[conan48]

So, I got my HP screen and while I love the extra brightness, I have noticed streaks all over the screen. I'm coming from a carada BW screen and it has no texture at all.


Is it common for HP screens to have streaks? It kinda looks like vertical banding you would see on LCD flat panels. I have a model B 109". I thought the HP surface was supposed to be texture free, but the streaks/bands are mostly on the right side and noticeable on mainly light or white coloured backgrounds.


Also, I thought the screen would be smoother to the touch. The carada is very smooth, but the HP has a slight grain to the material. While it is brighter then the Carada, it doesn't seem 2 x brighter. On the box it just said High Gain. Could they have shipped the wrong material? The screen is marked as 109" but rolls down farther then that and if you pull it down all the way to get the black borders, there is a good 12" of just white screen when the image is fit to it. Is that normal on pulldown, to have so much extra actual screen? I thought just the black border would be longer, and now I can't get a black border on all sides of the screen. Almost like it's the wrong aspect ratio. It was marked 16:9 HDTV?


I could easily watch My JVC on this screen and it wouldn't be too bright, and it adds even more "pop" to the highlights during dark scenes. The illusion of perceivable contrast goes through the roof, especially when you close down the iris and maintain nice blacks.


This screen does make a very nice combo with the Mits 7900. The mits is by far a better 3D projector then the Optoma HD25e I had, and has great FI. Still surprised at how good the JVC looks for 3D. The 3D image on the JVC has more contrast, better colours, and is actually brighter then the Mits! However, the image is FAR from ghost free. It's much better then the previous JVC I had but the ghosting is still there. I also get weird motion related ghosting with the JVC, where the ghosting is only visible during motion and then disappears when the motion stops. Anyone else notice it? Of course the JVC falls apart with really hard 3D material like SBS or Top Bottom content. I think the average person will be very pleased with the JVC for 3D.


The Mits is ghost free, and is very solid in 3D and does an amazing job with PC 3D gaming, and I've also been playing 2D games converted to 3D and it works surprisingly well! Playing games like Super Mario bros in 3D is pretty awesome.

 

[Deja Vu]

Thank god you like the Mits.!


I would think the streaking you see on the screen is a defect. There is none on the 2.8 material and I wouldn't think that those on this forum with the 2.4 material would recommend the HP if this problem was common. As for brightness -- where are your projectors placed with respect to your seating position and eye height? This does make a difference.


I'm surprised that playing games with the 2D to 3D conversion doesn't increase the lag time to the point that it negatively impacts your play.


With the exception of ghosting (a real deal breaker for me) the JVC should perform better in 3D than the Mits. Why? Well, you did pay five or six times as much for it compared to what you paid for the Mits! What's really annoying about non-DLP projector and 3D is that for the most part they beat the DLPs in all respects except ghosting. When the ghosting comes along it ruins the illusion and that great image completely falls apart -- the great contrast, brightness and colours are overshadowed by an artifact that we know shouldn't be there. At some point the non-DLP manufacturers will get it right. We just haven't got there yet.

 

[kwk2293]



Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48  /t/1517605/da-lite-hp-2-4-visible-s...rs4910-mits-7900-3d-impressions#post_24351568


So, I got my HP screen and while I love the extra brightness, I have noticed streaks all over the screen. I'm coming from a carada BW screen and it has no texture at all.


Is it common for HP screens to have streaks? It kinda looks like vertical banding you would see on LCD flat panels. I have a model B 109". I thought the HP surface was supposed to be texture free, but the streaks/bands are mostly on the right side and noticeable on mainly light or white coloured backgrounds.


Also, I thought the screen would be smoother to the touch. The carada is very smooth, but the HP has a slight grain to the material. While it is brighter then the Carada, it doesn't seem 2 x brighter. On the box it just said High Gain. Could they have shipped the wrong material? The screen is marked as 109" but rolls down farther then that and if you pull it down all the way to get the black borders, there is a good 12" of just white screen when the image is fit to it. Is that normal on pulldown, to have so much extra actual screen? I thought just the black border would be longer, and now I can't get a black border on all sides of the screen. Almost like it's the wrong aspect ratio. It was marked 16:9 HDTV?


I could easily watch My JVC on this screen and it wouldn't be too bright, and it adds even more "pop" to the highlights during dark scenes. The illusion of perceivable contrast goes through the roof, especially when you close down the iris and maintain nice blacks.


This screen does make a very nice combo with the Mits 7900. The mits is by far a better 3D projector then the Optoma HD25e I had, and has great FI. Still surprised at how good the JVC looks for 3D. The 3D image on the JVC has more contrast, better colours, and is actually brighter then the Mits! However, the image is FAR from ghost free. It's much better then the previous JVC I had but the ghosting is still there. I also get weird motion related ghosting with the JVC, where the ghosting is only visible during motion and then disappears when the motion stops. Anyone else notice it? Of course the JVC falls apart with really hard 3D material like SBS or Top Bottom content. I think the average person will be very pleased with the JVC for 3D.


The Mits is ghost free, and is very solid in 3D and does an amazing job with PC 3D gaming, and I've also been playing 2D games converted to 3D and it works surprisingly well! Playing games like Super Mario bros in 3D is pretty awesome.

i would send it back my first 2.4 hp screen had really bad banding on it second one was a lot better

 

[Jeff J]

Conan,

I have a da-lite contour electrol with 2.4 material that is now just under 3 years old. The streaks/banding have been getting worse as it ages…


I don’t remember any streaks when I first received the screen, then would notice streaks only on bright/high APL material and now it is pretty easily visible on most material. There are two significant bands…about 1/3 from the top and closer to the bottom.


I was thinking that this was just a side effect of the electric screen and that I was out of luck with it being 3 years old. Does DaLite recognize streaks as a known defect?
This page shows a 5 year warranty…anyone have any experience with a warranty claim with DaLite?

 

[GoCaboNow]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff J  /t/1517605/da-lite-hp-2-4-visible-s...-mits-7900-3d-impressions/0_100#post_24353812


Conan,

I have a da-lite contour electrol with 2.4 material that is now just under 3 years old. The streaks/banding have been getting worse as it ages…


I don’t remember any streaks when I first received the screen, then would notice streaks only on bright/high APL material and now it is pretty easily visible on most material. There are two significant bands…about 1/3 from the top and closer to the bottom.


I was thinking that this was just a side effect of the electric screen and that I was out of luck with it being 3 years old. Does DaLite recognize streaks as a known defect?
This page shows a 5 year warranty…anyone have any experience with a warranty claim with DaLite?

Are the streaks always in the same spot(s)?

 

[conan48]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu  /t/1517605/da-lite-hp-2-4-visible-s...rs4910-mits-7900-3d-impressions#post_24351630


Thank god you like the Mits.!


I would think the streaking you see on the screen is a defect. There is none on the 2.8 material and I wouldn't think that those on this forum with the 2.4 material would recommend the HP if this problem was common. As for brightness -- where are your projectors placed with respect to your seating position and eye height? This does make a difference.


I'm surprised that playing games with the 2D to 3D conversion doesn't increase the lag time to the point that it negatively impacts your play.


With the exception of ghosting (a real deal breaker for me) the JVC should perform better in 3D than the Mits. Why? Well, you did pay five or six times as much for it compared to what you paid for the Mits! What's really annoying about non-DLP projector and 3D is that for the most part they beat the DLPs in all respects except ghosting. When the ghosting comes along it ruins the illusion and that great image completely falls apart -- the great contrast, brightness and colours are overshadowed by an artifact that we know shouldn't be there. At some point the non-DLP manufacturers will get it right. We just haven't got there yet.

I've placed the Mits on a stand very close to eye height and it's a nice improvement in brightness but doesn't seem to be 2 times brighter then my Carada. Still, it makes 3D more enjoyable.


The main advantage of the JVC in 3D is the same advantage it has in 2D. The contrast, especially with the iris now in 3D really has an insane amount of contrast that just destroys the Mits in 3D. The Mits has less flicker, zero ghosting, and a more solid looking 3D image. I will do all gaming on the Mits and most difficult 3D material as well. The thing is that hollywood movies have so little separation now a days that the JVC will be fine for many people. The JVC also doesn't have the annoying background ghosting of the Epson. Just don't buy the JVC thinking there is no ghosting, because it's there. It's just less obtrusive then models past.


The Mits has very little lag so adding 2D to 3D definetely adds lag but it's still playable.

 

[conan48]



Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCaboNow  /t/1517605/da-lite-hp-2-4-visible-s...rs4910-mits-7900-3d-impressions#post_24354018


Are the streaks always in the same spot(s)?

Streaks are in the same spot and can only be seen when you are getting the full benefit of the gain. I can't see any streaks when my JVC is on because it's ceiling mounted (unless I stand up) but the mits at eye level the banding/streaks can easily be seen. It looks like they applied the gain unevenly. I'll try to take some pics.

 

[Seegs108]

Yes, this is a common problem with the Da-Lite HP 2.4 material and I had a similar problem a few months back and Da-Lite rectified the issue

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1455184/hats-off-to-da-lite/0_50


Many others too had issues and it seems the QC on the screens is poor.

 

[conan48]

Thanks Seegs.


Those screenshots are pretty much what I'm seeing. I was kinda annoyed when people said that the screen was so very smooth, only to find it more like sand paper compared to my Carada. Gotta see if I can find some 2.8 material.

 

[AndyN]

Had banding I my first screen and DaLite replaced it. Great service. Sadly second screen has developed similar bands. Not sure I'm within the warranty anymore.

 

[conan48]

what is the alternative for a high gain screen with not texture, sparkles, banding, streaks, etc? Why do I always have to notice every single defect with everything I buy

Ex, I'm seeing specific ghosting related to motion on the JVC in 3D. Nobody has mentioned this yet, but I guarantee you that it's an issue that will be coming up here in the future. LOL. Does't ruin the 3D experience on the JVC but I still have to notice it.

 

[roxiedog13]



Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48  /t/1517605/da-lite-hp-2-4-visible-s...rs4910-mits-7900-3d-impressions#post_24355183


what is the alternative for a high gain screen with not texture, sparkles, banding, streaks, etc? Why do I always have to notice every single defect with everything I buy

Ex, I'm seeing specific ghosting related to motion on the JVC in 3D. Nobody has mentioned this yet, but I guarantee you that it's an issue that will be coming up here in the future. LOL. Does't ruin the 3D experience on the JVC but I still have to notice it.

Vutec is trying to get through some production issues with their 2.2 SilverStar which is ISF certified . My guess is if they can get this product in production it will be a winner. As I understand they made the first prototype by hand which was the one shown at CIDIA and it was also the one tested.

The automated production process has hit some hurdles, if they can get through that it may be a great alternative for those wanting some extra gain for a larger screen and or 3D.


Talking with everyone in the Vutec chain one would believe they could be ready within a month or two. I was on the preorder list in November and was told the exact same thing then, so who knows.


This product is angular reflective, so it may be a good alternative to the HP 2.4. The 2.4 is a good product but like every product sold it has pros and cons. In my opinion there is no "better" or "best" screen just ones

that better fit the users personal preferences or their application.


If you have some Mcgyver skills there is also the DIY SilverFire 2.5 spray on. $200 worth of paint, a 5x10 foot piece of Sintra could be painted flat curved or in a Torus shape . Reasing a lot of user posts and reviews one would believe this

is as good as anything out there if done right. I have a spray paint that will be the BD 1.4 in every way so who knows, maybe the Silverfire is descent.

 

[mark haflich]

A hand built sample is the one that get's tested by ISF. Great. An exactly what does an ISF certification mean with respect to anything other than that the manufacturer is paying Joel Silver, whoops sorry about that, ISF a royalty? What are the parameters tested and what levels or metrics must be met? Is there any screen made by any of the screen manufacturers that would fail a certification test other than a material flaw that escaped the nominal level of QC that the test sample was put through by the manufacturer. What? Do you think maybe a hand picked sample might be submitted for testing and not just a production sample with nominal; QC?


I think one thing could be safely said about an ISF certification. It will somewhat artificially make the product more expensive.

 

[airscapes]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich  /t/1517605/da-lite-hp-2-4-visible-s...-mits-7900-3d-impressions/0_100#post_24356586


A hand built sample is the one that get's tested by ISF. Great. An exactly what does an ISF certification mean with respect to anything other than that the manufacturer is paying Joel Silver, whoops sorry about that, ISF a royalty? What are the parameters tested and what levels or metrics must be met? Is there any screen made by any of the screen manufacturers that would fail a certification test other than a material flaw that escaped the nominal level of QC that the test sample was put through by the manufacturer. What? Do you think maybe a hand picked sample might be submitted for testing and not just a production sample with nominal; QC?


I think one thing could be safely said about an ISF certification. It will somewhat artificially make the product more expensive.

About as useful as saying my tomatoes are organically grown.. yup, put the seeds in organic soil and they grew.. but I can charge a few more bucks for them.. cause I didn't use any chemicals.. just cow **** and fish oil spray..

 

[mark haflich]



Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48  /t/1517605/da-lite-hp-2-4-visible-s...rs4910-mits-7900-3d-impressions#post_24355183


what is the alternative for a high gain screen with not texture, sparkles, banding, streaks, etc? Why do I always have to notice every single defect with everything I buy

Ex, I'm seeing specific ghosting related to motion on the JVC in 3D. Nobody has mentioned this yet, but I guarantee you that it's an issue that will be coming up here in the future. LOL. Does't ruin the 3D experience on the JVC but I still have to notice it.

There is one several of us have been sworn not to tell you about except in generalities. Actually there are three. Different prices but essentially the same material to address different economic sectors of the market. The engineers started with a clean slate and got a dispensation from the laws of physics. I wish I could share the exact parameters and specifications with you now. Without giving too much away, a gain level in double digits, no hotspotting at any throw ratio, uniformity in gain with a deviation across the screen of less than + /- 1 %. No color shifting. no sparklies, no pixel bleed (tested at 8K on a 100" diagonal screen to keep the pixels small). A half angle that could only exist if the screen were an active light amplifier. Whops. I might be saying too much. I could go on and on. Just one more parameter. Smoother than even Joel Silver. And if you know Joel, that is smooth, really smooth.

 

[conan48]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich  /t/1517605/da-lite-hp-2-4-visible-s...rs4910-mits-7900-3d-impressions#post_24356735


There is one several of us have been sworn not to tell you about except in generalities. Actually there are three. Different prices but essentially the same material to address different economic sectors of the market. The engineers started with a clean slate and got a dispensation from the laws of physics. I wish I could share the exact parameters and specifications with you now. Without giving too much away, a gain level in double digits, no hotspotting at any throw ratio, uniformity in gain with a deviation across the screen of less than + /- 1 %. No color shifting. no sparklies, no pixel bleed (tested at 8K on a 100" diagonal screen to keep the pixels small). A half angle that could only exist if the screen were an active light amplifier. Whops. I might be saying too much. I could go on and on. Just one more parameter. Smoother than even Joel Silver. And if you know Joel, that is smooth, really smooth.

I take it your being sarcastic? LOL. Can't tell with you Mark

Also, Isn't Silver Star glass beaded and has visible sparkles? Or is this some new material?

 

[mark haflich]

"(D)ispensation from the laws of physics". And you are staing that you can't tell whether I am joking and asking whether my post is factual? LOL


Silver Star is one of the worst screens I have ever seen. I'd take a streaking HP over that.

The gain of HP (other than a defective HP) tends to trump its faults. My problem is that many just are unwilling to recognize its faults which if one needs the gain or really is willing to overlook its faults as a trade off of having a really bright picture is to me an acceptable trade of for them. To me, it would not be..


Your screen is defective. Request a replacement. It won't cost you any thing.

 

[darinp2]



Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13  /t/1517605/da-lite-hp-2-4-visible-s...rs4910-mits-7900-3d-impressions#post_24356482


Vutec is trying to get through some production issues with their 2.2 SilverStar which is ISF certified,

I wonder what gain it will have. I have a sample of their SilverStar that has a rated gain of 6.0. I measured against a 2.8 gain HP. According to my measurements and some measurements from Stewart the peak gain of the HP is about 3.1 (measuring from right by the projector). With the SilverStar sample I measured from every reasonable angle and couldn't find one that measured as high as the HP's highest value. Not sure how they determined their gain that time or this time.


I also hope this new screen is a lot less visible than their one with the 6.0 rating. That one has lots of sparklies to my eyes.


--Darin

 

[conan48]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich  /t/1517605/da-lite-hp-2-4-visible-s...rs4910-mits-7900-3d-impressions#post_24357486


"(D)ispensation from the laws of physics". And you are staing that you can't tell whether I am joking and asking whether my post is factual? LOL


Silver Star is one of the worst screens I have ever seen. I'd take a streaking HP over that.

The gain of HP (other than a defective HP) tends to trump its faults. My problem is that many just are unwilling to recognize its faults which if one needs the gain or really is willing to overlook its faults as a trade off of having a really bright picture is to me an acceptable trade of for them. To me, it would not be..


Your screen is defective. Request a replacement. It won't cost you any thing.

Sorry, the word Dispensation is above my grade level

I heard that for example Elunevision 2.4 is the same material as HP 2.4 material. Some of your post sounded legit, and I would love to know which material can be had that is high gain without sparkles.


I'm gonna contact Da lite on Monday for replacement.

 

[mark haflich]

I once spoke to the owner of Vutech about the 6.0 gain rating of the old Silverstar. I said the have angle would really have to be very very small if the gain was 6.0 and I had measured it at about 3.0. he said that what his engineers told him and was sticking to that. He gave me a free gift of a flash light or something like that. years ago. To me, it looked like viewing an old CRT rear projection set with a renticular screen.