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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Got my CS-1 today. Here are a few initial observations about ergonomics. I have not even begun to look at picture quality. Sorry for the long post.


For the record I have been running an ECP 4500 on a Draper M2500 74" wide 16:9 screen with a Quadscan Pro (no filters and 2.50 software) for the past 18 months. Decided to upgrade for both ergonomic and image quality reasons and so far, at least ergonomically, I am a bit dissapointed. Hopefully FE can address the problems I have encountered or show me what I am doing wrong.


First off, I plugged it into my computer monitor and brought up the menu. It looked good and I was happy. Decided to do a factory reset (I always do on new stuff, maybe I shouldn't) and then no more menu. After two calls to tech support we collectively discovered that after a reset you must have an active signal going to the unit or no more menu. Not a big deal just wierd.


Backed up the unit to PC and installed new software 1.18 and created a resolution. Worked perfectly !


Took it down to the Nevardium theatre, unplugged the QS and started everything up with the CS-1. The 4500 liked 4 wire sync from the QS and no such animal on the CS-1, so I had to connect both H & V sync cables together in order to get a stable image.


None of the internal resolutions were really anything like the triple from the QS, including the one I tried to create but a few were in the range and the convergennce was good enough to start playing with things.


Now here are the things that really bugged me. Reminded me of some of the wierdness with the QS. Note I have only played with the front panel buttons and not the remote.


1- Can't cycle backwards on front panel input and output, why??


2- Seems only the output menu has size adjustments and they do not stick to individual inputs. So for my laserdisc image which is not as wide as the DVD I have to make the changes manually, a major pain, even the QS output size would stick to inputs. Input position is pretty useless in this case. What can be done about this? I am thinking that creating similar output resolutions might work and I could switch outputs as well as inputs, but that's not very elegant and I don't even know if size is sticky to ouputs.


3- I can't seem to get DSP to stick to an input. Normally my SVHS would stay in video and the LD and DVD in Film.


4- When you change inputs, the input aspect seems to get messed up (sticks to last input's aspect) and you have to cycle it for it to fall into place, wierd and a real real pain. Hopefully there will be a fix for this soon. (unless of course I am doing something wrong.) Could solving this issue also solve the issue of ouput size not sticking to individual inputs?


5- I think this is really a proj. issue but all 72hz resolutions make the image really shakey, while the 60 HZ ones are stable. What could this be, hopefully not a proj power supply problem?


I am not here to criticize the CS-1. I have high hopes for it but I am feeling like I am back to a few of the same types of issues I had with the QS.


Please suggestions, comments or workarounds needed. As soon as these issues are solved and I create some cool 72hz and 48hz resolutions I can start checking out image quality.


Andrew
 

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Anevard:


2 -- You might want to check the input adjustments in the menu. There are some sizing adjustments there, I think, that stick with the input.


4 -- I think the aspect is a global setting. The remote has a button for each, which makes this a convenient adjustment from the remote. Not so convenient from the front panel.


5 -- I observed the same shakiness at 72/75Hz. Shaun from FE suggested it might be due to my LCD projector trying to resync to 60Hz; but that shouldn't be an issue, I would think, with your CRT. Shaun did say he would ask the engineers about this one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Bob


2- Unfortunately the input menu only allows adjusting position not size. Input size adjustments would be an OK workaround but they do not exist, maybe 1.19??


4- I understood that aspect was supposed to be input sticky. Guess I was wrong. My LD never needs 16:9 and my DVD usually does, just more macros for the Pronto.


5- I guess I'll have to hook up another source at 72hz and see if it's the proj or the CS-1. DOn't know if my old laptop goes up to 72. I will investigate.


So far #2 is the real problem. It is just not practical to do a resize every time I switch inputs. The 72hz problem would be nice to solve. Anyone tried 48hz on a CRT?


Andrew
 

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Version 1.19 will soon be available.
 

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I misremembered the adjustments in the Input menu. Sorry. I doublechecked the manual just before I went to bed and realized it. But by then I had turned off my computer.


Instinctually, I would have liked aspect ratios that went with the inputs, too. But last night I accidentally discovered a reason against it. I was running "The Princess Bride' (my wife's favorite movie and my effort to get WAF on the CS-1 purchase. Heh, heh.) The movie is anamorphic but the special features are not. Because the aspect buttons are on the remote, I was able to quickly switch out of anamorphic when needed. No going into the setup menu. Pretty handy, actually.


Hmm, another system software update? Good on ya, mates. If Focus Enhc. can be responsive to changes, they have the chance to make the CS-1/2 a huge win for themselves, IMHO, and really confirm the flexibiility of this unit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Shaun: interesting, what issues will 1.19 address? Will the output sizes stick to each input? (this one is really important).


Bob: My hope was that you could setup a default aspect and DSP for each input, but of course it should be changeable when needed from the remote. Everytime you switch back to that input it would revert to the defaults.


What would also be fun are default image quality settings that, for example, you could adjust saturation for a particular disc then revert back to your default settings when you switched back to an input. You wouldn't need to break out Avia every time you tweaked for a particular disc and forgot your defaults (I suppose you could write them down but that's not very elegant, besides I did that a few times with thee QS and lost the post-it).


Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
After a few hours of working with my laptop and ECP 4500 connected to the CS1 I have the following observations.


1- There is no feedback from the CS1 to the PC software, you must constantly refresh to see what is really going on. Not the end of the world, just a pain.


2- Every custom resolution I create always falls into YPrPb when you switch to it. I need RGB. Normally this would not have been a serious problem as I am only planning on using one res when I am finished tweaking and I could switch to RGB using the PC software and leave it there. UNFORTUNATELY every time you change inputs it falls back to YPrPb. Not only that but there is no way that I know of to switch from YPrPb to RGB other than the PC software or going down 2 levels into the onscreen menus. This is not cool!!


3- Entering any refresh below 60hz (600) pops up an error message saying "Invalid Refresh". I thought we could do 48hz with this product. Also what about 50hz for PAL.


4- Solved the shakey 72hz refresh by switching the ECP 4500 to fast sync.


5- Watched about 5 minutes of the Lion King on LD. There is a scene where he lifts his head. There is so much judder that it almost looks like it was shot at 6 fps. Anyone else noticed this. I am far from finalizing a res so maybe my custom res settings could be the problem. Never had this with the QS. Tried video and film bias.


My posts are not meant as an attack on Focus. They have been helpful in the past. I am just very dissapointed as I expected so much from this product, and I feel like I am back to the early days with my Quad! If I am missing things or if anyone has workarounds or suggestions PLEASE let me know.


Andrew
 

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a) I have also note that #2 as a problem


b) I have a Mits 775u vcr (s-video) that I use to watch TV. It appears that CS-1 drops the signal too quickly and my projector tries to find a new signal when I am changing channels.


My CI scaler appears to wait longer and if there is no signal it still sends out the output signal so my NEC 6PG doesn't freak out.


Is there a work around



I am overall impress with this unit and will test it on my dlp as well.




Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
clopez: I don't watch TV with my proj so I haven't experienced this issue.


Did some more work last night. A few more issues have cropped up. If anyone has experienced anything like them or has ANY suggestions I would be thrilled cuz I really want this scaler to blow me away. Hopefully FE will be able to solve all these issues.


After much experimentation I managed to create a resolution that seems OK. There could be some issues with it tho. I posted info about it in the Shaun CS-1 Emergency ... thread. As I have very little experience with custom T&R it could very well be problematic, but is the best I can do so far.


The latest:


Discovered that the unit reverts to YPrPb on custom resolutions every time you take it out of standby as well as when you change inputs.


The DVD on the YPrPb input is rock stable, but my LD on the s-video in has a some wiggle to it on the bottom 1/3rd of the screen. It is really not that noticeable and I don't know if it existed with the QS. Guess it could be a Time base prob or??


Had to put the Technics A10 DVD saturation to max as well as the CS-1 to +50 in order to get correct saturation on blue screen bars. The LD setting was normal around +7. Is this a YPrPb issue or something else? I will try another DVD player.


The contrast is fantastic.and the image is really sharp, so much so that I am starting to really see the transfer and MPEG artifacts. I had to pause the DVD at one point just to make sure that there wasn't signal noise. Sure enuf it was on the DVD and not in the signal path. This is the best my ECP has looked.


There is one MAJOR image issue. There is alot of twitter on horizontal lines. Looks like bad motion (3:2) detection. Tried both film and video DSP. Wide shots on Gladiator looked like standard interlaced NTSC. Could it be my resolution sync settings. Could they be introducing a shakiness on detailed images. In still mode there is no twitter so I think it really is something to do with motion processing. This was never evident on the QS pro which does not have as good of a processing chip. Anyone else seeing this?


I am hoping that once all these issues are resolved I will never want to change scalers again.


Andrew
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by anevard
clopez:


There is alot of twitter on horizontal lines. Looks like bad motion (3:2) detection. Tried both film and video DSP. This was never evident on the QS pro which does not have as good of a processing chip. Anyone else seeing this?

Andrew
Yes. I noticed this on certain scenes

I'm using the 1280 x 960 setting on an 8" CRT

The picture is rich, detailed, and has exceptional contrast

but I am seeing minor jaggies in places I didn't with the Quadscan

This chip should outperform the Genesis.

Ideas?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Well I am glad I am not the only one seeing this. I guess 2 of us don't make up a statistical result but maybe some others will let us know what they're seeing.


I seem to remeber reading about a similar problem a few years ago on another scaler either with a Genesis or Sil chip. I believe it was corrected with a firmware revision. I hope this can be done here.


Andrew
 

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anevard ,

I noticed the same thing with the component input.


I set the sturation to 49+ (calibrated using avia) and the image still look slightly washed out. s-video look rich and deep.


clopez


Does Film mode do any thing.


Please go the the credits of a DVD. when the credits are scrolling up tell me if film and standard video show any difference.


I haven't been able to see any difference.


clopez
 

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anevard,


I have noticed the sam thing usingf 1025X768. I noticed it more when I used the CS-1 to increase the H and V size.


So make that three...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I just remembered that the deinterlacing problem I read about was with the EAD TheatervisionP. I believe it used the Sil 503 and was often sent out from the factory with bad dip switch settings on the Sil board.


The deinterlacing was terrible but once the dip switches were set properly (supposedly not an easy thing to do) it looked fantastic. Hopefully the problem we are seeing is a similar one on the CS-1 and can be resolved by the end user either with a firmware upgrade or ???


Andrew
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by anevard
After a few hours of working with my laptop and ECP 4500 connected to the CS1 I have the following observations.



2- Every custom resolution I create always falls into YPrPb when you switch to it. I need RGB. Normally this would not have been a serious problem as I am only planning on using one res when I am finished tweaking and I could switch to RGB using the PC software and leave it there. UNFORTUNATELY every time you change inputs it falls back to YPrPb. Not only that but there is no way that I know of to switch from YPrPb to RGB other than the PC software or going down 2 levels into the onscreen menus. This is not cool!!



Andrew
Andrew, thank you for reporting this bug. This bug has been fixed and will be available in version 1.5.5 of our CSR software, this new version should be available on line shortly.
 

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Shaun

No comments about deinterlacing problems people are witnessing?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by TEW
Shaun

No comments about deinterlacing problems people are witnessing?
We are having Silicon Image test to make sure that everything is working properly. I do not normally post my personal test results but with this I will make an exception. I compared the Vigatec VC 1280 to the CS-1 and both were very similar in handling de-interlacing and 3:2 pulldown, this is what I expected. In any case if we find a problem it will be fixed. I have noticed that you can find material that makes the Genesis VLX-1 and the Faroudja FLI2200 look better than the 504, and there is also material where the 504 looks better than that of the VLX-1 and the FLI2200. You would have to compare products with all 3 deinterlacers using many different DVD's and video source material to make a fair judgement since each of these products may handle certain material better than others. That is what makes these de-interlacers competing products.:p
 

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Thanks for the quick resonse Shaun

No doubt the 504 should perform well, but something is amiss.

For reference, look at beginning of 5th Element ( 2nd or 3rd chapter?) when the India boy jumps off a donkey and runs up a wooden platform. There are steps on the platform that get really fuzzy as he runs up.

The Quadscan handled this test very well with no interlacing problems at all, but on the CS1 you can clearly see jaggies.

Aside from this issue, the box performs wonderfully. Colors are rich, images are razor sharp, and the on-screen menus are easy to navigate and understand.

I also found that upgrading the firmware was quick and easy.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by TEW
Thanks for the quick resonse Shaun

No doubt the 504 should perform well, but something is amiss.

For reference, look at beginning of 5th Element ( 2nd or 3rd chapter?) when the India boy jumps off a donkey and runs up a wooden platform. There are steps on the platform that get really fuzzy as he runs up.

The Quadscan handled this test very well with no interlacing problems at all, but on the CS1 you can clearly see jaggies.

Aside from this issue, the box performs wonderfully. Colors are rich, images are razor sharp, and the on-screen menus are easy to navigate and understand.

I also found that upgrading the firmware was quick and easy.
I have been using the Snell and Wilcox zone plate 3:2 pulldown test to see if there is a problem with detection and locking into 3:2 pulldown, the CS-1 SIL504 is working with this test. The difference between the QS and CS-1 is that the QS was always in Film mode it did not detect and switch it just stayed in film mode. I do not believe that you can permanently turn 3:2 pulldown on or off, the only choice is Film Bias or standard mode, the difference here is that it detects and locks much quicker in Bias mode than standard. We are testing everything further since this is an important part of the product. I will run some DVD tests at home, ofcourse I lent out my copy of 5th Element, I will try to get it back. Is there a scene say on Gladiator? What about non film DVD's The Eagles DVD looks awesome in comparison to the QS.
 
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