[adidino]

I'm confused about proper Xover settinga for a full range speaker. For example, you have a pair of speakers that are rated at 22Khz- 35Hz. Do you set your preamp or sub to a Xover at about the low end range of your mains (in this case 35-40Hz) or should you go higher (50-50Hz)? It's seems to me if you go much higher than what the speakers will handle on the low freq range, it's almost a waste to get a full ranger speaker. Why not just use book shelf?


To be honest, I don't know what is considered a rule of thumb here. I know it's usually what sounds best to the listener but there has to be starting point.


Any help is appreciated!


Tony

 

[DMF]

I've heard that an octave above the -3 dB rolloff point is about right. (That's usually the point that is specified as the range limit, but read closely.) An octave is double the frequency, so for 35 Hz it would be crossed over at 70 Hz, which probably doesn't exist as an option in a processor, so round down to 60 Hz which probably does. Don't use the crossover on the sub (if it has one) if the processor has one.


I've since some to think that is a bit too high. So my mains, capable of 32 Hz, are crossed at 40 Hz. Surrounds and center, capable of about 61 Hz are crossed at 80 Hz. Partly its a judgement call based on how good your subs are, too. The idea is that you want to relieve the amp driving the speaker from working so hard (and that bottom octave is tough for an amp) at what the subwoofer specializes in.


A waste to get a full-range? Maybe. Partly depends on your bass management subsystem (inside the processor) and your listening mix. Most music is still in stereo, and many people prefer to listen that way even if it's available multi-channel. Many people just use the 'analog bypass' feature where the mains must be full-range since the sub channel isn't driven.


But for HT, assuming you have a good sub (or two), true full-range speakers could be considered unnecessary.

 

[ekb]

If the speaker truly is full range then you don't need a sub for that channel and so you set the bass management such that that speaker is large.


If the speaker is not quite full range, say down to 30 Hz then you do need to set it to small in the bass management and choose a Xover. If you have a flexible pre/pro or receiver you can choose a low Xover for those speakers and a higher Xover for other less capable speakers. But most receivers only allow a single global Xover frequency and so it'll probably have to be set higher to accommodate the smallest speakers in the setup. So IMO (and others do disagree and this has been discussed a lot here) it is a waste to buy speakers that are not quite full range. That is - either get full range or get small.


Ed

 

[adidino]

Maybe a list of what I'm using might help. My preamp is very flexible.. I can control each channel in 5Hz intervals..


Anthem Statement D1

Thiel 2.4 for my mains Rated to 33Hz

Thiel Powerpoints for my rears Rate to 75Hz

Thiel MCS1 for Center rated to 50Hz

Velodyine DD-15 Sub


So what do you think guys? Seems like the more flexibility you get, the more confusing it becomes..

 

[cwb4tx]

from what I have HEARD, the big issue is matching well the sub to the speakers. I think the issue is phase matching and making sure you don't get a peak in freq where the sub and the mains add to each other (xover means roll off, not band sto...)


There are quite a few posts about how to locate best the sub (put it where you listen, walk around to find the peak level..) Once you get it located, try with/without sub to see how you like the addition of a sub. Then play with the xover to find the sweet spot.


Anyway, lots of experts here who could give better advice, hope my input is helpful to get you thinking and experimenting.


Curtis

 

[DMF]

Quote:

Originally posted by adidino So what do you think guys? Seems like the more flexibility you get, the more confusing it becomes..

Ahh .. yep!




Nice gear, btw.

 

[adidino]

no ideas guys?

 

[ekb]

Your Anthem D1 is a strange animal! Superficially it looks like it offers different crossovers for different speakers. But when it really come down to it, it does not do a good job of it. I don't remember all the details, but basically it's something like this: The high pass for all the speakers are OK. You can choose what you want. But the low pass does NOT match the high pass of the various channels. It's a single global frequency which means that you'll be causing frequency holes or overlap if you choose different Xovers for you different speakers. I'm not sure how many manufacturers are trying to do it right, but as far as I know, only Lexicon is doing something that seems to make sense.


But of course the other answer is to do it the THX way. That is, have ALL speakers do a good job down to 80 Hz and Xover all speakers at 80 Hz.


Ed

 

[adidino]

Setting everything to 80hz seems to be a waste of speaker for the fronts. Besides, the THX way also used book shelf, I've never seen a full range THX cert speaker.. biggest reason for such a high xover.

 

[klipsch]

Quote:

Correct Xover Settings for Full Range Speakers???

Depends on room, frequency fall offs, peaks, blah blah blah


It all depends on your set up.

 

[Mit07]

Tony - here is a recommendation. Set all speakers to small and the crossover at 80Hz. Listen to music and movies for a few weeks, and only AFTER you are very familiar with the sound - experiment with the crossover.


As you know, the DD15 is a wonderful sub, with the ability to dial in the bass to your rooms unique acoustics. I'd spend the majority of my time dialing this in before messing with the crossover. (BTW, if you do change the crossover, you will need to tweak the DD15 again.)


Finally, the issue over wasting a "full range" speaker with a 80Hz crossover is nonsense. There will always be endless amounts of debate on this subject, however, I will point out here that your tower fronts will have superior MIDBASS and seamlessly blend with your DD15 much better than most 2-way stand-mount speakers.


Experiment and enjoy.

 

[ekb]

Quote:

Originally posted by adidino Setting everything to 80hz seems to be a waste of speaker for the fronts.

Yes - that's why you need to buy a truly full range speaker and run it large without a Xover, OR, match all your satellites to a common Xover (like THX at 80 Hz), or get a pre/pro that can handle individual Xovers.
Quote:

Besides, the THX way also used book shelf, I've never seen a full range THX cert speaker.. biggest reason for such a high xover.

THX decided that this is a reasonable way to do it. It keeps things simple with a common, global Xover because you do run into problems with individual Xovers.


Ed

 

[nethomas]

Say ekb can you be a little more specific about the D1 crossovers being strange? I have a D1 and I'm not sure I understand what you are talking about. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just have an inquiring mind. Thanks

NETHOMAS

 

[cwb4tx]

I think he meant that you can adjust the low end cutoff of the speakers uniquely (i.e. all can be different) however you can only set one high end cutoff to the Sub.


This would mean that setting the rears (or center) to a higher low end cutoff (than the mains) would create unwanted overlap or gaps with the sub as it can only have one high end cutoff value.


(ekb, did I get you right?)


Curtis

 

[ekb]

Quote:

Originally posted by cwb4tx (ekb, did I get you right?)

Yes - exactly right.


Mind you - getting it done right is not a simple task since you start to get real weird phase problems (with corresponding amplitude irregularities) if you combine bass signals from different channels that are all low-passed at different frequencies. I think this is why Anthem took the easy route. Lexicon tries to do some very elaborate bass management though.


There was a thread quite a while ago that I started about flexible crossovers in receivers. I posted some plots from calculations that I did too. If I get the time I'll look for it and post the link. And there were a lot of very good comments from very knowledgable members.


Ed

 

[ekb]

Here's the link to the thread that I mentioned above : Individual Xover thread.

Ed

 

[adidino]

Great article.. Looks like 70Hz might be a good starting point.. perhaps a perminent one.. We'll see..