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Discussion Starter #1
I've been working with a local CI to do audio distribution for my home as well as running wire for future video distribution if we want it.


I am focusing on future expandability but also am trying to stick to a budget. The CI has mentioned a couple of times that I really may want to consider moving away from the Adagio system and go with separate pieces for the distribution.


The current plan is to use Adagio to distribute audio to 6 zones that will be controlled by two Crestron touchpanels. There will be an A/V receiver in the rack for our basement 5.1 system and an A/V receiver located in the family room for that 5.1 system. We are planning on using the Crestron system on a handheld remote to control the basement and I'll probably just use a regular universal remote or harmony for the family room.


My CI says that the benefit to the Adagio system over the separates is almost exclusively on the programming side of things as the hardware itself will be comparable. He feels confident that if I can stretch for separates now I'll be much happier down the road as I look to expand the system.


It is kind of vague to me what future benefits separates will have over the Adagio system and I was wondering if people around here have any thoughts. I certainly would prefer to save the money on Adagio but I'm concerned about limiting myself and regretting this decision in the future.


Thanks for the help
 

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The Adagio does not have a full power processor. IIRC it is 67 MIPS vs. 257 MIPS in the full processors. Numbers may be off, but should be close. Depending on what you may want to do in the future, it may not have the power.


I am currently running 6 Audio Zones, 6 TSTAT's, IDOC, 2 APAD's and 2 TPMC-10's and have no issues. Scrolling for the IPOD on the TP's is slow, but that is about it.
 

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Hi,

What Adagio components are you looking to purchase? The AADS (Adagio Audio Distribution System), the AES (Adagio Entertainment System) the AMS (Adagio Media System)?


If you give more details on the Adagio setup, touch panels, etc I will be more than happy to assist.


James

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Digital Studio Werks

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Discussion Starter #4
I'm currently looking at the AES with Sirius and the Ipod connector for 6 zones , the TPS6L, and the TPS4L.


I think for what I'm currently going to use it for the Adagio will be enough, but I'm wondering in the future if I'd be able to add other parts and still have use for the Adagio or if it would become wasted equipment when I want to buildout the system. I think the max number of audio zones in my home is 12 but I'm not sure what kind of video distribution and control I may want in the future.


I may also want lighting control in the future but again, I wonder if I can add the hardware for that down the road and still use the Adagio for the audio distribution even if I build out the system.


Thanks a lot.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ks-man /forum/post/14340381


I'm currently looking at the AES with Sirius and the Ipod connector for 6 zones , the TPS6L, and the TPS4L.


I think for what I'm currently going to use it for the Adagio will be enough, but I'm wondering in the future if I'd be able to add other parts and still have use for the Adagio or if it would become wasted equipment when I want to buildout the system. I think the max number of audio zones in my home is 12 but I'm not sure what kind of video distribution and control I may want in the future.


I may also want lighting control in the future but again, I wonder if I can add the hardware for that down the road and still use the Adagio for the audio distribution even if I build out the system.


Thanks a lot.

You did not mention the size of the house (SQFT) but for what you want to do above you are fine. With the AES you can add a AAE (Adagio Audio Expanders) for a total of up to 12 zones of Audio. As far as lighting goes you can Use the AES along with a infiNET Gateway (C2N-MNETGW) and inifiNET light switch for lighting, HVAC using the infiNET Thermostat (CHV-TSTATRF) and any AV equipment you may have using the IR, Serial and Ethernet ports you have on the back of the AES. The AES is a Multi-Zone audio distribution AND it is also has a Crestron control system built in.


As far as future upgrades if you stay with Crestron you can always use the AES for audio distribution and integrate a AV2 or Pro2 controller IF NEEDED.


If you go with separates you will still need to buy a universal remote, and if you want lighting a lighting system (Crestron/Lutron) for lighting, etc.


With the Adagio system you mentioned above you get multi-zone audio, lighting control, AV system control, HVAC control, even shade and drape control using Cresnet.


I would stick with the Adagio. Like I said even if you "Upgrade" in the future you will still be able to use the AES for audio distribution.


Hope that helps. If you have any further questions let me know. I will be happy to help.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the help.


I like the idea of sticking with the Adagio but I'm such a sucker when I hear the words "this other option will give me more upgrade options in the future."


I guess if my CI does recommend I go with separates I will try and decipher exactly why he feels I should and get more specifics on how I could be limited with Adagio.
 

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Keep the Adagio for the basics, don't put a lot on the system other than music and some other "light" automation.


With Crestron separates you get a more powerful processors and the amps are more powerful. You have the ability to go to whatever level you want with the separates. That being said, the Adagio is an awesome piece for many applications...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by roddymcg /forum/post/14347682


With Crestron separates you get a more powerful processors and the amps are more powerful.

If you are looking for background music, the amps in the Adagio are fine. I have six zones with 2 of them running 4 speakers in parallel and I have no problems.


If I want to crank the tunes at the pool, then the amps in the Adagio show their limitations, but those time are few and far between.
 

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Ok, here's why I like the opposite approach. I always recommend a PRO2.


I really like the front panel diagnostics. Idiot lights are your friend, it really can save a bunch of time running down the cause of a bit of trouble.


Its nice to work with product that doesn't say Crestron on the front. OK, call me an audio snob but you can't tell me its the best sounding choice for audio equipment. If the whole house is $300 ceiling speakers that's one thing, but when you start to mix in the really nice sounding stuff it makes a difference.


I like to be able to EQ on a room by room basis.


I like to be able to adjust amplifier gain so that each room has a similar audio range.


When I go out to service an amplifier, its nice not to have to shut the whole system down for a week. Speaking of which, you might want to talk to your integrator about his policy on spares and warranty service. Does he have an extra Adagio, if your just controlling the stereo this may not be a big deal, if your running whole home systems or even the main TV, it might. Its pretty easy to substitute a backup processor, he may even have one of those on hand.


I've used the additional card slots during more than one upgrade. It was nice not to have to sell a new system.


Updating channel lineups and lighting control scenes on a CF card is very, very handy.


I find its easier to isolate potential surge related damage with separate components.


Eight rooms is a much better fit for my projects than 6.


my .02


jcmitch
 

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I'm a pretty experienced Crestron programmer and designer and I would say this:


Adagio is good at doing what it says on the tin, a few zones of audio, source control and that's about it. If you want to start doing more complex things (possibly in the future) like HVAC, proper integration type stuff it might start showing its limitations.


My personal preference would be to go for a CP2E with an AAE (Adagio Audio Expander).
 

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what price points are we talking about here if ne were to go aes/aads for control of separate processor like cp2, pro2, etc.) im trying to decide with way is more cost effective for a minimalist system such as the above. is it true programming costs will be much higher if using pro2, cp3, etc than by simply using adagio line?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony A. /forum/post/14852574


what price points are we talking about here if ne were to go aes/aads for control of separate processor like cp2, pro2, etc.) im trying to decide with way is more cost effective for a minimalist system such as the above. is it true programming costs will be much higher if using pro2, cp3, etc than by simply using adagio line?

Make an appointment with your Crestron dealer. These are questions you should be asking him/her. Especially price point/features. As a Crestron dealer I do not like to give pricing, even MSRP, on line. Visiting a Crestron dealer allows you to ask all the questions you have, see a demo of the different systems (Adagio, Pro2, CP2E, etc) and see how they work, what one has over the other, etc. Once you are there visiting with a dealer you can also ask about programming. The difference in programming a Adagio vs a Pro2, programming a XPanel, TP, etc, time, cost, difficulty, etc.
 

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i understand. i have spoken briefly with my ci (who will be selling me the lutron homeworks system and do all the necessary programming). however, i would like to get an idea of what a system will cost me before i go in next. if i decide to go crestron, then no doubt i will seek all his advice and have him do everything, but i may end up using another solution if price is too much for me, hence why i ask some msrp prices. if you don't feel comfortable posting them i understand, if you don't mind sending me them via pm, i would greatly appreciate.
 

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You'll need a whole lot more information than this to price out a complete system...An Adagio system will be less, for example, an AES system controller and a PRO2 processor alone are priced within $100 of each other (each is less than $4000). Programming can vary greatly. There are some configurations for an Adagio system that will fit the "Out of the Box" programming scheme, basically prebuilt systems that need addressing and room IDs. There is no such thing for a separates system, programming is left to the integrator. The big upside to Crestron is flexibilty, it also makes it difficult to compare to other systems. Apples to Apples isn't possible. The second challenge is that the end result is entirely dependent on the skills of your integrator. The parts are only half of the story. You really need to shop for your installer, not the parts, in a Crestron setup.


jcmitch
 

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Ask your dealer to price up a system based on the Adagio AES and then price up a comparable system but instead of using the AES, use a CP2E and an AAE in combination.


See what he comes back with. Functionally they two system should be pretty much comparable but the CP2E will afford you some extra flexibilty.


Also what interfaces are you going for? APAD, TPS-4L or something else?
 

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initially i would have liked to go for 3 inwall panels, but considering their price points i will only start with 2 and then in the future either add a third or get a wireless panel. the ones i was looking at were the tpmc-8l (or possibly 1 of the smaller tps-6l for the bedroom).

since i need video switching (composite for security cameras), i guess i would need to add a video switcher to the mix. the crestron ones are much more than i need and more $$$ than i would like to spend simply for a few composite inputs, so i've been rethinking the entire setup. what i have come up with is using an elan 8.6avp controller (6 zones, 8 inputs both stereo and comp. video with loops, doorbell input and music hold output) for all the switching needs. it has an rs232 port so it can be controlled with a crestron processor. now i appreciate the advice on the suggested crestron processor. i think this would probably be my best bet in terms of future expandability as well as being able to add other brands of equipment to the mix (since i add and remove multiple source components throughout the year). so the cp2e has 3 com ports and 8 ir/serial. does the ir/serial basically do the exact thing the com ports do only you use an adaptor to send the signal? if this is the case, then technically i can connect 11 devices to this processor and get 2 way control, correct?


ps. since the dealer i am working with is also doing the lutron homeworks programming and is an elan dealer as well, i think he would be able to integrate everything together quite easily.
 

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Hey there,


The CP2E does indeed have 3 com ports, these are capable of two way RS-232/485 and 422 control. The IR ports are one way only. You can use them to control IR devices or configure them to control RS-232 device but only one way (you will get no feedback if you use these ports as RS-232).


Another configuration you might want to ask about a CP2E Crestron Processor with a Speakercraft MZC-66 (they do both larger and smaller versions).


The MZC-66 is RS-232 controllable (but requires an additional RSA box) and it does 6 stereo audio and 6 composite sources to 6 outputs. This is a combination that I have used in the past with great success and it provides a hybrid package whilst still getting that all important Crestron processor in there.
 

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ahh, okay now i understand. so if i ever want to expand, would the cheapest expansion module be the qm-rmc (additional 2 com ports)?


or elan offers an ss1 brain controller that plugs into the s8.6 preamp. could this then be added to one of the com ports on the cp2e but essentially the ss1 has like 10 com ports that it can control? if this is possible, i assume the integrater would need to program it this way?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony A. /forum/post/14864033


ahh, okay now i understand. so if i ever want to expand, would the cheapest expansion module be the qm-rmc (additional 2 com ports)?


or elan offers an ss1 brain controller that plugs into the s8.6 preamp. could this then be added to one of the com ports on the cp2e but essentially the ss1 has like 10 com ports that it can control? if this is possible, i assume the integrater would need to program it this way?

Not sure if thats possible, I have no experience of the elan equipment, but I'll have a look around when I get a minute.


Just having a quick look at it right now...


It looks to me like the Elan system is a controls package in it's own right?? But having no experience I have no idea how programmable/configurable it is...on the face of it would seem odd to have both Crestron and Elan on one system but assuming the Elan is fully programmable then there's no reason you couldnt get the two talking to each other.
 

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i'll have to ask my ci. he told me that he can use a hai processor with crestron touchpanels. seems to be reasonable, especially for the price. can anyone confirm this as being possible and perhaps the same holds true if i were to use elan controller?

i was also wondering if anyone could tell me if its possible for me to use a pc as a source with a serial connection (that links to crestron/hai processor for 2 way feedback), and i am able to use the touchpanel like a pc monitor to control things such as itunes, etc. basically the pc would be a source in which case i can make it a media server. is this possible at all?
 
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