -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post15596182



Quote:
I havent done anything to the set, and I highly doubt the old owner did anything either. Is there a white paper/technical paper/instructions on doing this? I have noticed my set doesnt do blacks so well. I forget which movie it was, but it was two college students stranded out on some mountain road, and it was a very dark movie. It was nearly impossible to watch as the picture seemed completely black.

Optics! They are dirty, that's all. That set is 8 years old, but could look like new with a crystal clear light path. That 30KV of HV really does a static cling number on the dust in the air, every minute the set has been on since new. Just don't allow any uninformed gorillas close to it...


Quote:
I suppose this thread is lost to time?

Send me an email, I'll see if I have anything I can forward you -

Quote:
I would love to do that, but I just simply cannot afford it. I know, I know, I cant afford not to... but several hundred dollars is just too much to spend right now. I tried posting up a craigslist add, hoping some ISF calibrator would be willing to exchanges services as I do computer/web programming, signs-graphics-apparel, and small engine repair. Not suprizingly, no one responded!

Sorry, Charlie, calibrators make their livings doing this stuff, you can't expect them to do it for next to nothing. You got it free! Spend at least what it SHOULDA cost you!



b
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob /forum/post/15596588


Optics! They are dirty, that's all. That set is 8 years old, but could look like new with a crystal clear light path. That 30KV of HV really does a static cling number on the dust in the air, every minute the set has been on since new. Just don't allow any uninformed gorillas close to it...

Optics have been cleaned, as per your instructions I do believe. Not positive, but I think it was you who emailed me instructions on cleaning the optics about a year ago, perhaps a bit longer. They are starting to get pretty dirty again tho. I think my set is missing a board. I can look directly thru the back of the set to the cans.. it almost looks like there is supposed to be a board that rides in a slot on either side and slips in, keeping dust from feely floating towards the cans? I suppose this would be in my service manual, but the copy I have stinks, the pictures are all black blobs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob /forum/post/15596588


Send me an email, I'll see if I have anything I can forward you -

Email sent! Thanks in advance for anything you can send.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob /forum/post/15596588


Sorry, Charlie, calibrators make their livings doing this stuff, you can't expect them to do it for next to nothing. You got it free! Spend at least what it SHOULDA cost you!

ahh what?? Dont I make my living doing programming/signage? I dont expect anyone to do it for next to nothing, never stated anything like that at all. With the economy the way it is right now, a lot of small businesses are seeing cash flow shrinkage, including mine. I was merely hoping a calibrator out there was in need of business cards, signage, programming, or custom apparel for his or her busines and didnt have the cash flow at this time to invest in those items.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFusion /forum/post/15596855


Optics have been cleaned, as per your instructions I do believe. Not positive, but I think it was you who emailed me instructions on cleaning the optics about a year ago, perhaps a bit longer. They are starting to get pretty dirty again tho.

I don't usually send such instros by email. If it was not me, I'd have to know more about what was done before I would expect the best optics cleaning possible...


Quote:
I think my set is missing a board. I can look directly thru the back of the set to the cans.. it almost looks like there is supposed to be a board that rides in a slot on either side and slips in, keeping dust from feely floating towards the cans? I suppose this would be in my service manual, but the copy I have stinks, the pictures are all black blobs.

Mine was missing too! I stretched a black T shirt across that opening -

Quote:
ahh what?? Dont I make my living doing programming/signage? I dont expect anyone to do it for next to nothing, never stated anything like that at all. With the economy the way it is right now, a lot of small businesses are seeing cash flow shrinkage, including mine. I was merely hoping a calibrator out there was in need of business cards, signage, programming, or custom apparel for his or her busines and didnt have the cash flow at this time to invest in those items.

Sorry, my comments rescinded.


I do believe in barter and would be glad to work with you if we could put something together. Just don't need anything you have right now... Where do you live? Let's see what we can at least try to put together -




b
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I did clean the optics last night. It was a full cleaning involving taking off the front screen and cleaning it, cleaning the cavity behind the screen, the lenses as per normal, and completely moving the back panel and attached glass mirror for a proper cleaning. That made an incredible difference. We just bought our first house, and don't even have curtains yet. I stuck some sheets over the windows for now (its embarrassingly "ghetto", but works), and the picture was actually too bright for our room, I had to turn the brightness down!


During cleaning, I did notice something rather disturbing. If you shine a light at the right angle into the cans, you can see a LOT of debris down inside them, past the top lens...dust, chunks of god knows what, etc. I am a very capable person, and pretty tech savvy. Is it possible to clean down inside there? What kinda can of worms am I looking at opening?


After cleaning, I went into the service mode and made my way to the convergence alignment for 480 (which is what our cable service is, we are on the waiting list for an HD receiver). Holy crap... I shoulda taken a picture. The center was OK, but to the left and right of center the alignment was so far off that by the outer edges of the set you could see three distinct lines (RGB) about 1/4" from each other, and by the extreme outer edges they were very distorted, not parallel to each other at all. The blue was much fatter than the rest of the lines. I adjusted the blue on the focus block, (the screen knobs are hot-glued in place) and that tightened it up a bit.


I put the alignment grid on the set and started with green, working my way thru each color. It is better, much better on the edges of the set, but it still isn't as good as I know it could be. I also did the convergence on 720p, which is what my HTPC is running at because 1080i is very twitchy or jumpy. Things on 720 are better, I can actually read the text on the desktop now, depending on where it is. Some places are clearer than others.


Is it safe to assume that I really need to do the focus tweaks first, then come back to convergence? Considering I do not have an oscilloscope, what is the best way to go about getting this set looking as good as I can? Where do I get these patterns that talk about in the service manual (monoscope, indian head, cross hatch, etc) and how do I display them?






I don't have to work until Monday, and I am literally setting aside the next several days to finally getting a watchable set and get the HTPC all set up. Any tips, tricks, and/or help is INSANELY appreciated!!!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFusion /forum/post/15614079


...If you shine a light at the right angle into the cans, you can see a LOT of debris down inside them, past the top lens...dust, chunks of god knows what...

Turn the Tv on while looking down into them and really see what's going on. Get a can of compressed air and shoot between the lens and the coolant chamber/crt. Air will get most of it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFusion /forum/post/15614079


...Is it safe to assume that I really need to do the focus tweaks first, then come back to convergence?

Ya

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFusion /forum/post/15614079


... Considering I do not have an oscilloscope, what is the best way to go about getting this set looking as good as I can?

Where do I get these patterns that talk about in the service manual (monoscope, indian head, cross hatch, etc) and how do I display them?

Ideally you want an HD pattern generator, amoung other professional calibration tools, and hours/days of dedication... But there is a calibration sub-forum here, it's a start. Lots of free test patterns for computers or burn to dvd/bluray or buy dve.
 
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