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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know this is a stupid question to most of you but what is crossover and what determines changing it from 80hz?
I was looking through Auto set up settings and it has the X-Curve on Off. Is this correct and what is it?
 

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Hi


Usually there is a knob on the back of the sub and the size of your main speakers determines how low you should set the crossover.


happy new year
 

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The crossover is the setting (On the sub or in the receiver) that seperates what goes to the speakers and the sub. When done in the receiver (the most common way) you set the receiver to say 80 Hz. The receiver then sends everything above 80 Hz to the speakers and everything below 80 Hz to the sub. This is also accomplised in a lot of recivers by setting your speakers to "Small" (many older receivers did this because they did not have an adjustable crossover setting, it was fixed at say 100 Hz and when you set you speakers to small it basically "Activated" the crossover) the reciver then knows that you want it to not send full range signals to your speakers but to send the lower frequencies to the sub and the upper to the speakers. Most subs are powered or active meaning that they have their own amplifiers so all they need is for the receiver to tell them what and when to play and they do it. This frees up the receivers power to play the above 80 Hz frequencies to the speakers and not tax the receivers amp by making it push the speakers to produce all of the lower frequencies. Even though you may have large floorstanding speakers it is still a good idea to set them to "Small" so that the receiver knows you want the sub to play all of the low frequencies.


A lot of subs have what are called line level or high level inputs such as speaker binding posts. If you have a receiver that does not have any crossover such as an older Stereo receiver you caould run the speaker wires from the receiver to the sub "Line Level Inputs" Then run speaker wire out the line level outputs (Another set of speaker binding posts) and run this set of speaker wires to your speakers. You would then use the Subwoofers crossover to set what the sub plays and what goes out to the speakers. This is a great feature on a lot of subs that still allow effective crossover handeling even without a receiver to do it. Sorry for the long response but I thought I would try to explain it to you.
 

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80 Hz is what is reccomended by THX. It is not the end all be all setting it is just what is reccomended by them. What decides to change it is what sounds best to you. You may have some really capable floorstanding speakers that can easily dig down to 40-30 Hz. If so you could play around with your settings to see what sounds best to you.


Another thing, if you have speakers that say only play down to 100 Hz then 80 Hz would not be a good selection for you, you want the speakers and sub to blend with one another. SO if your speakers only play down to 100 Hz then I would say that you should start off at say 100-110 Hz for the crossover setting. As you can see you need to know the rating of your system to get it to blens and sound best. Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wafflebird /forum/post/0


The crossover is the setting (On the sub or in the receiver) that seperates what goes to the speakers and the sub. When done in the receiver (the most common way) you set the receiver to say 80 Hz. The receiver then sends everything above 80 Hz to the speakers and everything below 80 Hz to the sub. This is also accomplised in a lot of recivers by setting your speakers to "Small" (many older receivers did this because they did not have an adjustable crossover setting, it was fixed at say 100 Hz and when you set you speakers to small it basically "Activated" the crossover) the reciver then knows that you want it to not send full range signals to your speakers but to send the lower frequencies to the sub and the upper to the speakers. Most subs are powered or active meaning that they have their own amplifiers so all they need is for the receiver to tell them what and when to play and they do it. This frees up the receivers power to play the above 80 Hz frequencies to the speakers and not tax the receivers amp by making it push the speakers to produce all of the lower frequencies. Even though you may have large floorstanding speakers it is still a good idea to set them to "Small" so that the receiver knows you want the sub to play all of the low frequencies.


A lot of subs have what are called line level or high level inputs such as speaker binding posts. If you have a receiver that does not have any crossover such as an older Stereo receiver you caould run the speaker wires from the receiver to the sub "Line Level Inputs" Then run speaker wire out the line level outputs (Another set of speaker binding posts) and run this set of speaker wires to your speakers. You would then use the Subwoofers crossover to set what the sub plays and what goes out to the speakers. This is a great feature on a lot of subs that still allow effective crossover handeling even without a receiver to do it. Sorry for the long response but I thought I would try to explain it to you.

Thanks for all the info. It was helpful. My floorstanding go down to 33hz i think. What is the effect if I set them at large w/80hz crossover?
 

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For best sound, you want the drivers to operate well within their rated range. The crossover to the next speaker up or down the chain should be, at the minimum, one octave...preferable more. Set your AVR front main speakers (and all of them) to small to incorporate the separate powered subwoofer. Turn the subwoofer crossover all the way to the highest setting so that it doesn't interfere with the amplifier's crossover. Experiment with 60 - 80 Hz, whatever your AVR provides, to find best overall sound to your liking. If you can't notice a difference between those two settings, choose 80 Hz. This will keep your floorstander's woofer well into its comfortable range, and the subwoofer's range as well.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 450exc /forum/post/0


Thanks for all the info. It was helpful. My floorstanding go down to 33hz i think. What is the effect if I set them at large w/80hz crossover?

Setting them to "Large" will send them a full-range (20 to 20kHz) signal. If they can only reproduce to 33 Hz, anything below 33 Hz will be lost, (or, at least, reproduced with -3 dB or more diminution of output). Assuming your sub is capable of lower output than your mains, re-directing the lowest bass to the sub will ensure that ithe lowest bass in the main channels is reproduced, at least to the limit of the sub.


In addition, by re-directing the really low stuff to the sub, you releive the main amps of the burden of amplifying it. Since low frequencies are the most power hungry, releiving the amps of this burden frees up amplifier headroom and allows the entire system to playback louder and with less distortion.


Try it both ways. I expect you'll like the overall sound of the total system better with the mains to "Small" and an 80 Hz crossover. Be sure to re-calibrate when changing the settings to ensure an "apples-to-apples" comparison.


Best of luck to you.


Craig
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john /forum/post/0


Setting them to "Large" will send them a full-range (20 to 20kHz) signal. If they can only reproduce to 33 Hz, anything below 33 Hz will be lost, (or, at least, reproduced with -3 dB or more diminution of output). Assuming your sub is capable of lower output than your mains, re-directing the lowest bass to the sub will ensure that ithe lowest bass in the main channels is reproduced, at least to the limit of the sub.


In addition, by re-directing the really low stuff to the sub, you releive the main amps of the burden of amplifying it. Since low frequencies are the most power hungry, releiving the amps of this burden frees up amplifier headroom and allows the entire system to playback louder and with less distortion.


Try it both ways. I expect you'll like the overall sound of the total system better with the mains to "Small" and an 80 Hz crossover. Be sure to re-calibrate when changing the settings to ensure an "apples-to-apples" comparison.


Best of luck to you.


Craig

Thanks for all your help. It helps me understand the set up better.
 

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I'm going to have to disagree with Craig, although most of the time I value his input and his contributions to this forum.
I've always used full range mains with my system and I have found that by setting the main speakers to large, my over all response is fuller and I have less localization issues. If you set your mains to large all bass below the crossover point will go to the mains and the subwoofer. Bottom line, no matter how I calibrate my speakers it just sounds better, but you should try it both ways to see which works for you. Also see the link below to an article which may be helful. However unlike the Author, I prefer to set all my satellites to small.


http://www.hometheatersound.com/feat...c_20010701.htm


Ian
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang /forum/post/0


I'm going to have to disagree with Craig, although most of the time I value his input and his contributions to this forum.
I've always used full range mains with my system and I have found that by setting the main speakers to large, my over all response is fuller and I have less localization issues. If you set your mains to large all bass below the crossover point will go to the mains and the subwoofer. Bottom line, no matter how I calibrate my speakers it just sounds better, but you should try it both ways to see which works for you. Also see the link below to an article which may be helful. However unlike the Author, I prefer to set all my satellites to small.


http://www.hometheatersound.com/feat...c_20010701.htm


Ian

Ian,


We didn't disagree.
We both said to try it both ways and see which the OP liked best. Clearly, some folks prefer the mid-bass reinforcement of having their (almost full range) mains set to "Large". This can work for some people. It probably has more to do with speaker-and-sub room interaction at various frequencies than with the speaker size/crossover selection.


In any event, experimentation is the key and the avenue to audio nirvana.


Best.


Craig
 

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I quess we have agreed to agree Craig.
In any case let us know how you made out with your set up, 450exc.


Ian
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john /forum/post/0


Setting them to "Large" will send them a full-range (20 to 20kHz) signal. If they can only reproduce to 33 Hz, anything below 33 Hz will be lost, (or, at least, reproduced with -3 dB or more diminution of output). Assuming your sub is capable of lower output than your mains, re-directing the lowest bass to the sub will ensure that ithe lowest bass in the main channels is reproduced, at least to the limit of the sub.


In addition, by re-directing the really low stuff to the sub, you releive the main amps of the burden of amplifying it. Since low frequencies are the most power hungry, releiving the amps of this burden frees up amplifier headroom and allows the entire system to playback louder and with less distortion.


Try it both ways. I expect you'll like the overall sound of the total system better with the mains to "Small" and an 80 Hz crossover. Be sure to re-calibrate when changing the settings to ensure an "apples-to-apples" comparison.


Best of luck to you.


Craig

After changing the crossover would you get the same results if you recalibrated your speakers using the receiver's test tones and an SPL meter? I was under the impression that receiver test tones (except for the sub) were centered somewhere around 1Khz. How would changing the crossover from 80hz to 60hz or 100hz affect a calibration done with those tones?
 

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While it varies from receiver to receiver, the test tones are generally not a single tone. They are usually comprised of multiple frequencies across the bandwidth of the channel. Some receivers use "pink noise" as the test tone. Others use fast sweeps of the bandwidth. Still others may use combinations of individual tones. It would be inadvisable to use a single tone as a test tone for a broad frequency bandwidth.


If you calibrated with the receivers test tones at 100 Hz and then reset the crossover to 80 Hz, you would probably see little difference in the main speaker levels. What could possibly change significantly is the subwoofer level, depending on it's output in the 80 to 100 Hz range.


Craig
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john /forum/post/0


While it varies from receiver to receiver, the test tones are generally not a single tone. They are usually comprised of multiple frequencies across the bandwidth of the channel. Some receivers use "pink noise" as the test tone. Others use fast sweeps of the bandwidth. Still others may use combinations of individual tones. It would be inadvisable to use a single tone as a test tone for a broad frequency bandwidth.


If you calibrated with the receivers test tones at 100 Hz and then reset the crossover to 80 Hz, you would probably see little difference in the main speaker levels. What could possibly change significantly is the subwoofer level, depending on it's output in the 80 to 100 Hz range.


Craig

Do you happen to know how low (in hz) the main and center channel test tones go in the Denon 2807 receiver? I'm interested in the test tones that are used to set the channel levels, not the Audyssey test tones.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by 450exc /forum/post/0


I will try it both ways this weekend I hope and let you know.

OK I tried setting speakers to large with crossover at 50hz and set to small crossover at 50hz & 80hz. My son and I both thought it sounded better when set at Large and 50hz. I'm still not convinced it's set up right. I can't seem to get the sound out of it that I heard at the store.
 

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Most movie sound tracks are mixed to offer the best results for most speakers with the cross set around 80hz. What kind of sub and receiver are you using and are you defeating the subs crossover? Also have you checked the phase and balanced out your system accordingly? The more info you give us about your system the more input we can provide to help you get the best results.


Ian
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang /forum/post/0


Most movie sound tracks are mixed to offer the best results for most speakers with the cross set around 80hz. What kind of sub and receiver are you using and are you defeating the subs crossover? Also have you checked the phase and balanced out your system accordingly? The more info you give us about your system the more input we can provide to help you get the best results.


Ian

The reciever is a Pioneer VSC-81TXV, the sub is a Klipsch RW-12D, Fronts RF-82, center is an RC-52, Rears are RB-51's. All are Klipsch. I'm not sure what you mean by have you checked the phase.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 450exc /forum/post/0


The reciever is a Pioneer VSC-81TXV, the sub is a Klipsch RW-12D, Fronts RF-82, center is an RC-52, Rears are RB-51's. All are Klipsch.

Your subwoofer settings etc..?


Ian
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang /forum/post/0


Your subwoofer settings etc..?


Ian

How do i find subwoofer settings? I kept reading in the setup about setting sub on Plus, I just found out that it will only give me this option when speekers are set to large.
 
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