[Fartnokker]

As promised, I did some initial subjective and completely non-scientific tests on the first 2 screen samples last night, complete with cruddy screen shots!


Before introducing the screen shots, let me give you the background info. Not having time to go get black construction paper & properly mount these things to backing boards, I just used some pieces of painter's tape & stuck 'em right on my blackout cloth screen. I arranged the samples with the Pearlescent on the left and the Video Spectra on the right, and this arrangement is constant in all the pictures. Look at the blank screen pic to see their exact location, and you'll be able to pick them out in the screen shots. Both are 12" samples mounted near the bottom center of my 106"D DIY blackout cloth screen.


For reference material, I used Spiderman 2 Superbit DVD @480i, and some HD feeds from PBS, Discovery, and ESPN (although I don't think the ESPN shots made the gallery) and took snaps using a Sony CyberShot 3.2 megapixel digital camera set in full auto mode. This obviously didn't yield the best screenshot results, but I was quite pressed for time & had to get thru this as quickly as possible. I'll try some long-exposure shots later on.


First impressions:


- The Pearlescent gave a distinct yellowish tinge to most source material


- The Pearlescent often didn't seem to have the same amount of gain as the Video Spectra, and sometimes not even as good as the (~1.0 gain) blackout cloth.


- The Pearlescent allowed a substantial amount of light to pass through the material


- The Video Spectra was bright, punchy, and detailed.


- The Video Spectra exhibited no noticable gain dropoff from center to approximately 60 degrees off-axis viewing. There was no discernable viewing cone limitation.


- The Video Spectra totally rocked, and was my hands-down winner


In my opinion, and you can't really tell well from my crappy screen shots, the black level was slightly higher with the Video Spectra than the blackout cloth, which was totally expected due to the increased gain. The black level on the Pearlescent mostly seemed comparable to the blackout cloth, but it just looked dull and lifeless overall. I had a really hard time telling myself that both of these samples were 1.5 gain material. The Video Spectra performed as well as I could've hoped, and seemed to render sharper detail than the blackout cloth screen material I have. As for the presence of "sparklies," I thought I might've caught a little bit once or twice on both screen samples, but neither was very noticeable and certainly not objectionable. Since I'll be moving to a larger screen & lowering my foot-lamberts, I'm sure the effect will be even less.



Although I did a half-a$$ed job of tacking the samples up on the screen, it was apparent that the Pearlescent material just didn't have the same properties as the Video Spectra, and seemed to be no better (and often worse) than the blackout cloth, to my eyes. The Video Spectra was a drastic improvement in detail, brightness, and punch - to such an extent that the screenshots I've provided do it no justice at all. My wife walked in, looked for about 15 seconds, and said "The one on the right is so much brighter and nicer-looking." 'Nuff said.


I'm now awaiting the High-Power sample, and will hopefully have time to get some black backing and do a good A/B/C comparison, with D being my existing blackout cloth screen as reference.


The screenshots are in my gallery:
http://gallery.avsforum.com/showgall...ppuser=7464177


edit: projector is InFocus SP-4805

 

[newfmp3]

very interesting. Thanks for the post


Here's my story. From the get go, I have been told that Pearl, and VS are essentially the same material. Pearl is made for tensioned screens, and VS for pull down.


So, with that information, given to me by members here and Da-lite, i never ordered both for samples.I got the Pearl.


I ended up getting more samples then I expected. I got 1 6" sample, and 1 12" sample, both clearly labelled. The 12" has appears to have more of a yellow tint to it vs the whiter 6" one. And the 6" one has more gain to it, also has a black backing. Overall, I liked the 6" sample better with more punch to it, less wrinkles, and a really good viewing cone.


So, I continue to read here, get somewhat confused with other opinions about these two materials, and I end up contacting another da-lite rep. He confirms that they basically the same material, have the same reflective properties, one for tensioned, one not. But, he also said the pearl is slightly more sparkly and since I was going with a fixed frame, that Pearl is what I wanted. Hmmmmmm, I basically at this point, getting frustrated, asked him to send me a sample of the VS so I can decide for myself


This morning, it gets here. Da-lite has been very very prompt with samples. Matter of fact, I've gotten 3 shipments from da-lite before Draper has managed to get one to me. Anyways, my sample that I got today, not labelled, looks just like PEARL, yellow'ish white. ARG.I wanted VS. This Pearl has black backing too. So, until I read your review today, I was assuming they are indeed identical, but now I'm convinced that I have not seen VS.


So, I got another friend to order both 12" pearl, and VS together this morning. That'll probably get here before the damn draper gets here too.


My quest never ends.

 

[newfmp3]

btw, are you ceiling mounted?

 

[Fartnokker]

Yes, I'm ceiling-mounted on an 8' 9" ceiling with about 6.5" drop to center of lens. That's why I'm not expecting much satisfaction from the High-Power sample. Why deal with little-to-no effective gain & a tight viewing cone (in a light-controlled room!) when I can have positive gain and a monster viewing cone? Oh, and at half the price!


Yeah, the difference between the VS and Pearlescent is night and day - both in physical appearance and performance. At this point, I'm VS all the way; the Pearlescent just looked like garbage to me. It provided unwanted coloration, didn't display the appearance of 1.5 gain like the VS did, and just generally blew chunks. I can't say enough good about the VS, though. I'll be getting some better pix up soon, I hope, which'll help illustrate this for the folks who haven't seen the samples.

 

[newfmp3]

HP is a waste of time for my setup, and my ceiling is 8', ceiling mount is around 8-10" drop. At normal seating position, there's really no gain beyond a matte white would give. with the Pearl, it got brighter as I sat down, the HP was the opposite with also a narrower left/right cone as well.


Thanks for the input though, I will be patiently waiting for my sample yet again. good thing I'm not in a rush for this screen yet.

 

[Robert Clark]

Newfmp3,


Is there a texture to your VS or pearl sample? I haven't got mine yet and that's a complaint I've seen from users...

 

[newfmp3]

not sure what you mean by texture, but it does have a sheen/sparkles. I doesn't have any more texture to it then say a Cinema vision, of Hccv. I'll see if I can get a good picture tonight.


I'm talking about the Pearl as I don't have VS yet.



Fart...nokker


How high is your screen from the floor?

 

[RDD337]

Fartnokker,


im on a budget and HCCV is expensive since it only comes on fix screen. so now im debating between VS and HCMW. since i have some ambient light the more gain the better for me which is the VS. just want to make sure if you have any experienced with the HCMW and how is it compared to VS. im planning to order this with the delux b model for extra tension. BTW does the black colored casing of the pulldown screen helps the picture quality? or white case is just fine. my wall is white color. thanks.


RL

 

[Fartnokker]

Yeah, me neither. I'd like to bump up to the larger screen, but the 106" is doing me okay for now.

 

[duo man]

Fartnokker


What a name!!


Hi i would like to know how you found the blacks to be.Do they have that greyish look to them or were they nice solid blacks.I'm really starting to like this screen but i'm hoping that the 1.5 gain wont take away from the depth of the picture.


As for my personal taeste i like a picture that pops a bit something with lots of life as long as i dont loose to much depth and still keep reasnable blacks.


Any info related to that would be appreceiated.


Thanks sp4805

 

[mbaxter]

Video Spectra is a really good surface but I can tell you guys from experience, you're going to have waves. It's unavoidable with this material because they don't sell it in tab-tensioned pull down or fixed wall screens. The black backing on the VS material makes it impossible to stretch so it's only offered with non-tensioned pull down or electric screens.


Therefore, you're almost 100% guaranteed to get waves, which will be quite visible and annoying, especially in bright scenes and when the view pans from left to right.


The only way to get acceptable performance from a Video Spectra is to cut the material off the roller and somehow affix it to your own DIY frame. I did this with decent results but it was tricky as the material doesn't stretch, so it's very hard to get it evenly tensioned and secured in place. I had to redo it twice already.

 

[Rieper]

Quote:

Originally posted by mbaxter Video Spectra is a really good surface but I can tell you guys from experience, you're going to have waves. It's unavoidable with this material because they don't sell it in tab-tensioned pull down or fixed wall screens. The black backing on the VS material makes it impossible to stretch so it's only offered with non-tensioned pull down or electric screens. Therefore, you're almost 100% guaranteed to get waves, which will be quite visible and annoying, especially in bright scenes and when the view pans from left to right. The only way to get acceptable performance from a Video Spectra is to cut the material off the roller and somehow affix it to your own DIY frame. I did this with decent results but it was tricky as the material doesn't stretch, so it's very hard to get it evenly tensioned and secured in place. I had to redo it twice already.

I have a Da-Lite Video Spectra 1.5 gain screen, Deluxe Model B with vertical tension arm (MSRP $177+shipping)... and I don't see any waves. In fact, I noticed a hint of waves on the sides upon arrival and setup, but after 2 days straight of leaving the screen down it went away. My screen is perfectly flat ever since, and looks killer.


Maybe the smaller size (45"x80" 92"Diagonal) has something to do with waves not forming. I doubt it though. I'm more inclined to think its the daily usage (pull-down, pull-up) that forms waves.


So far, I've had it permanently down since arrival (1 week now) and its perfectly flat. No waves on the sides, not even a hint. I love Video Spectra.


I guess it depends on your use. If you plan to use it EVERY single day (pull-down, pull-up) then its probably not for you. If you leave it down permanently, as a substitute for a pricier $500 Perm Wall from Da-Lite (such as I'm using), then its a perfect alternative for cost conscious buyers.



Video Spectra (1.5 Gain)


PROS


1) 1.5 Gain

2) 35-degree viewing cone (very acceptable)

3) perfectly flat, in my case

4) COST $$$$ is relatively cheap



CONS


1) Waves form for SOME owners. Buy Model B Deluxe with tensioning arm and leave it down permanently and this is not even an issue. Used once or twice a week and waves may not be an issue.



MISC


1) Angular Reflective material means its only for ceiling mount users. Table top projectors will not benefit from 1.5 gain. High Power material is better for Table top users.

 

[Ronomy]

Quote


"1) Angular Reflective material means its only for ceiling mount users. Table top projectors will not benefit from 1.5 gain."


That's not true! Angular reflective screen gives close to full gain with table mounted projector as would the retro screen. The only difference with table mount is the angle of reflected light is smaller. The retro screen reflects back to the projector so there is a difference or drop in reflected light with ceiling mount when your sitting down. With an angular screen you still get most of the gain of the screen sitting down because the light is reflected more like a mirror unlike the retro screen.


Ron

 

[mbaxter]

No, that's not true unless the table is a very low height, and the screen also mounted very low, and the audience fairly high.


Here, use this file:

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mbaxter/Screen_angles.xls


It's an excel file that lets you calculate viewing angles for angular and retrereflective screens. I guy on this forum named Michael Grant put it together. You'll find it vey helpful.


Anyway, the good thing about the Video Spectra material is the viewing angle is huge so you don't have to worry about getting in the "sweet spot".

 

[mbaxter]

Quote:

Originally posted by Rieper I have a Da-Lite Video Spectra 1.5 gain screen, Deluxe Model B with vertical tension arm (MSRP $177+shipping)... and I don't see any waves. In fact, I noticed a hint of waves on the sides upon arrival and setup, but after 2 days straight of leaving the screen down it went away. My screen is perfectly flat ever since, and looks killer. Maybe the smaller size (45"x80" 92"Diagonal) has something to do with waves not forming. I doubt it though. I'm more inclined to think its the daily usage (pull-down, pull-up) that forms waves. So far, I've had it permanently down since arrival (1 week now) and its perfectly flat. No waves on the sides, not even a hint. I love Video Spectra. I guess it depends on your use. If you plan to use it EVERY single day (pull-down, pull-up) then its probably not for you. If you leave it down permanently, as a substitute for a pricier $500 Perm Wall from Da-Lite (such as I'm using), then its a perfect alternative for cost conscious buyers.

Try projecting an all-white image to see if your screen has any waves. If not, count your blessings man - you're very lucky!


I went through two Video Spectra pull down screens (model C w/CSR). Both had waves from the start. I was told this is the norm.


I always left the screen down, by the way. It made no difference.

 

[Rieper]

Quote:

Originally posted by mbaxter Try projecting an all-white image to see if your screen has any waves. If not, count your blessings man - you're very lucky! I went through two Video Spectra pull down screens (model C w/CSR). Both had waves from the start. I was told this is the norm. I always left the screen down, by the way. It made no difference.

Well, I'm only a week into owning one, so I'll wait another month or two before passing judgement.


As to your screen... You never mentioned your screen size. Secondly, the Da-Lite Model C CSR does not have a tensioning arm in the back. So comparing your Model C CSR to my cheaper Deluxe Model B is comparing apples to oranges in my mind. While some have said vertical tensioning arm on the deluxe model B is not helpful because you still get waves on the sides, this is not the imperical truth. As I have found, it DOES make a difference in my screen. The jury is still out though, as 1 week is not enough to lead to solid conclusions.

 

[Fartnokker]

RDD337 - I've only seen a small 6" sample of the HCMW, but the difference to me was that the HCMW had slightly darker blacks, but was nowhere near as bright. The VS really pops. The black frame vs the white frame... well, a black border of any kind helps the perceived contrast, so if you have a choice, get the black one, I'd say.


duo man - the black level wasn't that different than the black level on my blackout cloth (~1.0 gain matte white) but the brightness was dramatically different. The blacks were totally acceptable to me. Something else is that if you're watching a screen for awhile, your eyes become accustomed to it and the blacks will look black to you, for the most part. Best advice I can give is to get in touch with Da-Lite and get a free sample for yourself. Make sure you ask for the 12" sample & not just get the default 6" sample.


mbaxter - my plan all along has been to affix the bare cloth, ordered cut to size from my local dealer, to a DIY frame. My current screen is a DIY frame, and while the material was a little stretchy, I don't forsee any major problems with doing it to the VS material. Did you search the DIY screen section and look into some of the very detailed guides on mounting your own screen material? Another good option is to order it with grommets (or put 'em in yourself - they're cheap!) and use nylon cord to tension the screen. One of my closest friends (my son's Godparents) own a 3 - screen commercial theater, and this is how their big commercial screens are mounted, FWIW. They use perf material for theirs, but they are also mounting 30-foot diagonal screens!


Rieper - sounds like you're hooked up, man. Congrats!


All - my testing included everything from viewing at 1 extreme side to the other, and from a seated to standing-on-a-chair viewing, and the viewing cone of this angular-reflective material is huge. The dropoff in viewing from a retro-reflective angle isn't much at all. All in all, I think this material is pretty darned spiffy.


If anyone is interested in it, I can't recommend enough that you order a sample. It doesn't cost a cent, and you can compare different fabrics in your own home theater setup.

 

[RDD337]

theres always something that come out after i made up my mind. yesterday im about 99% decided to get VS with delux b model. and now worried about what i hear about the VS fabric that will have a wave sooner than i thought. so now back from start still deciding HCMW or VS.


HCMW = lower gains but not prone to waves

VS = higher gain but prone to waves


RL

 

[RDD337]

update,


just talked to a dalite sales rep. he said "HCMW and VS are equally prone to waves. Of the two he thinks its more noticeable on HCMW surface. deluxe b model case helps minimize the waves." so im back on leaning towards video spectra. im just waiting for the samples HCCV, HCMW and VS then i will make decision.


RL

 

[Ja Phule]

I've had my HCMW for 6 months, model b pulldown 92" with CSR. I leave it down pretty much the whole time. No waves. If you you plan on keeping it down permanently then I wouldn't be worried about waves. Model C has a larger roller and will help reduce waves also.


It seems that most people who get waves get the V shaped like wave. I don't think the deluxe models with tension bar will help much in those situations.