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Credibility of "Professional" Speaker Reviews dealt a Death Blow

16558 Views 168 Replies 49 Participants Last post by cistercian, Sep 21, 2019

mpk1970

Discussion Starter · Aug 9, 2019 (Edited)

Credibility of "Professional" Speaker Reviews dealt a Blow??

I'm on a Tekton Facebook group. This review came up with a lot of comments.
This "professional" reviewer named Ron did one review of the Tekton Impact Mondel (approx $2,000/pr) months ago, then came back and finished his review just a couple days ago...
Find it here

Around the 3:30 mark things get weird.

I'm sum it up:

-Reviewers paid by Manufacturers it appears
-Bad/Neutral reviews probably mean manufacturers didnt pay reviewer or speakers really bad
-Very good reviews mean manufacturers paid the reviewer very well

For me, I will NOT put any credibility to a professional review.

My trusted source moving forward, will be from everyday guys like us who buy/review speakers and write the experience in forums like AVSforum. The more of us that can review a certain brand/model of speakers of our opinions the better we can be informed.

Reactions: 5

1 - 20 of 169 Posts

Russdawg1

· #2 · Aug 9, 2019

I was gonna say, you missed the earlier thread Mike.

But you have a summary! Props to you.
@gajCA is this the recap you were requesting?

Reactions: 3

rhelliott2

· #3 · Aug 9, 2019

I agree %100

I will not subscribe to new record day anymore.

I almost donated to his patreon.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Reactions: 2

Zorba922

· #4 · Aug 9, 2019

I've always been very skeptical of speaker/audio reviews in general. Would trust a sum total perception of anecdotal non-pro reviews from longtime members of enthusiast forums over them any day. (Shill reviewers do pop up from time to time, unfortunately.)

Reactions: 5

SmittyJS

· #5 · Aug 9, 2019

Trust data, not people.

Reactions: 5

djp2k7

· #6 · Aug 9, 2019 (Edited)

Thanks for posting. That was fascinating! Those emails from Eric - wow!!! I want to point out a couple things though. In the first email Eric said he's never been asked to have to pay for a review before and was surprised that he was asked.

Also, although this was a paid review, Ron made very clear the upper midrange issue and the cabinet resonances. So I'm not quite following your summary Mike. Unless you're implying that Tekton did not pay Ron well enough so hence the negatives in the review. I don't believe that. This seemed like an honest paid review. Am I missing something?

Zero Fidelity has a video titled Hi-Fi Reviewers can you trust them. It's pretty interesting. He talks about professional reviewers, publications, forum reviews, and youtube reviewers. At about 8:35 he discusses forum reviews and says that numerous manufacturers took note years ago of how influential forum reviews were and this led to many people being shills and on the take in forums, particularly one unmentioned forum. I assume it's AVS.

See less See more

Reactions: 5

viorel

· #7 · Aug 9, 2019

SmittyJS said:
Trust data, not people.

Data is true as long as you understand and trust how it was produced, and understand what may have been omitted (on purpose or not). Sometimes we are presented with the results of a flawed experiment, or statistics from a less than random set. At times, we just don’t understand statistics, despite our strong belief that we do. That’s equally true for producers and consumers of the data.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Reactions: 5

hodgjy

· #8 · Aug 9, 2019

I learned years ago to never trust reviews from people who received payment, the item for free, or (web pages) who receive advertising money from manufacturers for the products they're reviewing. I trust the hobbyists who take the time to post impressions on forums, such as this one.

Reactions: 3

Zorba922

· #9 · Aug 9, 2019

viorel said:
Data is true as long as you understand and trust how it was produced, and understand what may have been omitted (on purpose or not). Sometimes we are presented with the results of a flawed experiment, or statistics from a less than random set. At times, we just don’t understand statistics, despite our strong belief that we do. That’s equally true for producers and consumers of the data.

So true.

I'd add that we should all be on guard against any claims of 100% certainty and "objectivity"...much better to approach things from a fluid, agnostic "probable/improbable" lens than a rigid "true/false" one.

Nowadays people apply the same naive, dog-like faith to "science" that they used to apply to institutionalized religion.

Basically, a very regressive and infantile hunger for the affirmation and security of paternalistic authority.

Not only with regards to this hobby, but in the much larger scheme of things.

Reactions: 5

Molon_Labe

· #10 · Aug 9, 2019 (Edited)

djp2k7 said:
Thanks for posting. That was fascinating! Those emails from Eric - wow!!! I want to point out a couple things though. In the first email Eric said he's never been asked to have to pay for a review before and was surprised that he was asked.

Also, although this was a paid review, Ron made very clear the upper midrange issue and the cabinet resonances. So I'm not quite following your summary Mike. Unless you're implying that Tekton did not pay Ron well enough so hence the negatives in the review. I don't believe that. This seemed like an honest paid review. Am I missing something?

Zero Fidelity has a video titled Hi-Fi Reviewers can you trust them. It's pretty interesting. Linked below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r_ny7jC5aQ

I began watching it until he warned that this was an adult video with adult language, so if you don't like it then leave. I obliged him. I am not sure when adult became synonymous with foul. Maybe I am just getting old, but being an adult and professional language were always synonymous in my book. Apparently, that has changed.

Reactions: 5

mmiles

· #11 · Aug 9, 2019

First most important most if not all “professional reviewers” have day jobs that are NOT related to AV.

Next they get to keep great gear for months.

Last if they like it they can buy often for 65-70% off MSRP.

I am not saying this is the standard for all. In the past I have met with a few that have magazine following as well as discussed the “necessity “ of having reviews with manufacturers.

Both sides offer interesting insight...

Reactions: 4

mpk1970

Discussion Starter · #12 · Aug 9, 2019 (Edited)

djp2k7 said:
Thanks for posting. That was fascinating! Those emails from Eric - wow!!! I want to point out a couple things though. In the first email Eric said he's never been asked to have to pay for a review before and was surprised that he was asked.

Also, although this was a paid review, Ron made very clear the upper midrange issue and the cabinet resonances. So I'm not quite following your summary Mike. Unless you're implying that Tekton did not pay Ron well enough so hence the negatives in the review. I don't believe that. This seemed like an honest paid review. Am I missing something?

Zero Fidelity has a video titled Hi-Fi Reviewers can you trust them. It's pretty interesting. He talks about professional reviewers, publications, forum reviews, and youtube reviewers. At about 8:35 he discusses forum reviews and says that numerous manufacturers took note years ago of how influential forum reviews were and this led to many people being shills and on the take in forums, particularly one unmentioned forum. I assume it's AVS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r_ny7jC5aQ

My summary wasn't really mean to deal with the findings of the speakers- what was good, what was bad- rather to focus on the paid/not paid status of reviewers. Also, on FB Tekton group chat, Eric posted some things additional about this Ron guy. I don't know who to believe other than the fact, money was somehow involved and Ron may/may not have been completely paid. I don't know seems like a drama that should've been worked out by both not brought into the open.

Reactions: 4

HarleyRider

· #13 · Aug 9, 2019

viorel said:
Data is true as long as you understand and trust how it was produced, and understand what may have been omitted (on purpose or not). Sometimes we are presented with the results of a flawed experiment, or statistics from a less than random set. At times, we just don’t understand statistics, despite our strong belief that we do. That’s equally true for producers and consumers of the data.

As Mark Twain said (which he attributed to Benjamin Disraeli), "There are 3 kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Reactions: 5

Lp85253

· #14 · Aug 9, 2019 (Edited)

djp2k7 said:
Thanks for posting. That was fascinating! Those emails from Eric - wow!!! I want to point out a couple things though. In the first email Eric said he's never been asked to have to pay for a review before and was surprised that he was asked.

Also, although this was a paid review, Ron made very clear the upper midrange issue and the cabinet resonances. So I'm not quite following your summary Mike. Unless you're implying that Tekton did not pay Ron well enough so hence the negatives in the review. I don't believe that. This seemed like an honest paid review. Am I missing something?

Zero Fidelity has a video titled Hi-Fi Reviewers can you trust them. It's pretty interesting. He talks about professional reviewers, publications, forum reviews, and youtube reviewers. At about 8:35 he discusses forum reviews and says that numerous manufacturers took note years ago of how influential forum reviews were and this led to many people being shills and on the take in forums, particularly one unmentioned forum. I assume it's AVS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r_ny7jC5aQ

yeah , this guy(zero fidelity) doesn't suck , he seems to be a true "hobbyist" with decent motives.. i like his vids

.... edit: my personal take on the reviewer's video.. that guy is a mess.. i wouldn't believe his reviews.. i've seen a few of his reviews before and a take him as a less credible darker more messed up version of zeos.. to me at least zeos is fun..

Reactions: 2

gajCA

· #15 · Aug 9, 2019

Russdawg1 said:
I was gonna say, you missed the earlier thread Mike.

But you have a summary! Props to you.
@gajCA is this the recap you were requesting?

It seems there was a lot more drama than in Mike's brief summary.

I have a hard time believing WhatHiFi wasn't paid the proper amount when they panned the KLH Albanys!

There lukewarm review was actually kind!

Looks like I'm going to have to watch the whole darned video as it entertained Rich Craig of Selah and Dennis Murphy of Salk.

I doubt those guys paid for their pro reviews.

Reactions: 1

madhuski

· #16 · Aug 9, 2019

always seems to be drama surrounding Tekton

Reactions: 4

aarons915

· #17 · Aug 9, 2019

Subjective reviews are always going to be worthless unless they're comparing the speaker to other well regarded speakers in a somewhat scientifically controlled manner, ie level matched, A/B back and forth quickly, preferably blind.

Reactions: 4

RayGuy

· #18 · Aug 9, 2019

Trust your own ears. That is all ...

Reactions: 5

Elihawk

· #19 · Aug 9, 2019

Properly presented data DOESN'T lie. Now, improperly corrected data sure can! We need to know the methods of collection of data and we need to know the equipment/space used to collect data. And we need to know the credibility of the reviewer, which is the tough...

Reactions: 3

Dave in Green

· #20 · Aug 9, 2019

If we cease trusting all professional reviewers because of a few rotten apples then we should apply the same logic to other groups such as amateur reviewers on forums. It's well known that some amateur forum reviewers are actually social influencers who shill for certain products in return for being paid off with free products they get to keep, so the rotten apples logic applies here as well. But of course many of us are intelligent enough to be able to sort out the less credible in every group and not lump everyone together as guilty by group association. So, nothing really new here. It all falls under the old category of caveat emptor and taking the time to educate oneself on being an informed consumer.

Reactions: 5

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