[Bulldogger]

Anyone familiar with this screen. It is a gray screen like the Steward grayhawk but with a gain of .80 instead of .85. How is the quality of Da-lite compared to Stewart?

 

[kelliot]

I've seen both and I think the Greyhawk currently is superior for most HT applications. Its the best general use product available today. IMO, Dalite has yet to get their act together and demonstrate a viable product.


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Ken Elliott

 

[Blake Brubaker - Da-Lite]

Ken,


Thank you so much for your vote of confidence!! I wonder have you really done an A-B comparison of the two fabrics? (one with our lighter grey 0.8 gain fabric) If not I would appreciate it if you would before passing judgement.


Thank you,

Blake



Bulldogger,


I would encourage you to get a sample of our HC DA-Mat fabric and a sample of Stewart's fabric. I think you will find that there are very few differences. Another thing to keep in mind, while this fabric is very cool and works very well, it is designed for rooms with very little ambient light and a projector bright enough to handle the drop in gain. Just to make a sweeping statement that all gray fabrics are the best thing since sliced bread would be overstating the use of this type of fabric. To say that could mean that the wrong screen could be put into the wrong application and you would be very unhappy with the results. Now, don't get me wrong. I do think that in the right environment with the right set up this fabric is spectacular.


I hope this helps you and if you would like a sample of our HC Da-Mat, please either call us at 800-622-3737 or e-mail us at [email protected]


Thanks for the question,


Blake


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Blake


[This message has been edited by Blake Brubaker - Da-Lite (edited 02-27-2001).]


[This message has been edited by Blake Brubaker - Da-Lite (edited 02-27-2001).]

 

[Srgtfury]

I have a Da Lite (1 month old=new) 0.8 HC 139X78 screen, with a G15 throwing 27 feet. I have posted that Don Stewart could come by-his company office is reasonably close and do an A/B. Still open for a comparison and I have both a 1000 hour and new bulb. The room has good, but not perfect light control in daylight hours, so it is easy to do those type of comparisons in a few hours time, I would suppose.


Rich

 

[Bulldogger]

So Srgtfury, I take it you are well please with your screen?

 

[kelliot]

Blake,


I requested and have received two samples of HC DaMat, the second after the "0.8" batch was formulated and both were clearly closer to 0.4 gain. I also responded to your following post calling attention to that fact without a response.

http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000773.html


Based on these my A/B comparison of these, the Stewart is clearly superior for most people. When I get a sample of a true 0.8 gain material, I'll be more than happy to give it an honest look. You have my address. Please feel free to send me another sample. Until I see it, the HC DaMat is 0.4 or just vaporware, IMO.


I do feel that there is room in the marketplace for a range of material with different gains. The Stewart material is very close to optimal for most current HT digital projectors. Actually one can do quite well with a DIY screen. If its paint just use a good sprayer.


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Ken Elliott

 

[Srgtfury]

Dog,


I like the image quite a lot on the current HC screen, but am anxious to see what the Stewart product would show, especially with the older bulb. I just have never seen the Stewart, anywhere and have an ideal real world situation to test it in for DILA applications.


Ken,


I also received the "new" sample of Da Lite's HC screen, which was as you described-no change from the old sample. The new screen that I received (after considerable interaction prior to shipping from DA Lite) is MUCH different and, although I don't have a method of measuring gain, seems the 0.8 mentioned. It is considerably lighter than the "new" sample they sent me, therefore.


Blake,


You posted that the HC screen appears non-gray and that one perceives it as white when not illuminated by the projector, as i remember, but my DA Lite HC appears gray from 30 feet away. Please comment


Fury

 

[Bulldogger]

I spoke with Blake and he said that samples were made at different gains before the screen went into productions. Some of those samples were sent out in error which appear dark gray. But the current screen in production is a light gray. The samples sent out in error were .6 gain but no screens should have been made with this material. I decide to go with Da-lite. If it is possible to have a good screen by using grey paint and painting your wall, surely da-lite can make a good screen. Blake assured me that the screen I recieve will be .8 gain. The Stewart may be better, I do not know. But Da-light makes a tensioned electic screen in the size I wanted, 80 inches by 45 inches that cost less than the Stewart Lexus comminicator that is a pulldown model. My dealer made me a good deal and my fiancee is "tickled pink" that we are going to have a "cool" electric screen. She was not happy with me buying an expensive screen but she did a "180" when she saw the electric screen. Women!


[This message has been edited by Bulldogger (edited 02-28-2001).]


[This message has been edited by Bulldogger (edited 03-01-2001).]

 

[kelliot]

I hope Blake is sending me another sample. I visited Stewartland and was quite impressed, I hope this doesn't influence his decision.


I'm also playing with the idea of trying out some more paint spraying with a better paint sprayer. It might make a nice weekend project. Any spraying experts out there? (Please watch your humor).


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Ken Elliott

 

[kelliot]

Still no sample or response. I'll reserve comment a little longer.


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Ken Elliott

 

[Bulldogger]

Do you need his phone number? I have had no problems contacting him and he has been very helpful. He seemed concerned about people mistaking the wrong samples as the ones used to make the screen now in production. I am surprised that you have not heard back from him.

 

[Blake Brubaker - Da-Lite]

Ken,


I finally found your address from an e-mail that we traded back in October of last year. (Good thing I didn't purge my e-mail yet) I will make sure a complete sample booklet is sent out to you today.


Thanks,




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Blake

 

[kelliot]

Thanks, Blake


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Ken Elliott

 

[Bulldogger]

Kelliot, when you get the samples let me know how much a difference you see. If you feel the Stewart is better, can you say by how much? Do not let your little "tour" impress you so that you are biased against Da-lite, lol! Da-lite just offered a much better value for me. I wanted to add 36 inches of drop to my screen and this alone would have cost several hundred dollars for the Stewart but it was only 60 dollars on the Da-lite model.Why does black fabric that is not used for the surface of the screen cost so much? I know you get what you pay for but sometimes a 50.00 leather belt does the job as well as a 100.00 one if you know what I mean.

 

[KBK]

Quote:

Originally posted by Bulldogger: Kelliot, when you get the samples let me know how much a difference you see. If you feel the Stewart is better, can you say by how much? Do not let your little "tour" impress you so that you are biased against Da-lite, lol! Da-lite just offered a much better value for me. I wanted to add 36 inches of drop to my screen and this alone would have cost several hundred dollars for the Stewart but it was only 60 dollars on the Da-lite model.Why does black fabric that is not used for the surface of the screen cost so much? I know you get what you pay for but sometimes a 50.00 leather belt does the job as well as a 100.00 one if you know what I mean.

The Stewart screen material is what is being covered up here.. .and that material is quite expensive to manufacture, compared to almost every other manufactured screen out there. This is why it is so expensive to order it with the top 36"'s masked. It may as well have been a screen ordered with the larger surface... same costs involved to Stewart.. and they have to spend the time masking the screen as well!


For example, it would probably cost 1/2 as much if they went through the trouble of putting a different material at the top of the screen, and sewing the real screen on beneath the masking. The big problem is that it would not roll flat anymore, and a line would end up appearing across the screen when it is rolled, so... no cheap masking.

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goosystems.com


[This message has been edited by KBK (edited 03-06-2001).]

 

[Bulldogger]

Thanks KBK, that makes sense.

 

[kelliot]

Bulldogger,


I'm looking forward to getting the samples. I'm out of town until Friday. I'm just hoping to see them when I get back. If I get another 0.4 sample HC-DaMat, I'll begin to wonder what's up. I have confidence that it won't happen and that Dalite has a new mix.


I'm learning there are intangibles with screens like flatness and uniformity that can have a influence on what you see. Some viewers are more sensitive to these than others. Its important for buyers to be confident in the manufacturer. Some are better others. One can read posts about screens shipped folded rather than rolled. This is inexcusable IMO. I don't recall complaints about either Stewart or Dalite in this respect.


From my tour, I know that Stewart takes extraordinary measures to keep screens flat.

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Ken Elliott


[This message has been edited by kelliot (edited 03-06-2001).]

 

[kelliot]

I got my revised DaLite samples today.


Finally the gray level is coming close to 80%. Also, the texture is smooth vinyl and the gray is a neutral gray with no obvious tinting. In fact, its almost an exact match to the color of my gray fabric. I have no way of measuring gain from a projected image and can't comment on the absolute gain curves.


In comparison with the Greyhawk, the materials are a different color. Whether this is good or bad, I can't say. The Greyhawk is heavier, thicker material. The Greyhawk has a harder surface using a fingernail scratch test, but the HC DaMat is reasonable durable although I'd be careful of sharp pointed objects around it. Both materials should provide benefit under increased ambient conditions.


Blake sent a volume of samples. From a cursory examination with Sunday afternoon ambient on the DirecTV HD demo, the HC DaMat and the HiPower, as expected, give the best image. The HC DaMat has better black level, but the HiPower tends to compensate with the brighter image and reduced scattering.


If DaLite could combine the two, it would be an interesting combination.



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Ken Elliott

 

[Bulldogger]

Kelliot, do you think a very bright projector would give better results with the Da-mat high contrast? I have a carpenter doing work on my home so I bought the screen in advance so that I could have it installed. Cousin's video gave me a great deal and they sell Sanyo stuff. They sent me the information on the V-60, well at least as much as they had. This will likely be the combination that I will use.

 

[kelliot]

I don't know much about that model. The new Sanyo's are getting rave reviews. The XP-21 looks especially interesting, apparently there is a review on Projector Central.


With a bright image use a gray screen. You can get a bright image by using a smaller image or a brighter projector. The DaLite, the Greyhawk and DIY screens are your only options IMO. After multiplying by the gain, I wouldn't go below 20 ft-lamberts. Don't forget that projector manufacturers cheat on their brightness specs. I'd derate the 20 ft-lamberts by at least a factor of two to account for optimization of the image, bulb aging, etc.


Both Dalite and Stewart have seemed to optimize for 1000-1500 lumen projectors. Brighter projectors will work better but may require DIY screens since no darker screens are readily available to my knowledge.


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Ken Elliott