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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I’ve been considering upgrading my Goldenear LCR to some diy designs. I was looking at various proven designs, but traditionally love ribbon, planar, and AMT tweeters.

I ended up getting a decent deal on 3 Beyma TPL-200/H’s. So I’m completely skipping the basics of DIY speakers and jumping off the deep end with a full custom build.

My plan is three way active, with the tpl-200h, an undecided sealed mid, and the 18ds115 woofer ported.

I hope to find crown dci-n amps to use for power and processing. If not, I will get an ashly 24.24m for processing, and use my current analog dci amps.

Planning 1200hz crossover mid to tweet, maybe 350hz woofer to mid.

For mids, I’m currently most interested in the AE TD10M and TD12M, and the Beyma 12p80ndv2. I’m open to other suggestions.
The ae’s seem to be considered the reference mid, while the beyma is significantly cheaper, higher sensitivity, and has more motor force.
The faital 12fh520 and 12pr300 look promising as well.

The 18ds115 will be in 5cu roughly, tuned to 35hz.
I already have 2 of the 18ds currently in mini devastators, and picked up a third open-box recently.
The mini dev’s will be swapped to a modified version of the mini 21 v4, loaded with nsw6021’s.

I haven’t had time to do much modeling yet for volumes.

I plan to build the woofer modules to 25.5” high x 24” deep x 20” wide. This matches the mini-dev profile and will give me a size-matched front lineup.
Here’s the current setup:


There will be a woofer module between the mini dev’s, and one on each end.

Eventual plan is an at screen even with the front of the cabs. Is there a problem with having the mid and tweet farther back than the woofer?

Since the at screen and new projector are a ways off, this leaves me two options for the center. First is to use my current center and the woofer module as a two-way.
Second is to build a horizontal mtm with the beyma and some 8” mids. The faital 8pr200 looks like an excellent driver. Since I’ll be running 3-way, the b&c 8pe21 (Edit: scratch this one. 8mbx51 and 8mdn51 have potential) may make more sense though.
I should have available processing and amp channels to run this 3.5 way, if that would help.

I’m just at the start of the process, and know I have lots of modeling in my near future. Followed by building and measuring.
I will be able to do outdoor measurements on these.

I’m hoping for some guidance, whether I’m even on the right track here.
Driver suggestions for mids are also appreciated.
@Javs, I believe you use the similar tpl150h’s, the beyma mid, and the faital 8’s. Your guidance would be particularly appreciated.

Bonus pic, tpl-200h’s with my current center:

They’re a whole different scale.

Thanks,
Chris
 

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For mids, I’m currently most interested in the AE TD10M and TD12M, and the Beyma 12p80ndv2. I’m open to other suggestions.

I’m hoping for some guidance, whether I’m even on the right track here.
Driver suggestions for mids are also appreciated.
@Javs , I believe you use the similar tpl150h’s, the beyma mid, and the faital 8’s. Your guidance would be particularly appreciated.
Hey

Good project! I jumped into the deep end too, its very rewarding in the end and worth the time to learn.

I do have some thoughts...

The ae’s seem to be considered the reference mid, while the beyma is significantly cheaper, higher sensitivity, and has more motor force.
The faital 12fh520 and 12pr300 look promising as well.
Considered reference by those that have never tried the Beyma? While I havent tried the AE, I cant fault my Beyma's. If they are significantly cheaper for you (which was the case for me too), I say jump on the Beyma and dont look back. Else, if you were to get the AE, I would get the 10" version not the 12. If Beyma made a 10p80Nd or an 8" I would try those. Not that I hear or even measure the 12" beaming, its just always considered large for a mid and a 10 or 78 mid would measure better polar and probably have slightly more compatible directivity for the TPL, again, not that I really measured any issues with mine, its just 'textbook' reasons. Since the TPL has no issue at all with a 1200hz crossover at 24+db octave (I would know) then there is no probs with a 12" mid, even up to about 1600hz.

Dont bother look at the 12FH520 or 12PR300 for your mid, I am actually using 12FH's for my LF woofers in my old towers and my current center and they are outstanding. They actually measure REALLY well up into the mid range too, but the Beyma has a super light diaphragm and its speed is on a whole other level.

Since the at screen and new projector are a ways off, this leaves me two options for the center. First is to use my current center and the woofer module as a two-way.
Second is to build a horizontal mtm with the beyma and some 8” mids. The faital 8pr200 looks like an excellent driver. Since I’ll be running 3-way, the b&c 8pe21 (Edit: scratch this one. 8mbx51 and 8mdn51 have potential) may make more sense though.
I should have available processing and amp channels to run this 3.5 way, if that would help.
Hmm I would reconsider the horizontal MTM idea, you will have guests sitting right in the middle of lobe cancellations, that's probably the worst possible center configuration that exists... I use my 8" MTM in a vertical config and there is no issues with that, but I wouldnt put it on its side, I wish, I would have done it already, but it wont work.

I would go 3 way for your center too, but use two Faital 6PR160's side by side under the TPL so you dont have any issues with lobing and a couple of 12FH520''s on the sides or two other LF woofers as you planned. I made this speaker twice (with 12FH;'s) for a forum member and his mate and its quite good and a beast of a center speaker, it sounded great and very clear along side my modular towers which use the Beyma mids. It digs down to 40hz with crazy authority and can easily shake the windows on its own.. tested it in isolation with the blade runner intro and my wife thought I had all my subs on.



6PR160



TPL 150H



Speaker:




12p80Nd from my modular tower.

 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hey

Good project! I jumped into the deep end too, its very rewarding in the end and worth the time to learn.

I do have some thoughts...



Considered reference by those that have never tried the Beyma? While I havent tried the AE, I cant fault my Beyma's. If they are significantly cheaper for you (which was the case for me too), I say jump on the Beyma and dont look back. Else, if you were to get the AE, I would get the 10" version not the 12. If Beyma made a 10p80Nd or an 8" I would try those. Not that I hear or even measure the 12" beaming, its just always considered large for a mid and a 10 or 78 mid would measure better polar and probably have slightly more compatible directivity for the TPL, again, not that I really measured any issues with mine, its just 'textbook' reasons. Since the TPL has no issue at all with a 1200hz crossover at 24+db octave (I would know) then there is no probs with a 12" mid, even up to about 1600hz.

Dont bother look at the 12FH520 or 12PR300 for your mid, I am actually using 12FH's for my LF woofers in my old towers and my current center and they are outstanding. They actually measure REALLY well up into the mid range too, but the Beyma has a super light diaphragm and its speed is on a whole other level.



Hmm I would reconsider the horizontal MTM idea, you will have guests sitting right in the middle of lobe cancellations, that's probably the worst possible center configuration that exists... I use my 8" MTM in a vertical config and there is no issues with that, but I wouldnt put it on its side, I wish, I would have done it already, but it wont work.

I would go 3 way for your center too, but use two Faital 6PR160's side by side under the TPL so you dont have any issues with lobing and a couple of 12FH520''s on the sides or two other LF woofers as you planned. I made this speaker twice (with 12FH;'s) for a forum member and his mate and its quite good and a beast of a center speaker, it sounded great and very clear along side my modular towers which use the Beyma mids. It digs down to 40hz with crazy authority and can easily shake the windows on its own.. tested it in isolation with the blade runner intro and my wife thought I had all my subs on.



6PR160



TPL 150H



Speaker:




12p80Nd from my modular tower.


Thanks Javs!

I find glowing reviews of the ae and the beyma, but nothing that anyone has tried both.

Without the apollo upgrade, the td10m is $409. The Beyma is $349 from usspeaker, so not a significant difference.
If I go apollo upgrade, the td is $559.

I can snag some 12p80nd’s off ebay for under $280 shipped, but they are not v2. I believe the v2 is a big upgrade, specifically toward cone breakup.

Good to know on the faital 12’s, thanks.

That center is beautiful, but absolutely won’t fit in my setup. With the planned woofer module, I already have to raise the screen an inch or two to clear the tpl.

That said, I can build a temporary, non-matching woofer module.
20” wide by 36” tall x 24” deep is the limit.
I’d really like to use the 18ds115, as I already have it.
If I push it all the way to the bottom of the cab, I can fit the 6” mids and tpl above it. Might have to get a bit crazy with triangle ports, but should be able to get enough area.

I can get the faital mids from usspeaker for 145 + shipping.
I can get the VERY similar w6n8-120 for $135 shipped from PE, if that will work just as well. If not, I’d rather spend extra than lose performance.

Thanks again,
Chris
 

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Thanks Javs!

I find glowing reviews of the ae and the beyma, but nothing that anyone has tried both.

Without the apollo upgrade, the td10m is $409. The Beyma is $349 from usspeaker, so not a significant difference.
If I go apollo upgrade, the td is $559.

I can snag some 12p80nd’s off ebay for under $280 shipped, but they are not v2. I believe the v2 is a big upgrade, specifically toward cone breakup.

Good to know on the faital 12’s, thanks.

That center is beautiful, but absolutely won’t fit in my setup. With the planned woofer module, I already have to raise the screen an inch or two to clear the tpl.

That said, I can build a temporary, non-matching woofer module.
20” wide by 36” tall x 24” deep is the limit.
I’d really like to use the 18ds115, as I already have it.
If I push it all the way to the bottom of the cab, I can fit the 6” mids and tpl above it. Might have to get a bit crazy with triangle ports, but should be able to get enough area.

I can get the faital mids from usspeaker for 145 + shipping.
I can get the VERY similar w6n8-120 for $135 shipped from PE, if that will work just as well. If not, I’d rather spend extra than lose performance.

Thanks again,
Chris
Got a link to the ebay page? I know what V2 looks like on sight. Are they used? The V2 has been around since 2016

the w6n8-120 wont measure as well. The 6PR160 is a brand new driver from Faital. I was the first to use it. Its really very good.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Got a link to the ebay page? I know what V2 looks like on sight. Are they used? The V2 has been around since 2016

the w6n8-120 wont measure as well. The 6PR160 is a brand new driver from Faital. I was the first to use it. Its really very good.

I know they are v1’s. Double-roll surround instead of triple. Brand new, 4 ohm.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/264759269717

Spend more for the 6pr160, got it. How come the answer to everything around here is spend more?


Honestly surprised the apollo td10m isn’t required too. But I guess you use the Beyma.
Hope I don’t have to buy one of each to play with.

Thanks again,
Chris
 

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I know they are v1’s. Double-roll surround instead of triple. Brand new, 4 ohm.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/264759269717

Spend more for the 6pr160, got it. How come the answer to everything around here is spend more?


Honestly surprised the apollo td10m isn’t required too. But I guess you use the Beyma.
Hope I don’t have to buy one of each to play with.

Thanks again,
Chris
Ah yeah def v1. I wouldnt buy those.

I havent tried the AE drivers, And frankly I am not interested in them being in Australia. I get the Beymas landed directly from Beyma having trade pricing not interested in full price AE drivers... From what you were saying even your pricing is $150 each higher or so for the phase plug, thats still too high. If you go over to DIYAudio a lot of people are using the 12P80 with the TPL for a reason.

I would try the AE to see what the fuss is about but I am really not sure I would hear a difference worthy of the extra money it would cost to get them.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Ah yeah def v1. I wouldnt buy those.

I havent tried the AE drivers, And frankly I am not interested in them being in Australia. I get the Beymas landed directly from Beyma having trade pricing not interested in full price AE drivers... From what you were saying even your pricing is $150 each higher or so for the phase plug, thats still too high. If you go over to DIYAudio a lot of people are using the 12P80 with the TPL for a reason.

I would try the AE to see what the fuss is about but I am really not sure I would hear a difference worthy of the extra money it would cost to get them.

Yup, there was some rapid driver-identification when I found that listing, lol.

The apollo upgrade isn’t the phase plug, that’s standard.
Here’s their writeup:
http://aespeakers.com/apollo-upgrade-the-ultimate-low-distortion-option/

Again, they’re similar cost to me without apollo. I might have to post over on diyaudio to see if anyone has tried both.

Thanks,
Chris
 

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Man, can't wait for this build to get started. I'll be following every step of the way:)
 

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Without the apollo upgrade, the td10m is $409. The Beyma is $349 from usspeaker, so not a significant difference.
If I go apollo upgrade, the td is $559.
As you are in the USA, the TD10M is the best option, no need to get the Apolo upgrade for home use.
The TD10M will allow for a higher crossover point, thus giving you a wide range of crossover points to try.

Moreover, if for some reason one driver gets damaged, it should be easier to get it repaired by AE.
 

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What about the TD15M, seems like that is the gold standard from AE.. I have seen two measurements showing -6db at 40 deg off axis at around ~1200 hz which matches the TPL horn; one of them was on diyaudio. It may limit your crossover points but if you are already thinking 1200 then it may work. It's been a while but seems like the TD15M with its curvilinear profile wasn't too far off the TD12M in terms when it started beaming.
 

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Should be able to get away with a 1.5khz XO, definitely want to stay away from that 5.5khz peak.

You may also want to boost the 10k-20khz flat *if* that doesn't make it sound too bright or increase the wattage/strain too much.

Other than that, looks good.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
As you are in the USA, the TD10M is the best option, no need to get the Apolo upgrade for home use.
The TD10M will allow for a higher crossover point, thus giving you a wide range of crossover points to try.

Moreover, if for some reason one driver gets damaged, it should be easier to get it repaired by AE.

Hmm, one vote for the ae, one for Beyma. I hope I don’t have to buy one of each and see what measures/sounds better. It is an option though.

I’m not too concerned with damaging a mid. Should be the least likely of three drivers to fail in this setup.
Still, a valid point.

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter #13
What about the TD15M, seems like that is the gold standard from AE.. I have seen two measurements showing -6db at 40 deg off axis at around ~1200 hz which matches the TPL horn; one of them was on diyaudio. It may limit your crossover points but if you are already thinking 1200 then it may work. It's been a while but seems like the TD15M with its curvilinear profile wasn't too far off the TD12M in terms when it started beaming.

I’m pretty sure I’ll go with the TD10m if I go AE.
I’m not sure what the advantage of the larger drivers would be in this system.
With the 18ds115 bringing up the low end, I certainly shouldn’t need more displacement.
Since I’ll be running active, with 600w available to the mid, sensitivity matching shouldn’t matter too much.

The 10 is similarly sized to the tpl, and will require a smaller cab. That plus the crossover option seems to be a win.

Chris
 

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I’ve only ever seen one other project use the TPL200, kind of excited to see the outcome of this.

BTW I vote for BMS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I’ve only ever seen one other project use the TPL200, kind of excited to see the outcome of this.

BTW I vote for BMS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’ve only seen one project use them as well.
This one: https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/build-thread-ae-td10m-beyma-tpl-200h.1510/
Luckily (or sadly), I now own that pair of tpl-200h’s.

I was planning on tpl-150h’s, but got a decent deal on the 200’s.

What BMS are you suggesting? I didn’t look at them very close, as they seem to be very hard to get in the US. A quick look at the 12” shows nothing as good as the Beyma or AE.

Chris
 

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Should be able to get away with a 1.5khz XO, definitely want to stay away from that 5.5khz peak.

You may also want to boost the 10k-20khz flat *if* that doesn't make it sound too bright or increase the wattage/strain too much.

Other than that, looks good.
I think thats the 6PR160 you are looking at?
 

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I’m pretty sure I’ll go with the TD10m if I go AE.
Superb driver. I have 4 and have used them in a number of projects the last being my TD15/TD10/CD+WG surrounds.


The next use for them after the move is a 2xTD10, ATC SM75/150S mid and TPL150H active 3 way.


One thing to note is the frame is a bit larger than most pro 10's.
 

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I’ve only seen one project use them as well.
This one: https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/build-thread-ae-td10m-beyma-tpl-200h.1510/
Luckily (or sadly), I now own that pair of tpl-200h’s.

I was planning on tpl-150h’s, but got a decent deal on the 200’s.

What BMS are you suggesting? I didn’t look at them very close, as they seem to be very hard to get in the US. A quick look at the 12” shows nothing as good as the Beyma or AE.

Chris

Oops meant the Beyma, have BMS on the mind

You can order BMS drivers through Assistance audio, if you were to ever want to give most BMS drivers a shot.


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