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I posted the following on the home cinema section of the forum:

Disappointingly my new Samsung 4K Blu-Ray player UHD-K8500 has only digital optical or HDMI audio out, rather than the Coax I would have liked. I am always a bit suspicious about the quality of optical TOSLINK, as the digital signal has to go through a digital to optical converter at the K8500 and then optical to digital converter at my DAC. Both of these can introduce jitter and errors. I was wondering if using the HDMI output might be a better idea and then an HMDI audio stripper, with a Coax output. The problem is that the ones on offer on Fleabay look like cheap Chinese rubbish to me, with one of their horrible fire-risk wall-wart power supplies.

Questions: Do folks think that a significantly better audio output would in theory be available from the HDMI? If so have they any suggestions as to a suitable HMDI audio to Coax converter. My audio setup is fairly high end with an Aqua Acoustic La Voce DAC, Meridian G02 pre-amp, Krell Evo 2250e power amp and then ATC SCM40-2 speakers + Monitor Audio Gold GXW15" sub.

Last year I added an M2Tech HiFace2 USB output reclocker between my Mac Mini media server and the DAC, with excellent results, in place of using the optical audio link. I was hoping using the HDMI and then a coax converter, might effect a similar improvement.


The only answers I got were along the line of a Harry Enfield sketch "you don't want to do it like that. You only got 2 channel audio (2 + a sub actually)? You will never get decent sound until you get at least 5.1 or 7.1 multichannel sound" and so on. I have absolutely no intention of installing surround sound but just want to get better sound from my two channel plus sub arrangement. Anyone got any sensible suggestions?

Wilson
 

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I posted the following on the home cinema section of the forum:

Disappointingly my new Samsung 4K Blu-Ray player UHD-K8500 has only digital optical or HDMI audio out, rather than the Coax I would have liked. I am always a bit suspicious about the quality of optical TOSLINK, as the digital signal has to go through a digital to optical converter at the K8500 and then optical to digital converter at my DAC. Both of these can introduce jitter and errors. I was wondering if using the HDMI output might be a better idea and then an HMDI audio stripper, with a Coax output. The problem is that the ones on offer on Fleabay look like cheap Chinese rubbish to me, with one of their horrible fire-risk wall-wart power supplies.

Questions: Do folks think that a significantly better audio output would in theory be available from the HDMI? If so have they any suggestions as to a suitable HMDI audio to Coax converter. My audio setup is fairly high end with an Aqua Acoustic La Voce DAC, Meridian G02 pre-amp, Krell Evo 2250e power amp and then ATC SCM40-2 speakers + Monitor Audio Gold GXW15" sub.

Last year I added an M2Tech HiFace2 USB output reclocker between my Mac Mini media server and the DAC, with excellent results, in place of using the optical audio link. I was hoping using the HDMI and then a coax converter, might effect a similar improvement.


The only answers I got were along the line of a Harry Enfield sketch "you don't want to do it like that. You only got 2 channel audio (2 + a sub actually)? You will never get decent sound until you get at least 5.1 or 7.1 multichannel sound" and so on. I have absolutely no intention of installing surround sound but just want to get better sound from my two channel plus sub arrangement. Anyone got any sensible suggestions?

Wilson

There CAN be problems with Toslink optical, but it usually performs well, if the optical connection is kept short (under 2 feet is best).

Try it and evaluate it before you knock it.

That is easy to do.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
There CAN be problems with Toslink optical, but it usually performs well, if the optical connection is kept short (under 2 feet is best).

Try it and evaluate it before you knock it.

That is easy to do.
I am using it at the moment. The problem is that the character of the music on Blu-Ray's, even the 4K ones, tends to be boomy and crashy, so I am not sure how susceptible to improvement it is. However, I am about to change the DAC in France from my current 8 year old Aqua Acoustic La Voce to a Benchmark Media DAC2L. This has a built in reclocking system for all the inputs and from reviews from various sources, is very incisive and detailed, which is where the Aqua is a bit lacking. I just hope the DAC2 does not lose the musicality and smoothness I get with the Aqua. The other advantage is that I can link 2 optical Toslink inputs to the DAC2L, whereas the Aqua only has one and I have an Intos Electronic optical switcher. The DAC2L also has a remote which the Aqua does not. I can also connect my Mac Mini direct from its USB to the DAC2L, rather than via an M2Tech HiFace2 reclocker and USB to Coax converter as the Aqua's USB input is only 44K/16bit, which was the standard 8 years ago. I will finally be able to play the few 192K/24bit tracks I have :)
 

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Hi, I see that there has been discussion related to my question already, so I am posting on the existing thread. Hope that's the proper etiquette.


I want to send hi-res (96 or 192) output from my disc player either to my receiver or a DAC (I am only interested in 2.0 LPCM). The receiver has HDMI input, the DAC coaxial and Toslink. The player has coaxial output, but apparently downsamples the signal to 48 kHz. I want to be able to send the hi-res signal to my DAC.


Would some sort of converter from HDMI to digital do the trick? Would it do a perfect digital conversion, not altering the signal or changing the sound? I am looking at products such as these:


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KRWYN4R/
https://www.amazon.com/HDMI-Audio-Extractor-Splitter-Converter/dp/B07DFDQ6HG/
https://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5557
http://www.ambery.com/au-hdmiarc.html
https://www.amazon.com/avedio-links-Switcher-Extractor-HDMI2-0b/dp/B07T2WSY3D/


Again, I want it to output 96 to 96 (or 192 to 192) unaltered, not downsampled, because the latter is what my player is doing already. I figure I should probably go with coaxial because I have read conflicting things about whether Toslink supports 192 kHz.


Thank you!


Mark
 

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I want to send hi-res (96 or 192) output from my disc player either to my receiver or a DAC (I am only interested in 2.0 LPCM)....
What's the make and model number of your 'disc player' and your 'receiver'?
 

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Again, I want it to output 96 to 96 (or 192 to 192) unaltered, not downsampled, because the latter is what my player is doing already. I figure I should probably go with coaxial because I have read conflicting things about whether Toslink supports 192 kHz.
You need to use something besides coax for this, S/PDIF (the format that both optical and coax use) tops out officially at 20/48 (but some hardware can achieve 24/48). HDMI can do up to 24/192 and DSD. HDMI, USB or a network connection are the best ways to transport high resolution audio without transcoding.
 

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You need to use something besides coax for this, S/PDIF (the format that both optical and coax use) tops out officially at 20/48 (but some hardware can achieve 24/48). HDMI can do up to 24/192 and DSD. HDMI, USB or a network connection are the best ways to transport high resolution audio without transcoding.

Thanks for the reply, but I am surprised to read that. When I play a FLAC file from USB via this player, over coaxial, my receiver reports that it is receiving 96 kHz. I have been using other DVD players for years that were connected via coaxial and my DAC would tell me that it was receiving a 96 kHz or 192 kHz signal. (The Wikipedia article you referenced doesn't say that S/PDIF tops out at 48, only that 48 is the "most common.")


It's when I play a 24/96 DVD-V disc that this player, unlike the others, does not maintain the 96 kHz sampling rate. This is disappointing to me because I have AIX discs and ones I have made myself using lplex. I would like to play them on this unit and get the hi-res output.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Now that I have changed my Aqua Acoustic DAC for a higher quality Benchmark Media DAC3L, the optical output from the Samsung UHD player is just fine. Aqua Acoustic made an error when they built my DAC to order and installed a 44K/16bit Optical receiver (bought from Pound Shop?). The heave of trying to get the large heavy object back to Italy, having to pay to have it upgraded and then pay again for the transit back to France, dissuaded me from doing it. The DAC had died in my bedroom/office so I moved the Aqua Acoustic in there, where it does just fine. The DAC3L has a very satisfactory jitter Ultralock ® system and in place of the 2 (Wolfson) DAC chips of the Aqua it has 8 Sabre ES9028PRO DAC Chips in a Dual Quad Balanced Array. It is a very noticeable upgrade on the Aqua.

Wilson
 

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If these files are on USB you can just plug the drive into the 8270, it should play them. According to the manual (Page 60) it supports AIFF, WAV and FLAC up to 24/192 and DSD up to 5.6 MHz

Also in the manual it supports the following formats via HDMI:
2-channel linear PCM: 32 kHz, 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 96 kHz, 176.4 kHz, 192 kHz, 16/20/24 bit

DSD: Supported sampling rates: 2.8 MHz
Your Blu-ray Disc/DVD player must also support HDMI output of the above audio formats.
I have the Integra cousin to your receiver and I've been impressed with the DAC, almost all of my music is digital and it's sounded good with everything I've thrown at it.


edit: I missed your reply while I was writing mine, that's surprising to me as well. Equipment is massively more powerful and less noisy now than when S/PDIF was developed in the 80s so I guess that makes sense.
 

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If these files are on USB you can just plug the drive into the 8270, it should play them. According to the manual (Page 60) it supports AIFF, WAV and FLAC up to 24/192 and DSD up to 5.6 MHz

Also in the manual it supports the following formats via HDMI:
I have the Integra cousin to your receiver and I've been impressed with the DAC, almost all of my music is digital and it's sounded good with everything I've thrown at it.

Thank you and I like the receiver too, but not all of the material I want to play is on USB. I want to be able to play these 24/96 discs and send 96 kHz to my Little Dot DAC, which is connected to a headphone amp. The Little Dot accepts coax and Toslink, but not HDMI. Since the Sony will not send 96 kHz over coax, will any of the units I described in my previous post do what I want? Will any of them convert the hi-res signal from HDMI to coax (or Toslink) preserving all audio quality and not changing the original signal?


Mark
 

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Player is Sony UBP-X800M2.
Receiver is Onkyo TX-8270 (but I see the same when the signal is sent instead to a Little Dot DAC_1).
According to Sony's and Onkyo's web sites, both of these devices support playback of hi-res audio files. So I recommend you connect them together via HDMI... Job done - provided they are both set-up correctly!
 

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Thank you and I like the receiver too, but not all of the material I want to play is on USB. I want to be able to play these 24/96 discs and send 96 kHz to my Little Dot DAC, which is connected to a headphone amp. The Little Dot accepts coax and Toslink, but not HDMI. Since the Sony will not send 96 kHz over coax, will any of the units I described in my previous post do what I want? Will any of them convert the hi-res signal from HDMI to coax (or Toslink) preserving all audio quality and not changing the original signal?
I've yet to see an "audio extractor" from a company I'd trust like HDFury but those things are so cheap maybe try one and see? It's possible you'll run into the same problem which is S/PDIF wasn't designed to support those formats, though. Just make sure you use the second HDMI output since most of those didn't look like they support 4k. The good news is when it changes the format it drops the least significant bits all of which are vastly above the Nyquist frequencies for human-perceivable audio.
 

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Thanks SeeMoreDigital and qirex for your kind replies. I took the plunge and ordered one of those converters and I may post again to report what happens. (I now realize that my initial post was ambiguous, and I'm sorry that it was, but I want to set up my system to make output available to both the receiver and the Little Dot DAC, possibly though not necessarily running simultaneously, because I want to be able to listen on my headphone amp connected to the DAC. Of course this raises the question of why I don't just listen on the headphone jack of the receiver, which actually sounds very nice to me, but never mind.)


As I said, I am disappointed that this unit apparently downsamples DVD-V output from 96 kHz to 48 kHz over coax. My old Sony DVP-NS500V didn't do that, nor did an old Panasonic. I think it's kind of ironic that this unit has a capability to upsample CDs (over coax) but does not preserve the original sampling rate of a 96 kHz DVD-V (over coax). I have taken this up with Sony customer support, and that is a learning experience in itself. My case has been "escalated" several times, and sent to second-level support (when I thought I was already there), but so far I have not spoken with anybody who knows anything. One rep told me that nothing higher than 48 kHz is supported over the coaxial output, when there is a control in the menu to choose 48, 96, or 192 as the max. Another rep told me that she sees in the manual that 16-bit BMP files are not supported. I asked her what BMP files are, and she didn't seem to know. To the best of my knowledge, BMP files are pictures, and we are talking about audio, so it's irrelevant!


In any case, I think that this is a genuine bug in the product. It may stem from the fact (if it is a fact) that Blu-ray discs may not be output at higher than 48 kHz over coaxial (which I think I read somewhere). But (even if that is true) that is not a justification for imposing such a limit on DVD-V. The player should output audio on a DVD-V disc encoded at 96 kHz over coaxial at 96 kHz. Or, at any rate, such is my view. I think that if it is possible for Sony to correct this via a software update then they should do so.


Thanks,


Mark
 
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