[yatlee]

I'm really tempted to see D-theater in action. However, with all the problem in the JVC and no clear path of resolution make me think twice.


I am curious to know how long this foramt will last with only one D-theater enabled machine in the market and no news on other machine coming?

 

[XFactor]

The format will last until HD-DVDs are available that parallel the PQ available on D-VHS and DTheater. More specifically, once an HD-DVD recorder is available. It really is a niche product that is a temporary solution.

 

[Michael James]

So D-Theater tapes can't play on a Panny HD-1000?

 

[fcsmith]

I've seen posts on this board saying that Sharp will be coming out with a DTheater model, but I haven't seen anything official from Sharp.

 

[dialog_gvf]

Quote:

Originally posted by Michael James So D-Theater tapes can't play on a Panny HD-1000?

No, DTheater data is encrypted and I expect the format on the tape is different from normal DVHS. It couldn't be read, and the data couldn't be decoded by non-DTheater decks.


There is a rumour that Sharp is planning to introduce a DTheater deck next spring.


It's really up to the videophile consumer whether the selection will come. If people show interest, the hardware products will be created. If they show contempt, then hardware makers will pass.


Right now I'd say there is 60-70% wait for HD-DVD attitude. Very patient people. That probably does not bode well for a large selection of DTheater decks.


People are assuming that HD-DVD will come fast and high quality. I think it will be fast (

For me, I expect to be considering my next HD monitor before HD-DVD sees the light of day. So, it would be a complete waste with so little HD content to ignore the highest quality source of HD content available today.

 

[Dean Roddey]

As a practical matter, there doesn't need to be more than one model as long as it works. Some folks would say it doesn't work well, but most of us haven't had any problems at all. It seems to be the usual issue with new devices where there can be a good bit of variability in issues that various early adopters have. I've had no problems.


Obviously it would be nice to have other vendors doing decks, if for no other reason than visibility, though some competition would help, too. But I'm not necessarily sure that having just JVC decks would make that big a difference for it's survival or not. There are probably other issues that will have more weight on that front.


Personally, I don't expect HD-DVD in a year. It will be nice if it happens, but as previously indicated, if it arrives quick it's a lot more likely to be red laser based which means it won't even be able to shine D-Theater's shoes probably in terms of PQ and won't likely support long features without a flip or second disc.

 

[fire407]

I haven't had any problems with my deck either. While I know many people on this forum have had major problems, I would be curious to know how many decks are out there that are working correctly. It seems only the owners with problems are weighing in. I would still encourage people to buy this deck, as D-Theater is absolutely the best quality you can get at home, unless you have a professional D5 or HDBeta machine.

 

[Auditor55]

Quote:

Originally posted by dialog_gvf No, DTheater data is encrypted and I expect the format on the tape is different from normal DVHS. It couldn't be read, and the data couldn't be decoded by non-DTheater decks. There is a rumour that Sharp is planning to introduce a DTheater deck next spring. It's really up to the videophile consumer whether the selection will come. If people show interest, the hardware products will be created. If they show contempt, then hardware makers will pass. Right now I'd say there is 60-70% wait for HD-DVD attitude. Very patient people. That probably does not bode well for a large selection of DTheater decks. .

That is why I believe D-VHS should be rejected by the consumer, so companies can spend more R&D time on HD-DVD. Video tape should be put to rest for good. We as consumers should send a clear message to the manufacturers, we don't want another tape format but we want a high defintion opitical disk format. I'm not willing to give up the features that comes with DVD to go back to a tape format. After seeing a demo D-Theater, I wasn't as blown away as I thought I would be, which really make me want to pass on D-VHS. D-VHS and D-Theater is going to fail, I don't think it will ever catch on with the masses, it will be a niche format, and once HD-DVD hits the market D-VHS will be gone for good even among the videophiles.


With many studios not signing on to D-Theater, the fact that its a tape format, high price for the movies($44.00), poor marketing, where can someone go to demo it, very little hardware support, this format is doomed to fail. Just like SACD, which is only supported by a few hardware manufacturers, Sony, Pioneer, Marantz & Phillips with very little software support, a few hundred SACD's, SACD is doomed to fail. It seem other manufacturers, Panasonic, Toshiba, Denon, Onkyo, are behind DVD-A, both formats have very little software support. I own a DVD-A player and A SACD player and both of them are gathering dust, as I don't need either to play CD's.


D-VHS, SACD, DVD-A, are three formats, in my opinion that are on a fast path to failure.

 

[dialog_gvf]

Quote:

Originally posted by Auditor55 After seeing a demo D-Theater, I wasn't as blown away as I thought I would be, which really make me want to pass on D-VHS. D-VHS and D-Theater is going to fail, I don't think it will ever catch on with the masses, it will be a niche format, and once HD-DVD hits the market D-VHS will be gone for good even among the videophiles.

If DTheater doesn't blow you away, HD-DVD probably won't either.


What makes you think HD-DVD will catch on with the masses? HD hasn't.


What makes you think flat out rejecting the DTheater format will be a positive thing for HD-DVD in the minds of the manufacturers and studios?


At this point it isn't even clear HD-DVD will match DTheater bit-rate specs. They could go with a broadcast (19.4Mbps) rate and red lasers. Early and cheaper, but not up to DTheater specs.


Wait all you want for a non-existant format aimed at an unclear audience. In the upcoming 3-5 years you may be waiting, myself and other enthusiasts will be enjoying the HD movies.


And when HD-DVD does come available, and assuming it matches DTheater quality, then there will be selection and price issues to allow DTheater some lifetime beyond HD-DVD.


Gary

 

[Auditor55]

Quote:

Originally posted by dialog_gvf If DTheater doesn't blow you away, HD-DVD probably won't either. What makes you think HD-DVD will catch on with the masses? HD hasn't. What makes you think flat out rejecting the DTheater format will be a positive thing for HD-DVD in the minds of the manufacturers and studios? At this point it isn't even clear HD-DVD will match DTheater bit-rate specs. They could go with a broadcast (19.4Mbps) rate and red lasers. Early and cheaper, but not up to DTheater specs. Wait all you want for a non-existant format aimed at an unclear audience. In the upcoming 3-5 years you may be waiting, myself and other enthusiasts will be enjoying the HD movies. And when HD-DVD does come available, and assuming it matches DTheater quality, then there will be selection and price issues to allow DTheater some lifetime beyond HD-DVD. Gary

What you don't understand is that people like the optical disc format, as witnessed by the success of CD and DVD. The masses love chapter search, extra's, DTS(multiple language tracks), DVD-ROM access etc. You get none this with a tape format like D-VHS, but you do get wear and tear of a tape format. Its not always about the picture quality that makes a format successful, its certain pratical things that the optical disc format offers. D-VHS is taking the consumer backwards while attempting to move us forward, D-VHS only offers high resolution picture quality and nothing else, while HD-DVD will give us everything the current DVD has to offer plus high resolution picture quality.


We need to stop jumping on everything these manufacturers put out on the market, stop practicing blind and isane consumerism of wanting to be the first person with a new toy, and start letting them know what we want, that ultimately will be better for all consumers. HD-DVD.

 

[rrg]

Fine. Then go away, ignore D-VHS, and leave us alone here to pursue our misguided hobbies in peace.


You think this subject hasn't already been discussed to death, here and many other places? This discussion is utterly boring to most of us here. Don't imagine you have some new slant to provide on it.


I don't make my buying decisions based on wishes for some imagined future good. I'm not going to decline to use D-VHS (which I've been doing for more than two years, accumulating a wonderful collection in the process) so that you can have HD-DVD sooner.


You make your buying decisions, I'll make mine. The free market will decide what we'll both get in the future, and when we'll get it.

 

[dialog_gvf]

Quote:

Originally posted by rrg Fine. Then go away, ignore D-VHS, and leave us alone here to pursue our misguided hobbies in peace. ... I'm not going to decline to use D-VHS (which I've been doing for more than two years, accumulating a wonderful collection in the process) so that you can have HD-DVD sooner.

And that is a key point. There are those who want DTheater to go away because the perceive as a risk to early availability of HD-DVD. Reject DTheater and HD-DVD will be out next year (sic).


Instead, the reality is that DTheater is testing the waters and showing the studios whether or not the HD content would have a significant audience. It is also setting the bar for the level of quality that enthusiasts will demand from HD-DVD.


These people don't realize that their anti-DTheater attitude may ultimately DELAY or cripple HD-DVD. Perhaps for a considerable length of time.


Gary

 

[h2ofun]

Gary, way too logical.


Dave

 

[Auditor55]

Quote:

Originally posted by dialog_gvf And that is a key point. There are those who want DTheater to go away because the perceive as a risk to early availability of HD-DVD. Reject DTheater and HD-DVD will be out next year (sic). Instead, the reality is that DTheater is testing the waters and showing the studios whether or not the HD content would have a significant audience. It is also setting the bar for the level of quality that enthusiasts will demand from HD-DVD. These people don't realize that their anti-DTheater attitude may ultimately DELAY or cripple HD-DVD. Perhaps for a considerable length of time. Gary

You don't get it, reject D-VHS because it is already a doomed format, the fact that its a taped based medium I don't think it has a chance, its wasted time doing research & development.. Who wants to buy $40 dollar movies on casette tapes.

 

[dialog_gvf]

Quote:

Originally posted by Auditor55 You don't get it, reject D-VHS because it is already a doomed format, the fact that its a taped based medium I don't think it has a chance, its wasted time doing research & development.. Who wants to buy $40 dollar movies on casette tapes.

Reject away. But, the enthusiasts still have the right to make a choice.


I support your right to reject. But, clearly you are spooked by people having a choice.



All formats are doomed. But, the product continues. I frequently watch Laserdiscs I purchased 10 years ago. Laserdisc is already long dead. So what? Should I have not bought into Laserdisc because it was doomed?


DVD is doomed. Should everyone stop buying that too?


People who want the very best picture quality available will pay $40 for HD movies on tape. Just like people who wanted the best picture quality once paid $80 for Laserdiscs.


Why build production facilities to satisfy a need that clearly doesn't exist? You are obviously satisified with the video quality you're getting today, so why should anyone be rushing to supply you with the next generation?

 

[Pannyman]

Auditor55,


Most of the available D-Theater movies are selling for $24.03, not $40. Go to bestprices.com to see.


You've got a looooooong way to wait for recordable HD-DVD. Enjoy the wait In the meantime, me and my D-VHS buddies will enjoy this doomed tape based medium.


-Pannyman

 

[h2ofun]

Since tape is dead, I guess we wont have any movies left since all the masters are on D5 tape!!


Dave

 

[Auditor55]

Quote:

Originally posted by Pannyman Auditor55, Most of the available D-Theater movies are selling for $24.03, not $40. Go to bestprices.com to see. You've got a looooooong way to wait for recordable HD-DVD. Enjoy the wait In the meantime, me and my D-VHS buddies will enjoy this doomed tape based medium. -Pannyman

If you had a choice between D-VHS and HD-DVD, which would you prefer?


What get's me annoyed by some consumers is that they are just to gullible and their gullibility does a disservice to all other consumers. D-VHS/D-Theater reminds me of Divx, many of us were happy that Divx eventually failed, but I'm sure a few consumers bought into it, especially those who seem to have insatialble lust to be the first one on the block to own something, no matter how their support of it hurts the rest of the consumer. I'm saying that D-VHS/D-Theater is bad idea, an Idea I feel should be rejected by the consumer, that way the manufacturers will get on their way to releasing HD-DVD.


Remember "good things come to those who wait" & "patience is a virtue"

 

[Pannyman]

Auditor55,


Divx???!!! That analogy is rediculous.


There is no HD-DVD right now and won't be for a long time. Especially a recordable version, so I choose D-VHS. Not because I want to be first on the block but because I want Hidef movies and the ability to timeshift Hidef OTA content.


And anyway, I don't have time for this nonsense. I have to go hook up my Samsung SIR-T165 OTA STB so that I can record OTA Hidef today, the year 2002. It will be so cool to record the Superbowl in all its 720p glory, which my RPTV can handle without upconverting to 1080i.


Remember "good things come to those who wait" & "patience is a virtue"...rinse...repeat...


-Pannyman

 

[dialog_gvf]

Quote:

Originally posted by Auditor55 If you had a choice between D-VHS and HD-DVD, which would you prefer?

If a possible future should severely impact the choices of today, why should anyone buy into HD? A while back I saw an announcement for SuperHD, a proposed next gen with four times the resolution of crappy old HD.


So, HD is doomed. Why not wait for SuperHD?


Maybe I should go on a tirade against HD because it might delay SuperHD. Or, maybe I should admit that I have no idea if and when SuperHD will be available and that everyone should consider what is available today, enjoy today's best, and not get wrapped up with some pipe dream of tomorrow.


We have no choice, today. And you define no spec for the basis of your hypothetical. But, if HD-DVD was broadcast rate, I'd choose DTheater. Picture quality is all that matters. If HD-DVD was equal or better to DTheater, I would of course purchase HD-DVDs. And, I'd keep and watch my DTheater tapes too. And I'd use my D-VHS deck for many other things.


People have the right to make choices. And I defend your right to not make the best home recordings, not watch the best content, and to sit and wait.


And wait.


And wait.