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I've only had my OTA tuner a couple weeks, but I have found much of the network shows lacking. I have read here that CSI is supposed to be as good as it gets, so I watched last night. What am I missing? The dynamic range seemed compressed. Dark scenes were awful, when I cranked up brightness they just got noisy. Same with contrast. The colors looked awful, both too red and too green at the same time! No way to adjust. Audio was subject to sudden increases in level. Am I the only one that feels this way? It was nowhere close to the best DVD's I've seen. Indeed, I've seen SD over the same tuner that looks overall superior to that. I know it's not my setup because PBS HD generally looks spectacular, as does football. It just looks to me like the network guys haven't learned to use their HD equipment to maximum benefit yet.
 

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I think it's a station issue. I don't like CSI:M but the picture here is very sharp. The coloring seems a bit odd often, but (I don't watch it much) I think that's just a stylistic thing - it's shot that way. If you've seen SD that looked better than CSI:M in HD 0000- then I feel pretty confident that there's something odd happening somewhere between your local station and your set.


Brian
 

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If you are fiddling with your brightness and contrast, they are obviously not properly configured.


I agree with everyone else, CSI:M is the BEST looking HD show on tv, let alone CBS. You are doing something wrong.
 

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Brightness and contrast are properly configured for my DVD player. When I switch to my tuner (T351) they are obviously wrong I also see fairly drastic changes station-to-station. I'm picking up Denver stations BTW. I guess it could be the local station, didnt think of that. Like I said, I'm new to this. I figured everyone would be receiving the same data, but now that I think of it the encoding must be done locally to accomodate multicasting. I'll have to check with my local HDTV thread.
 

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CSI-Miami as the best looking HD show on TV is an extremely subjective opinion.


I personally care not for CSI-name your megapolis. CSI is way too dark and grainy for my tastes, but that is just what it is, my tastes. Many of the new shows this year were stunning, in my opinion, namely, Miss Match, Joan of Arcadia, The Handler, etc.


It boils down to what the viewer prefers, dark and grainy of bright and clear. What is your genre, I guess.
 

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Indoor scenes on both CSI shows are dark, and sometimes grainy. Outdoor scenes in bright sunlight look great, expecially on CSI Miami. However, the latter show often seems to have a reddish-orange cast as if it was filmed in the late afternoon near sunset.
 

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Both CSI shows play with the color and film grain for dramatic effect. Neither looks particularly "natural", but once you realize the picture's being manipulated deliberately it's easier to take. Many feature films do the same thing--go rent Three Kings for an example. Even the LOTR movies have digital color grading done throughout.


While I'm a bit old fashioned and feel more comfortable with shows and movies that don't do this color and grain manipulation, I'm beginning to appreciate the dramatic effect and think of all the tv shows the CSI's do it to best effect.


Most of the flashback scenes in the LV version, for example, have an extreme graininess, and the indoor scenes are tinted green/blue. In SD this just becomes a mess but in HD it's easy to tell this is intended and can be appreciated.
 

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KCNC ( CBS in Denver ) does not multi-cast. They use the full 19.2 date rate for their digital channel. CSI Miami is shot in a very stylized way. I would never use it to set colors on my projector :) though.


CSi Miami does look very good and shows quite a bit of detail and sharpness/clarity.



Jeff
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by jambroni
CSI-Miami as the best looking HD show on TV is an extremely subjective opinion. [deletions] It boils down to what the viewer prefers, dark and grainy of bright and clear. What is your genre, I guess.
I personally found the night shot of the LV skyline on Thursday's CSI to be breath taking. I found last night's daylight outdoor shots to be off but I don't normally watch CSI-Miami anyway.


YMMV
 

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My local CBS just went HD last night and CSI: Miami was the first thing I have seen from CBS in HD. It was the best HD I've seen as far as normal shows go (sports not included and I just have OTA). Much better than anything NBC offers. My first "WOW" since I first saw Monday Night Football.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Slade
My local CBS just went HD last night and CSI: Miami was the first thing I have seen from CBS in HD. It was the best HD I've seen as far as normal shows go (sports not included and I just have OTA). Much better than anything NBC offers. My first "WOW" since I first saw Monday Night Football.
Victory Drive on a Friday Night in HD?:p
 

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Originally posted by ed2day
Brightness and contrast are properly configured for my DVD player. When I switch to my tuner (T351) they are obviously wrong I also see fairly drastic changes station-to-station. I'm picking up Denver stations BTW. I guess it could be the local station, didnt think of that. Like I said, I'm new to this. I figured everyone would be receiving the same data, but now that I think of it the encoding must be done locally to accomodate multicasting. I'll have to check with my local HDTV thread. [/QUOT


I am assuming that you have a different input on your TV for your STB and another for you DVD?


Using AVIA or DVE to set your levels for DVD can be used as a baseline for your other devices. Your DVD player will probably have "features" such as black level enhancement which will not exist on your STB. This would cause the differences you have indicated. I agree with the others that CSI Miami or CSI should not be used to set color as they are often not providing anything near a true white. The PQ however is some of the best available.


I tend to use HDnet world reprt to set STB color levels. I wait until there is an abundance of mid-daylight lit caucasian skin tones and adjust the color from there. I am a photographer, so I spend most of my day color correcting images and have found this method works for me as I know what that particular color should look like. Good luck.
 

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I was a heck of a lot more impressed with the OTA CSB presentation of CSI: Miami than I was with the OTA ABC presentation of Armageddon Monday night.
 

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I too thought the CSI Miami episode was beautiful. I could see all the wrinkles on David Caruso's face :)


It was just incredible picture quality...I watched the whole episode just because of that. I don't even like CSI miami that much.
 

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Personally I think CSI: Miami is some of the WORST HD out there. I've always enjoyed CSI for the 2+ years I've had HD but the lighting and severe color tint on Miami makes in a show to skip for me. I'll watch it if I have nothing better to do, but that's it. I know it's part of the "ambiance" but it turns me off.
 

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To me, CSI: Miami is easily the best-looking network HD show. Given that nothing on ABC is impressive looking and pretty much everything on NBC is soft, the only contenders -- in my mind -- at all, have to come from CBS.


And I can't imagine something that consistently has more "wow" shots than CSI:Miami.
 

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A s someone else noted, lighting, apparent film grain, color balance, are all over the place, varying from scene to scene, for dramatic effect. Another Hollywood attempt at "art".
 

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CSI is film. PBS is video. They are not the same thing. And the two CSI shows are among the very best 35mm sourced HD transfers out there.
 

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Agree CSI film telecines often look very nice. But assume the transfers aren't being made with the Spirit 4k DataCIne Scanner unveiled a year ago. Understood they'd scan film at double 1080i's 2k (1920X1080) resolution for later downconversion, boosting resolvable video detail, which might partially trickle past ~17-Mbps (video) compression into homes. When and where should we tune in for this? Mars colonization? -- John
 

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I'm not even sure how well HDTV color can be calibrated from a DVD. DVD's use the BT.601 color space while HDTV uses BT.709 color.


I know my Toshiba RPTV has a DTV/DVD setting on each component input which possibly chooses that but I've never seen it documented exactly what that setting really does.


The differences in the two spaces are small, but noticeable. For instance I think that may account for some of the differences between auto upconverts the stations show and possibly why some commercials seem a different color space.


I know there is a very good web page showing the differences around somewhere but I've since lost the link. But here is a side by side picture I made back when I was writing a filter to convert the two:

www.trbarry.com/BT709ToBT601.2.jpg


If your PC is likely calibrated for DVD (BT601) color then the picture on the right should show more natural skin tones. If it is calibrated for HDTV then the one on the left may look more natural.


- Tom


edit: Hey, cool! I only just now found out what that "Quick Edit" button does on the top of each post. ;)
 
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