[howdydoody]

I am in the Dallas area. I have a relatively sophisticated Crestron / Lutron system that was installed several years ago. Recent attempts to contact my custom installation company to program new equipment I have purchased and fix existing programming have gone unanswered. They are still in business, but I have left numerous phone calls, sent multiple emails and even a certified letter without a response. I have always paid my bills and have spent between 100 and 200k over the last many years on their labor and programming costs. I have never had a dispute or failed to pay my bills on time. Is businees that good that those in the CI field can afford to neglect prior relationships?


Kevin

 

[QQQ]

Hello Kevin,


Do you have the programming files for your system? if so you can have another company take over. If not, you need to demand them.

 

[howdydoody]

I do not have the programming. I have tried to contact them via phone, email and mail for nearly three months with no response. How do you suggest I get the programming?

 

[howdydoody]

I have just sent the owner of the CI company a link to this thread encouraging him to respond. I am hoping that a public forum will encourage his participation.

Kevin

 

[Syphon Filter]

You could try visiting their offices so you can talk to someone face to face?


As has been mentioned you need to ask for your program source files and any modules etc required for it to work (ask for an "archive" of the Simpl Windows program). Also make sure you get all the source for the graphical layouts of any interface you may have (ask for all your "VTP" files).


Once you have these you can go to anbother dealer or even an independent programmer if you wish. Before jumping to conclusions though, I would wait to speak to the dealer, there maybe a reasonable explanation as to what is going on and why they have not been in touch. Give him the benefit of the doubt. If you get nowhere then walk away (after you get your program files!).

 

[stefuel]

A certified letter that was signed for is a good indication that they are still there. Odd that they won't respond to a paying customer.

ROAD TRIP...

If they can't for whatever reason take on the required work, they should have no problem providing the required files for someone else to take over. Just make sure you know exactly what to ask for in advance.


After forking over that much money and being blown off for three months and counting would really piss me off.

 

[QQQ]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Syphon Filter /forum/post/16958922


Before jumping to conclusions though...Give him the benefit of the doubt.

Jumping to conclusions

? He said he's tried to reach them for three months and they won't even respond.

 

[Syphon Filter]



Quote:
Originally Posted by QQQ /forum/post/16958998


Jumping to conclusions

? He said he's tried to reach them for three months and they won't even respond.

Ah I missed that, time to vote with your feet and wallet my friend.


Get your source files and walk.

 

[howdydoody]

Okay. With some persistance I was able to get ahold of the owner today. We had a good long amiable talk. This is what I learned. The recession is over. He is too busy with new installs to provide my automation support. He indicated that he is busy with new installs and that with his business model he can make more money with new installations because he is able to make 40% or so on the hardware in addition to labor and programming charges. I am more of an enthusiast than his typical customer. His typical customer leaves all hardware decisions to him and he sells Runco, Kaleidescape etc. I like to pick out my own hardware. A few months ago, I sold my G90 and bought a JVC RS20 from AVS. I hung it myself (although need the RS 232 programming). I bought the 15k Denon pre-amp and power amp combo and need the programming and installation. I could install myself, but am willing to pay. I offered to pay extra for labor and programming, but that is not his business model. He is committed too far into the future to be able to promise to help me.


He does indicate that he will give my source code to a local company of ex-crestron employees (? Pantech?).


He also indicated that he would tie up the loose ends from unfinished work from November. I am concerned about Lutron hardware support as I have always bought from them and am not aware if this can be bought online.


If anyone that does custom installation / Crestron / Lutron is having issues finding customers, it appears to me that Dallas/Ft Worth is underserved.


Kevin

 

[ifor]

Sounds like it's time for you to go elsewhere.


Don't put any blame on anyone, get the files and call Crestron for other dealer suggestions.

 

[Joelc]

As a business owner and general manager of my company I find his response insulting and unacceptable...it is no way to run a business by:


i) ignoring existing / repeat clients

ii) ignoring clients when times are good

iii) advising clients as to your profit margins and saying 'I do not make enough off of you" (i.e. were it me the next round of negotiations with him would nt be fun for him)

iv) and, being arrogant


because, when his business is down, as all businesses eventually are due to the cyclical nature he will wish he were more attentive to you.


It is my experience that service service service always results in larger profits over the long and we always do our best to avoid the easy and fast dollar should it mean compromising our service level.


Just my thoughts...

 

[David Richardson]

I'm not in the Dallas area but I would ask for all the code up to this point. I would walk in and ask for it on CD with a programmer there making sure you have all the code.


There is some truth to what he is telling you BUT to a point. Service and upgrades come into play at some point it with all clients.


Most dealers feel in general, if you buy online you are on your own. Something to keep in mind.


BTW -Any Lutron dealer can support your Lutron equipment.

 

[howdydoody]

Joelc,

I agree with you to a large extent. I can't help but think that one ought to be able to scale up ones business to meet the needs of a local community.

Kevin

 

[stefuel]

He won't do it but is dictating who he will allow to do it? I would think that choice should be yours. Tell him you'd like all your files and you will choose a suitable replacement programmer your self. About this time, I'd be thumbing through the L's in the yellow pages

 

[taker]



Quote:
Originally Posted by howdydoody /forum/post/16962890


Okay. With some persistance I was able to get ahold of the owner today. We had a good long amiable talk. This is what I learned. The recession is over. He is too busy with new installs to provide my automation support. He indicated that he is busy with new installs and that with his business model he can make more money with new installations because he is able to make 40% or so on the hardware in addition to labor and programming charges. I am more of an enthusiast than his typical customer. His typical customer leaves all hardware decisions to him and he sells Runco, Kaleidescape etc. I like to pick out my own hardware. A few months ago, I sold my G90 and bought a JVC RS20 from AVS. I hung it myself (although need the RS 232 programming). I bought the 15k Denon pre-amp and power amp combo and need the programming and installation. I could install myself, but am willing to pay. I offered to pay extra for labor and programming, but that is not his business model. He is committed too far into the future to be able to promise to help me.


He does indicate that he will give my source code to a local company of ex-crestron employees (? Pantech?).


He also indicated that he would tie up the loose ends from unfinished work from November. I am concerned about Lutron hardware support as I have always bought from them and am not aware if this can be bought online.


If anyone that does custom installation / Crestron / Lutron is having issues finding customers, it appears to me that Dallas/Ft Worth is underserved.


Kevin

I didn't know the recession was over....

 

[Syphon Filter]



Quote:
Originally Posted by howdydoody /forum/post/16962890


He does indicate that he will give my source code to a local company of ex-crestron employees (? Pantech?).

UNACCEPTABLE!!!


Your source code and graphics files should be given to you...do not accept anything less. None of this "dealer of his choosing" ********.

 

[Syphon Filter]



Quote:
Originally Posted by David Richardson /forum/post/16963300


BTW -Any Lutron dealer can support your Lutron equipment.

Assuming they have not changed the password from the standard "jetski"...

 

[ifor]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelc /forum/post/16963260


As a business owner and general manager of my company I find his response insulting and unacceptable...it is no way to run a business by:


i) ignoring existing / repeat clients

ii) ignoring clients when times are good

iii) advising clients as to your profit margins and saying 'I do not make enough off of you" (i.e. were it me the next round of negotiations with him would nt be fun for him)

iv) and, being arrogant


because, when his business is down, as all businesses eventually are due to the cyclical nature he will wish he were more attentive to you.


It is my experience that service service service always results in larger profits over the long and we always do our best to avoid the easy and fast dollar should it mean compromising our service level.


Just my thoughts...

I didn't comment like this, I was thinking it, but we're only hearing one side of the story. So I thought the better of it.

 

[howdydoody]

I can appreciate the desire of a businessman to develop a business model to maximize profits. He is apparently telling all of his new customers that any future hardware (blu-ray players, new projectors etc.) must be bought from him for continued service. If they go for this and he can pull it off, more power to him. Where I do have issue is that as an old customer, I did not sign off on that kind of service. I do think that Crestron and Lutron should contractually require maintanence of the products that they have sold to customers (providing that there has been polite interactions, realistic expectations and prompt payment for services of course). I think he will give the programming to me and I will check out the options for new programming etc.


Only time will tell if he has made a good business decision. I have had previously had good service from them (although they are not prompt, I tend to be a very patient person).


What truly shocks me is that the economy is so good right now for this type of service. I would never have expected this.

 

[Neurorad]

I blame Crestron and Lutron for tolerating this jerk CI's behavior.