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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Since having recently seen Star Wars shown digitally at my local Century Theater, I have been thinking that D-Cinema is currently no better than a high-end D-ILA based home theater. I cannot see how, other than source software superiority, a commercial D-Cinema beats many of the home theaters right here on this forum. A properly calibrated D-ILA + Panamorph (or ISCO II) + Scaler (Faroudja, CI, Etc.) + soundsystem, seating, Greyhawk, etc. will clearly give D-Cinema a run for its money. Furthermore, if Star Wars Episode II ever makes its way to HD DVHS (I won't hold my breath) then I can really see the home setup winning. The D-Cinema projectors are currently SXGA (max - I have even heard of XGA) and DLP has a smaller aperature thus more visble picture structure and when we start feeding the home systems HD movies how can they really be any better. I understand that they are way ahead in lumens, but that is required for a 30' screen. In fact, I am interested to see what they measure at the screen. A D-ILA is pretty bright on a 9' screen. So am I crazy?
 

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> A properly calibrated D-ILA + Panamorph (or ISCO II) + Scaler (Faroudja, CI, Etc.)


(Sorry about not remaining strictly on topic.) The Faroudja NRS+ doesn't have any digital outputs. For the G150CL, it's not the best choice. But I've never heard of the CI (whatever that may be). Are there other video processors that do as good a job as the NRS+ but DO have DVI-out?
 

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D-Cinema is at its inception... 10 years time it will be commonplace and viable (IMHO)
 

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What I personally think is that even 1920x1080 isn't a high enough resolution to compete with 35mm film, and 2048x1536 is barely sufficient for an average-sized screen; it wouldn't be good for atypically large screens, and IMAX would obviously be out of the question.


Ten years sounds about right. Ironically, I expect the quality of home theater to surpass that of the typical moviegoing experience before then. Fortunately for theater owners, there's just no replacement for a really large room with hundreds of cheering moviegoers.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by gotapex
Is this the D-Cinema system you're talking about?

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/digital/2k.shtml
Not if he saw it in a theater. The only D-Cinema projectors in theaters are SXGA resolution DLP based projectors.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Colmino
> A properly calibrated D-ILA + Panamorph (or ISCO II) + Scaler (Faroudja, CI, Etc.)


(Sorry about not remaining strictly on topic.) The Faroudja NRS+ doesn't have any digital outputs. For the G150CL, it's not the best choice. But I've never heard of the CI (whatever that may be). Are there other video processors that do as good a job as the NRS+ but DO have DVI-out?
Colmino,


The CI is the Crystal Image scaler.


For a stand-alone scaler, you currently can't beat the Faroudjas. Sure they lack DVI out - and so do all the

other stand-alone scalers.


If you want DVI interconnection - you need to go with an HTPC. However, that may not be best. Currently there are

few video cards that have DVI out. Some of the best video cards with the best scaling algorithms do not have DVI.


Given a choice between a high order scaling algorithm and no DVI, and low order scaling with DVI - tests have shown the

higher order scaling without DVI wins.


Dr. Gregory Greenman

Physicist
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Morbius


For a stand-alone scaler, you currently can't beat the Faroudjas. Sure they lack DVI out - and so do all the

other stand-alone scalers.
The new Focus Enhancements "Center Stage" stand-alone scaler has DVI out according to their blurb:
http://www.focusinfo.com/products/ce...enterstage.htm

I'm not sure if they're shipping yet. I just saw this the other day on the Video Processors forum. Focus Enhancements is the company that makes the QuadScan scalers.


- Chris
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Satterlee


The new Focus Enhancements "Center Stage" stand-alone scaler has DVI out according to their blurb:
http://www.focusinfo.com/products/ce...enterstage.htm

I'm not sure if they're shipping yet. I just saw this the other day on the Video Processors forum. Focus Enhancements is the company that makes the QuadScan scalers.


- Chris
Chris,


Thanks for the update.


Dr. Gregory Greenman

Physicist
 

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Looks like the Faroudja Digital Cinema Source (NRS w. build in DVD player) has a DVI output. (link)


is this actually out? did not see any info on the Faroudja web site.

-jeff
 

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Key Digital has had a viable all digital pathway to the display device for quite some time. SDI in , DVI out with multiple refresh rates.
 

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...as do HTPCs.
 

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Morbius, have you looked for a video card lately? 90% on the market have DVI out
 

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I'm waiting on a commoner nVidia card with DVI output for less than $200. there are some video cards in the $350 range with two DVI outputs!
 

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I believe Faroudja will do scalers with DVI out- either now by request or in the near future. also the key digital scaler has dvi output as well as the taw rock series. to take full advantage of this- you want a digital input to the scaler
 

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> If you want DVI interconnection - you need to go with an HTPC. However, that may not be best. Currently there are

few video cards that have DVI out. Some of the best video cards with the best scaling algorithms do not have DVI.


> Morbius, have you looked for a video card lately? 90% on the market have DVI out


The question I have is.. Would sending Svideo to a HTPC, figuring out a way to scale it to 1368x1024, and then sending it directly to a projector result in an image as good as or better than just passing it through a Faroudja NRS+?


Keep in mind that (far as I have been told) in order to be able to manipulate the video at all, one would need to use a capture card that is compatible with Dscaler. Dscaler is supposed to deinterlace the video. I've seen the example screenshots. The game screenshots were in half-res and the shot from Titanic wasn't fully deinterlaced. But then I've also read that NO deinterlacer will ever be perfect.


I've just about decided that the HTPC should only be used for DVDs and PC-originalted video (and Dilard control), and the rest should be handed over to the NRS+. And I'm thinking a future project will be the SDI modification of a DVD player so I can get the user-friendly functionality associated with non-PC devices, while still enjoying the picture quality a HTPC can enable.
 

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I read in the guest speakers thread that Tim Stites (JVC) feels that a well calibrated G-15 will do as well as a DVI connected G150.


Knowing that the 16:9 DILA is on the way soon, perhaps a calibrated G15 is the way to go for know and let the whole DVI situation shake out until the next generation of PJs, sources, etc.


Anyone agree?


Jeff
 

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> I read in the guest speakers thread that Tim Stites (JVC) feels that a well calibrated G-15 will do as well as a DVI connected G150.


Hmm. Well in my case, the primary draw of the G150CL is the reduced noise and heat, plus increased lamp life. Supposedly it also has superior electronics, although the nature of this feature isn't really covered in detail. The DVI-in is definitely appealing. I will at least be 100% certain that the image I'm seeing from DVDs is as analog-free as can be.


> Knowing that the 16:9 DILA is on the way soon, perhaps a calibrated G15 is the way to go for know and let the whole DVI situation shake out until the next generation of PJs, sources, etc.


I picked a bad time to start jumping into the whole Home Theater thing. Panels are alternating between 4:3 and 16:9 as resolutions increase horizontally then vertically, and I'm stuck with 4:3 unless I want to wait until probably well into Summer.


I'm not looking forward to the sacrifices inherent in using an anamorphic lens (besides the astronomical prices), and HTPCs haven't yet matured into the video processor-replacements I know they can be.


And speakers? Where's digital wiring? Where's HyperSonic Sound(tm)?


In fact, really the only thing that is beginning to approach the performance level I was waiting for is projectors, as they slowly solve the fill-factor issue and get closer and closer to 1920x1080. Still waiting on: 100% fill-factor, full HD support, judder-free 24Hz (or multiple) support. (Save the urge to mention CRTs for the other forum.)


And yes, I'll have fries with that.
 

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Colmino,

you want digital wiring for your speakers? Pony up for a Meridian all digital system.


I am not sure I understand your reluctance to utilize an anamorphic lens in the context of purchasing a 10k+ projector. On a powerbuy you could purchase an Isco or Panamorph for about 1K. Because it is unlikely that anybody will produce a 16:9 consumer priced LCOS with higher resolution than 1365*768, you will have improved light output and pixel density with the lens and the currenct SXGA+ 4:3 panel. Assuming you would purchase a scaler for your NTSC sources, there are no usability issues that require extreme measures. The scaler will take care of all the AR chores necessary to produce the correct presentation of the image on the screen. Determine the throw and projector height correctly, and there will be no mounting problems.


I do not believe that the HTPC solution for scaling/deinterlacing video material has come as far as DCDI. If you wish to have DVI with DCDI wait for the DVD/NR or Vigatec (with the F chip). Vig will have the deinterlacing of the F with the ability to scale to multiple resolutions and have SDI inputs which would allow other sources (SDI modded satellite receivers/DTIVOS) to have a complete digital path to the PJ. Faroudja has made statements that they will not produce a scaler at this price point with SDI in. As mentioned earlier, Key digital has the Leeza that already had a complete digital path, but it does not have DCDI for deinterlacing of Video material.
 

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"I do not believe that the HTPC solution for scaling/deinterlacing video material has come as far as DCDI."


True. But it's in our sights, though! More and more we're starting to hear about "subjectitve" criteria.
 
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