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Critera for choosing Large vs. Small in amp settings for speaker size?

2080 Views 8 Replies 7 Participants Last post by axs, Jan 12, 2007

lovingdvd

Discussion Starter · Jan 12, 2007

My Yamaha RX-V1400 receiver asks me to set whether my left/right, center, and surrounds are "Large" or "Small" in the speaker set up.

What is the criteria for this? My front speakers are Pinnacle Gold Reference which are towers with two 5.25" woofers and a tweeter and rated from 29Hz - 20kHz ±3dB. My surrounds are Sonance Virtuoso RS1 in ceiling with two 3" midrange, 3 tweeters and an 8" woofer and rated from 32Hz - 20kHz ±3dB.

I always thought you should choose Large if you have speakers that can do low frequency response like these. However someone recently told me that Large is really for much larger speakers that do these low frequencies like 10" woofers and up. Is this the case?

Based on my set up (in a room that's about 20x20) do you think I should be using Large or Small for this setting?

Also what would you recommend I set my sub cross over point at on the receiver?

Thanks!

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rockemsockem

· #2 · Jan 12, 2007

I would run initially run everything as small, and set the crossover at 60Hz (which is one octave above the -3 db point of your mains. The reason to not send bass to woofers that aren't designed to adequately handle them, is to avoid putting a strain on the higher frequencies by asking your speakers to produce the entire frequency range.

This is just a general starting point. Of course you could season to taste. I know some people that run just their mains as large, and send the LFE to both mains and sub. They feel it gives a fuller sound. Personally, it sounds bloated to me, but that is my taste.

I also feel that I get more detail in the highs when I run my mains as small, though they are rated down to 40 HZ. But I'm certain my 12" sub handles 40-80Hz much better than the single 6.5" woofers in my mains.

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lovingdvd

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jan 12, 2007

Thanks. What do receivers typically do when you set speakers as Large vs. Small? I assume this controls to what extent they pass low frequencies to those speakers, but I thought that is what the crossover control on the receiver is for? So I'm confused as to how one should be use Large/Small in conjunction with the cross over point.

I remember a few years ago when I last experimented with the sound and set everything up - I found it sounded best when I had the left/right and surrounds on Large. As you said, it sounded "fuller".

However this may be because my sub is a 10 year old leftover from an old 5.1 speaker set I used to us. Perhaps when I get a "real" sub in the room things will work better with everything set to Small? If you are interested details about my room and questions about my sub criteria / selection are here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=785857

Thanks!

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axs

· #4 · Jan 12, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd /forum/post/0

What do receivers typically do when you set speakers as Large vs. Small? I assume this controls to what extent they pass low frequencies to those speakers, but I thought that is what the crossover control on the receiver is for? So I'm confused as to how one should be use Large/Small in conjunction with the cross over point.

The receiver directs the low frequency taking into account the speaker size and crossover frequency. The receiver will direct low frequencies, for channels set to small , to the subwoofer. The receiver will direct low frequencies for the channels set to large, to the speakers connected to those channels, so if your fronts (L/R) are set to large, the low frequencies in those channels will be sent to your front L/R speakers.

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OttoSpiral

· #5 · Jan 12, 2007

axs is right. I kind of think of small/large like a crossover on/off switch. "Large" means "crossover off". "Small" means "crossover on" for that channel. With "crossover on" the crossover point set in your receiver will then be applied to that channel.

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Paul Scarpelli

· #6 · Jan 12, 2007

If you're using a subwoofer, set all other speakers to "small." If you use a subwoofer and your fronts have the same bass extension as your sub (doubtful), then you can run your large fronts as "large."

The problem with running fronts full-range with a sub is they will roll off sooner, and they will duplicate the sub's response to that point. If the sub is flat to 20 Hz and the fronts are flat to 40 Hz, running the fronts in tandem with the sub will yield a calibrated result that will have reduced output between 20 Hz and 40 Hz. There will be the correct amount of bass, but a loss below the f3 of the fronts.

Many will argue with me on this, and I respect their incorrect opinion.

At CES a few days ago, I surprised one of my more knowledgable dealers by telling him to run our huge, 150 lb. Platinum LCRs ($6,350 each) as "small" because they have a -3 dB of 60 Hz. If you run them full range, you cut about 4 dB of headroom off, plus, you duplicate the mid and upper bass, moving the spectral balance away from the proper amount of low bass. Most LCRs are designed NOT to be full range because a subwoofer is being used, and it's easier to make them more sensitive with a higher bass rolloff, in this case a whopping 94.5 dB.

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davidpa

· #7 · Jan 12, 2007

Plus, you take a load off your amp by running the fronts small, as the amp does not have to use its power to supply the lower frequencies load, and in theory, you will get your fronts to play a little louder w/less distortion as your amp has less of a load and will operate with less strain. It can be a win win. But, I actually run my fronts, and center large, and dont notice any loss in mids, or muddied sub frequencies, so I think it is fair to say, that alot depends on the room.

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allsop4now

· #8 · Jan 12, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli /forum/post/0

If you're using a subwoofer, set all other speakers to "small." If you use a subwoofer and your fronts have the same bass extension as your sub (doubtful), then you can run your large fronts as "large."

The problem with running fronts full-range with a sub is they will roll off sooner, and they will duplicate the sub's response to that point. If the sub is flat to 20 Hz and the fronts are flat to 40 Hz, running the fronts in tandem with the sub will yield a calibrated result that will have reduced output between 20 Hz and 40 Hz. There will be the correct amount of bass, but a loss below the f3 of the fronts.

Many will argue with me on this, and I respect their incorrect opinion.

At CES a few days ago, I surprised one of my more knowledgable dealers by telling him to run our huge, 150 lb. Platinum LCRs ($6,350 each) as "small" because they have a -3 dB of 60 Hz. If you run them full range, you cut about 4 dB of headroom off, plus, you duplicate the mid and upper bass, moving the spectral balance away from the proper amount of low bass. Most LCRs are designed NOT to be full range because a subwoofer is being used, and it's easier to make them more sensitive with a higher bass rolloff, in this case a whopping 94.5 dB.

What is your opinion of using wide range (full range seems to be mostly a marketing term) speakers when a subwoofer is always going to be used, be it music or HT?

Would you use, say, smaller floor standers or bigger/huge ones? Size is relative, of course, but why buy the really big floor standers that goes deep?

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axs

· #9 · Jan 12, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by allsop4now /forum/post/0

but why buy the really big floor standers that goes deep?

Better integration with sub is one reason.

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