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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This has probably been thrown around this forum from time to time but as a new CRT owner and one who is planning to upgrade down the line a thought occured to me last night.


With the new LCD and DLP becoming the norm for Gov't and Corporation use, who will pay the large upfront prices for us to get those used gems at an aution down the road?

I would guess that the only people buying new CRT projectors now are those that are very well off. So the used market will eventually diminish.


Any thoughts?


Erik :(
 

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I think your question was probably more valid several years ago. My guess is that it's been at least that long since large numbers of new crts have been purchased by the big companies/orgs. I would say we are just going through their old stock now and would be really surprised if availability was this good 2 years from now. There will always be the end users purchased, but I think we are eventally going to see price spikes when people see the supply get smaller and smaller. Of course this is just my guess and I would LOVE to be proven wrong, as would many others like you looking to upgrade a bit down the road...
 

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Erik,

This has been discussed in other ways before. My belief is that the 7" machines will become essentially worthless. The 8" machines will probably be around at the lower end of the price scale. The 9" machines will come down and either level off or go up in price. The big issue is what price will you pay. If you get an 8" that needs new tubes, then what is it worth to you? Besides VDC still makes the 9500, so there will continue to be some machines coming into the market. Personally, I think the bulbs will be good enough (or better) for the right price in a couple of years to go that route.


Ericglo
 

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I think the issue also hinges on digital performance and the advancements that can be made to digital in the coming years. If digital can approach CRT performance, then more CRT owners will become digital owners(did I just say that). The demand will decrase for the CRT units/parts and the price may not spike as govgeek suggests. However, I agree that if the CRTers are not impressed by digital improvements then the lowered supply and increased demand will cause the spikes.


just my $0.02
 

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I think a lot of what we see going round is government and corporate stock etc that was let go a while back. There are some used units from homes where folks have gone to other technologies for their reasons. There are still folks like me clinging to what is the best until a" better" comes along. I sold two Runco 980 ultras two years ago.


I believe we will see fixed pixel surpass CRT for overall pq king. When that happens, even the videophiles like me will go over and more CRTs will be available.


Art
 

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What I've seen is that the gov't stuff is more or less useless. THere's more parts sets and crap in recent months than before. Where the gold is now is private corporations that depreciate stuff less than the gov't does.


That means they are harder to find, but usually good when you do find them. I can't post what I've gotten recently, but it's better than ever before. I'm sure other resellers will agree.
 

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Oh, and the disposability of the digitals won't ever change. That still sways a lot of people to CRT's.


Not to mention the better PQ.
 

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Digital projectors have been, are, and will be in the same category as PC's. Hell, they are PC's except with addition of a light bulb and a lens. And just like PC's they are indeed

disposables. And not only that, but disposables that depreciate in value about as fast as it takes a bottle of milk to go sour.

And when the warranty is over and they break, oh my god we don't even wanna talk about that. No need to upset the children.
 

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I believe that cmjohnson posted that there are still quite a few CRTs sold for simulators and the like. If they are used at very low levels (like simulating planes landing at night) then I would think they could be good units if they hit the marketplace used. I think another big question is tube availability from VDC and their quality. As an example, if there was a good place to get G90 tubes for a good price then that could hold up prices on even G90s with bad tubes, but if tubes cost more than the resulting projector would be worth, then the value of G90s with bad tubes would be relatively low. Anyway, from reports it does sound like VDC is still selling quite a few brand new CRTs.


--Darin
 

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There were still lots of 9" EMs going into simulator and VR equipment 4-5 years ago. The VR/sim industry and PJ manufacturers were just starting to develop some methods to make digitals work for VR - back then. I've been away from it for awhile so I don't know how long it was until CRTs mostly went away in those applications...but some of that stuff will certainly start getting retired soon. I'd imagine we'll start seeing some 909s and more 9500's showing up in the used market.


Whether the 9" machines will be affordable or expensive will solely depend on how good the digitals are at that time. My sincere hope is that digitals will have gotten really, really good in the $5000-10000 ballpark... so good, in fact, that few will want a behemoth like a G90, 9500, or 909 in their home and the perceived and real hassles that go along with them.


Whether the timing will work out for me is another story: Will the machines find their way into enthusiast's hands before the value drops enough that I'll be able to afford or justify the purchase? My concern is that the value will drop so low that the people who still have them just won't be able justify selling them - they'll just keep them. I know I have things around the house that are worth much more to me than what I would be able to sell them for.


SC
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn
I think a lot of what we see going round is government and corporate stock etc that was let go a while back. There are some used units from homes where folks have gone to other technologies for their reasons. There are still folks like me clinging to what is the best until a" better" comes along. I sold two Runco 980 ultras two years ago.


I believe we will see fixed pixel surpass CRT for overall pq king. When that happens, even the videophiles like me will go over and more CRTs will be available.


Art


Dibs!
 

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CJ is constantly over and at VDC and I beleive him when he says they're having trouble keeping up with demand. Just look at their web-site, their Stock shares are doing very well (gotta love a monopoloy). The big surplus will eventually dry up, and we will see less and less from the corporations and guvliq . At that time, 8 and 9 " machine will hold steady in price or even go up a bit, like a nice Linn LP-12 turntable. :) The current pixel technology will never catch up, it's too flawed and will never have a real black level. DLP sucks and I hope LCOS gets better but it's too expensive and CR is crap.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by draganm
The current pixel technology will never catch up, it's too flawed and will never have a real black level.
So, what makes you think they "will never have a real black level"? Can you not think of a way to get this? I hope you aren't another one who thinks that just because there is a lamp that there isn't any way to blackout or get very dark blacks even in dark stuff. Heck, just last night I got higher on/off CR than William Phelp's calibrated G90 on a DLP (although I didn't leave any room for above-reference-whites). Put in a dynamic system (this is without the extra help of a dynamic system) and they could definitely blackout. The engineers can do it, it is just a matter of whether the market cares enough. My close to 9k:1 that I measured is enough to hold a blackout like the end of "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" where they go from bright to blackout and then to the credits maybe a second later, but not from dark to blackout.


And all this above is without LEDs which have been shown to do basically infinite on/off CR and huge ANSI CR with a flat panel.


--Darin
 

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VDC is indeed shipping CRT projectors like mad. There is a huge market for the simulator industry, you should see the F16 simulator, wow! Bummer is that you won't see any of these projectors for maybe 10 years or so on the surplus market. The simulator people that are making sims right now expect to maintain them for quite awhile. Even if a perfect projector burst upon the market tomorrow it would take years for simulator people to switch over. There is still a good size market for simulator projectors that were designed 10+ years ago. The airline industry isn't making alot of profit so they aren't replacing their systems, they are upgrading with new CRTs and that's about it. CRTs will still be in use 10 years from now. The digital equipment on the market is designed to be throw away. I don't think that the simulator market is going to embrace a technology that can't be repaired. They can't use stuff that requires their system to be redesigned everytime a projector model is discontinued and a new model is introduced.
 

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Well, with all this talk about CRT projectors becoming extinct, I think it is time I got my hands on a really good 9" unit like a 9500LC or possibly a G90 since I have never seen one in person. Seeing what my little 8" NEC can do (with DVD!) I can only imagine what a nice 9" machine can do being fed with a high definition signal. :eek:


OH CUUUUURT, WHERE R U? :D I heard that you could upgrade me! :)
 

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i have a buddy with a dlp... last month the bulb decided to gernade when it blew. now he is looking at a new bulb and a new dlp panel as long as the scratches and pits aren't that visable... the new digitals are pretty much disposable products just like almost everything else today. there is something to be said about having a 6lb projector though., and its not " hello mr chiropractor, i'll be in tuesday". thats why god created buddys that will do almost anything for beer.
 

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Maybe the day will finally come in the next couple years when a digital comes along and everyone basically agrees, OK, that's good enough. If I were buying today and had the choice between a CRT and this guy, I'd take this guy because the cumulative benefits outweigh the shortcomings. Then, people at the high end will start dumping their 9" CRTs (the first digital that gets across that line will probably kind of pricey I guess, so high enders will move on it first) and there'll be a small spike in availability of high end CRTs as this generation of digitals finally pushes CRTs out of the high end.


Or, maybe I'm on drugs and it'll just be a long slow erosion of CRT and never a real 'ah ha' moment where digitals are widely accepted to have gone over the line, even by the existing CRT owner market.
 

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What's happened recently is the volume of repairs has skyrocketed, sales have levelled off. The sales are pretty normal for August...


I predict 2 more good years of sales for me, and 10 of service. That's the nice niche that I have. Lot of people can retube and replace boards, far fewer can do component repairs to those PC boards.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme
What's happened recently is the volume of repairs has skyrocketed ...
Are these mostly private party, or do you get a lot of work from businesses?


--Darin
 

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Mostly HT people, but I am now getting corporate referrals. One place in Fl has 28 sets that I'm going through 3 at a time. It turns out it's cheaper doing return shipping on three than what it used to cost them dealing with a local outfit for one set.


Minor repairs so far...:)
 
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